Thank you for the feedback. What options do you have though if your original iPhone is defective and they send you a 'Replacement Device?' I mean unless you purchase a new device or request a new device?
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Apple Facing Class Action Lawsuit for Offering Refurbished Replacement Devices Under AppleCare+
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Thank you for the feedback. What options do you have though if your original iPhone is defective and they send you a 'Replacement Device?' I mean unless you purchase a new device or request a new device?
MMMMM...maybe the people who are saying this is a stupid class action work for Apple???
I've been a customer of Apple since the Newton, and have often been given refurbished products to replace items which I purchased new, and paid full price for.
A replacement should be brand new, simple. I had a major problem with my Macbook Pro, which was replaced with a refurbished replacement, same for a number of iPhones and iPads. Each time I was told that the replacement was 'as new', which is just very wrong. If I had purchased a refurbished item, then I can understand, but if I buy a new item, I would expect a new replacement, from new stock.
The only time when I received a brand new replacement was when I had my Apple Watch replaced, and I can only presume this was because not was too early for any refurbished watches to be made available.
Apple should open Outlet shops (or stores), where these 2nd hand items can be purchased. I'm sure they would make a lot of money doing so.
I have to say that I am a very loyal customer, but as Peter Griffin would say this sort of thing "Grinds my gears!!". It's not good customer service, and not good enough really. Other companies don't do it, so why should Apple?
I've been a customer of Apple since the Newton, and have often been given refurbished products to replace items which I purchased new, and paid full price for.
A replacement should be brand new, simple. I had a major problem with my Macbook Pro, which was replaced with a refurbished replacement, same for a number of iPhones and iPads. Each time I was told that the replacement was 'as new', which is just very wrong. If I had purchased a refurbished item, then I can understand, but if I buy a new item, I would expect a new replacement, from new stock.
The only time when I received a brand new replacement was when I had my Apple Watch replaced, and I can only presume this was because not was too early for any refurbished watches to be made available.
Apple should open Outlet shops (or stores), where these 2nd hand items can be purchased. I'm sure they would make a lot of money doing so.
I have to say that I am a very loyal customer, but as Peter Griffin would say this sort of thing "Grinds my gears!!". It's not good customer service, and not good enough really. Other companies don't do it, so why should Apple?
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I do not disagree.
Yet Apple is guilty of bringing this on themselves.
Years of smoke and mirrors hype... like "It's Magical And Revolutionary" a frequent refrain used by Steve Jobs when the iPad was introduced, has created a myth that Apple operates on a higher plane. Years of a very loose, extravagant replacement policy in stores, only served to perpetuate the myth.
Now right out of Apples back yard in California, where the wealthy entitled Apple using kids grew up, Apples being challenged.
One correction - from the article you linked ("full destruction"):
"After trading in a device to Apple, it’s put through several tests to determine if it can be resold on the second-hand market. Devices with too much damage or deemed unsellable are sent directly to one of the several recycling facilities throughout the world."
That should also read "warranty replacements" - if the units are found to be sound enough for resale or warranty stock, the worn components (eg. glass, casing) would be replaced - repurposing the internals.
More than a little surprised that their tear-down robot is a one-of (anywhere I've worked, every prototype beyond a clay mock-up has been one of several). Especially how much Apple loves to pat themselves on the back - fully expected they would have had an army of these at work by now.
Ultimately, we need Marvin the Martian's ACME disintegration gun to reduce our electronics to their molecular components....one day.
Only if they're unable to repair it.
However, in Apple's case they provide white box replacements on the spot in lieu of sending the defective iPhone to the depot out of convenience to the customer.
You really want Apple to start treating broken iPhones like they do with the Apple Watch and start making you send it to the depot and be without it for a week?
Be careful of what you ask for.
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The curse of the best customer service in the world.
One solution would be if the customer could choose between getting an instant refurb replacement, or waiting for their baby to be sent out to be fixed.
Another might be for Apple Stores to become as good as those iPhone fix-it shops that repair phones in less than an hour (I've used such stores several times for my daughter). Just as with those, make an appointment, come in and shop around while your phone has its bad parts replaced.
Personally, I'd guess that many/most people would choose the instant refurb anyway.
Another might be for Apple Stores to become as good as those iPhone fix-it shops that repair phones in less than an hour (I've used such stores several times for my daughter). Just as with those, make an appointment, come in and shop around while your phone has its bad parts replaced.
Personally, I'd guess that many/most people would choose the instant refurb anyway.
Yep, this thread would be much ado about nothing. Very few people can go a few hours, much less a week, without their iPhones.
There's another reason to want your current iPhone repaired, instead of getting a replacement:
Siri.
Because of Apple's emphasis on "security", our Siri voice training is only stored in Apple's servers by a device-related id.
Different device = Siri must retrain from scratch. Own more than one? You have to train each one separately.
Plenty of times I've seen friends and forum members wonder why Siri suddenly no longer recognizes them as well, and it's often because they got a different iPhone.
(I absolutely prefer Android in this case, because my voice training is stored by my user id. Google recognizes me perfectly no matter how many devices I use, old or new.)
Siri.
Because of Apple's emphasis on "security", our Siri voice training is only stored in Apple's servers by a device-related id.
Different device = Siri must retrain from scratch. Own more than one? You have to train each one separately.
Plenty of times I've seen friends and forum members wonder why Siri suddenly no longer recognizes them as well, and it's often because they got a different iPhone.
(I absolutely prefer Android in this case, because my voice training is stored by my user id. Google recognizes me perfectly no matter how many devices I use, old or new.)
Realistically this would require you to be an electrical engineer who had a chance to investigate the iPhone in question. Realistically you are drawing conclusions entirely based on hear-say and assumptions. Realistically you also lack any knowledge of the Dutch language as well as the Dutch laws.
They are both completely different cases. The USA case is about definition of a word and breach of contract (at least that's how it works in The Netherlands), the Dutch case is about breaking Dutch consumer law. You are saying that driving through red light is the same as speeding because in both cases it's a car.
(Trying to see if I can't settle this debate)
I've worked in tech a couple decades now (in NA - both US and Canada) - as long as we've been doing warranty replacements (as opposed to repairs) it's been the same. At product launch, the warranty "channel" is filled with new product - first warranty replacements get new, but once those new replacements are gone all warranty replacements get refurbished product.
This USA case - they don't have a chance in hell as this is how it has always been done in NA. Make a law to force it to be done with new product and watch your initial product pricing skyrocket to accommodate for the expense (or, warranty replacements will disappear and only shipping to the repair depot will be your option - expect to be without your device for at least a couple of weeks).
Elsewhere in the world, if you have legislation that demands new product as warranty replacement, that's what you'll be getting - but, if you look at the cost of your product vs what they pay in the US, you'll be paying a hefty premium for that so Apple still makes good margin.
I've worked in tech a couple decades now (in NA - both US and Canada) - as long as we've been doing warranty replacements (as opposed to repairs) it's been the same. At product launch, the warranty "channel" is filled with new product - first warranty replacements get new, but once those new replacements are gone all warranty replacements get refurbished product.
This USA case - they don't have a chance in hell as this is how it has always been done in NA. Make a law to force it to be done with new product and watch your initial product pricing skyrocket to accommodate for the expense (or, warranty replacements will disappear and only shipping to the repair depot will be your option - expect to be without your device for at least a couple of weeks).
Elsewhere in the world, if you have legislation that demands new product as warranty replacement, that's what you'll be getting - but, if you look at the cost of your product vs what they pay in the US, you'll be paying a hefty premium for that so Apple still makes good margin.
The problem is that most people here lack the knowledge of how businesses work, especially their finances. Anyone who has knows that there won't be any "hefty premium". There simply are too many things that affect pricing. There are limits to what people are prepared to pay for something. Go over it and you won't be able to sell the product. That may mean that you have to increase pricing globally instead of for a particular part of the world. In some cases marketshare is more important than covering costs/making a profit. Any business wants to have a continual revenue stream and exist for years and years (which means long term planning/thinking) which is why marketshare is sometimes the most important thing.
...and if you look at Apple's business model, you'll see that they really don't care about market share - they care about margin. If it were otherwise, they'd have less expensive offerings for the masses (and old product that they've long recouped their investment in being sold at slightly better pricing really doesn't count).
And if you take a closer look you'll see they do care about market share. The iPhone SE, pricing in India, the entire situation in China, the free app of the week, free iCloud without any ads, free iOS and OS X upgrades and back to school are just some examples of that but the biggest one is that they are staying within their own ecosystem as much as they can. From a profit perspective it makes much more sense to charge for OS upgrades and also to sell the OS to OEMs.
If you look at the earnings reports from Apple you'll also see that it really isn't about margin or profit. The numbers show a decline in sales and yet Apple does not continuously increase the prices.
If you look at the earnings reports from Apple you'll also see that it really isn't about margin or profit. The numbers show a decline in sales and yet Apple does not continuously increase the prices.
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At least they are re-using components, that cuts down the e-waste. If you are boasting about how environmentally friendly you are it makes more sense re-using components. I don't think anybody argues that, Apple only has to communicate it better (the fact that this case exists shows that the definition of "almost new" is still too vague for some). If they did then I think almost everyone would be fine with the refurbished devices.
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The SE was because market analysis told them there were a LOT of iPhone users sticking with their 5s (or older) because they really didn't want an iPhad!
Pricing in India and China (and other areas of the world) still isn't enough that the masses can afford iPhones - only those willing to pony up a very significant amount of their income.
Free app of the week, small free iCloud, free OS upgrades, etc - you have to have SOME benefit to the ecosystem, or who would stay??
From a profit standpoint you think it makes more sense to license their OS?! (they'd likely never sell another Mac or MacBook if they did).
If Apple really cared enough about market share, they'd be pricing their products competitively as well as incorporating features in a competitive way (rather than lagging behind in many specs).
I doubt that their analysis is different than the actual sales numbers. The device is selling like hot cakes in areas where Apple don't have much money.
This is only correct for India, people in China have far more income and are more eager to buy the more expensive iPhones. In India the issue with income is so big that Apple actually dropped prices even farther than the depth of the Mariana Trench. The pricing is below the cost estimations by several analysts so this is all about marketshare. But that is not the only thing playing in India, how about the Apple Stores? They want them there yet they are hardly to be seen in Europe where people have higher incomes.
China is a completely different story. It's not about pricing but about all the other services and the strict Chinese laws concerning internet services. If you want to be in China you effectively have to pony up a completely separate infrastructure that is in line with their Great Firewall and other internet censoring. The other problem is the Chinese protectionism (Chinese products go first and the government heavily invests in it) and the software piracy. The piracy is the main reason why Microsoft lowered the prices for Windows considerably some years ago. China is a very competitive market with a government that intervenes a lot. Apple has already had quite a few major setbacks.
Exactly so not everything will make you a profit or have a positive margin. These free items are investments and have a negative margin (lots of costs but no income).
A lot of people do not buy Apple products because of the price, some are interested in picking their own hardware but they all would like to run the software. Hackintoshes are very popular. With this move Apple doesn't really have to sell hardware, they can but then they'd have to offer something extra.
No they wouldn't because they'd loose marketshare. The market may be on the decline but it is still highly competitive. There are a lot of smartphone, tablet and computer manufacturers out there plus software that offers something similar to what Apple offers (or even more). The iPad Pro's wouldn't have existed if it weren't for Android and Windows 10 devices eating up Apples marketshare. Features like fullscreen on iOS is the exact same thing.
My iPhone just got replaced by Apple, and it feels, looks and works like it was brand new, though it did come with iOS 9.3.2. It even has that smooth oleo phobic coating (that eventually wears off after a few months). I am not complaining as I am quite happy with the level of service from Apple (my original 6S+ had numerous scratches and chips on the back).
I am not going to bother finding out if my phone is original or refurbished. So long as it works great and is indistinguishable, why so particular?
I am not going to bother finding out if my phone is original or refurbished. So long as it works great and is indistinguishable, why so particular?
