Apple Facing Imminent U.S. Antitrust Lawsuit

[Nekronos]

I don’t want to receive spam from droidheads on my Messages App.

as someone who used an android for much longer than I've used an iPhone, i get more spam on iphone than on android.

One of my biggest complaints about switching to iPhone is that the phone app is pure garbage, extremely antiquated and very much behind android.

 

[webkit]

Remember the Microsoft case 25 years ago? What happened? Just about nothing.

Internet Explorer continued to be bundled with Windows and Netscape sputtered into oblivion.

I wouldn’t say just about nothing. During the investigation, negotiation, etc. process Microsoft agreed to make a number of concessions including various business practice adjustments and compliance measures. Unfortunately for Netscape, it was too late. The justice system moves too slowly in these matters.

Fortunately for Microsoft, the ruling to have the company broken up was later reversed on appeal.

 

[webkit]

Natural monopoly.

Case is bunk. Government just being government.

You're suggesting Apple is a natural monopoly? Apple better hope they're not declared a "natural monopoly" as that could open them up to unique set of antitrust regulations including mandatory product/service level requirements, government approval on price adjustments, profit regulations, and so on.

 

[webkit]

if there wasn’t literally a gazillion other phone options I’d be like ok. But there is plenty of competition in the phone market.

This is really about the mobile operating system of which there are only two major players: iOS (which has the largest share in the U.S.) and Android. Besides, just because there are alternatives doesn't mean antitrust laws wouldn't apply or there couldn’t be a monopoly. Microsoft was declared a monopoly in computer operating systems in 1999 even though there were alternatives like Mac OS, OS/2, Linux, BeOS, etc.

 

[webkit]

Microsoft had an outright monopoly and still does in the PC market, but the government’s not going after them.

The government did go after Microsoft in the 1990s and the company was declared to have a monopoly in computer operating systems in 1999. MS agreed to a number of concessions and compliance measures during that process. There was even an order to have the company broken up but that was reversed on appeal.

Today, Microsoft's share of the desktop OS market in the U.S. is roughly the same as Apple’s share of the mobile OS market. However, it's not just about market share. The issue here is with Apple's anticompetitive behavior related to iOS.

 

[3530025]

Apple should pull out of the US market also the DOJ should build their own phone if they don't like it.

Yeah, dojPhone, nobody is building apps for that thing.

Exactly! Pull out of the US, EU, Japan. Comply only to China requests. Let's go!

Your message is perfect response to all those messages saying Apple should leave EU market instead of complying to the DMA.

 

[gnipgnop]

MS isn’t exerting extraordinary control over everything that goes on with Windows. For instance, I could release a Windows app today without paying a cent to MS.

And yet no court or legislative body has tried to set commission levels. The EU certainly didn't do it.

 

[fenderbass146]

Can't you see the pattern down the road? You might laugh now but if this bullet list continues to go on one day you will be forced to be an Apple Bank customer in order to pay for anything on their devices cause they would not be accepting payments from any other bank issued card. That's exactly how taking advantage of monopoly works.

I'm sorry that's just slippery slope garbage. There is nothing to indicate that is in anyway happening. If it does, then I could maybe see Anti-Trust issues. Even then, you don't like Apple, you don't use it. IT's really that simple

 

[gnipgnop]

What Apple did to Microsoft and xCloud was pretty much illegal as hell. They blocked it because it would kill mobile games and Apple Arcade.

Apple Arcade and Microsoft's cloud gaming product aren't really targeting the same users.

Microsoft's cloud gaming service for iOS is basically a value-added component for people that are primarily interested in AAA gaming on PCs and video game consoles. AAA games are not designed for phone-sized screens and as a result playing those games on iOS are not really going to be an adequate substitute for playing on a much larger PC monitor or flat screen TV.

 

[fenderbass146]

Did you disagree with Apple's complaint against Microsoft and how Apple wanted the government to step in to tell Microsoft how to operate its businesses?

Washingtonpost.com: WashTech

An Apple Computer Inc. executive has told a federal judge that Microsoft Corp. used its market power to pressure Apple to promote Microsoft products and abandon competing products. The pressure continued, he said, even after government lawyers filed their antitrust lawsuit against the software giant.

"Microsoft does not hesitate to use its operating system monopoly power and application program dominance to try to eliminate competition, acquire control of new markets and block innovation that could challenge its position," Avadis Tevanian, an Apple senior vice president, said in written testimony submitted to U.S. District Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson in Washington.

Tevanian's testimony was released yesterday as the non-jury trial of the Justice Department's antitrust case against Microsoft shifts its focus to the company's relations with Apple.


If we replace Microsoft with Apple, we get

"Microsoft Apple does not hesitate to use its (iOS) operating system monopoly power and application program App Store dominance to try to eliminate competition, acquire control of new markets and block innovation that could challenge its position,"...

which is all true. And people will somehow defend Apple's behavior which is nuts.

Microsoft owned 95% of the market back then, Apple does have anything like that right now. Android right now is around 73% of mobile market share. It's Apple's and Oranges so to speak.

 

[fenderbass146]

The only reason you think it's insane is because you and others don't grasp that these are the kinds of things anti-trust laws are supposed to prevent. And you as well as others will continue to think it's insane until you recognize this.

No, I fully understand it. iOS has less then 30% of the mobile marketshare. This is not an Anti-Trust issue.

 

[DesertNomad]

Land of the free indeed.

 

[fenderbass146]

except governments are allowed to impose regulations and laws governing how a company can operate, and if they break the rules, then penalties can and should be imposed.

I guess we have a major disagreement on what a Government is supposed to do. It isn't like Apple is dumping toxic sludge into a river. It isn't like they have a monopoly on mobile platforms. Big Government buecratic ******** that stifles competition.

 

[gnipgnop]

Today, Microsoft's share of the desktop OS market in the U.S. is roughly the same as Apple’s share of the mobile OS market. However, it's not just about market share. The issue here is with Apple's anticompetitive behavior related to iOS.

72% for Windows and 59% for iOS.

 

[sos47]

• How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.

I have one of these „another“ smartwatch brands. The one and only thing i complain is that i cannot reply on iMessages or Whatsapp Messages from the watch which is a restriction of iOS.

In all other disciplines my „other“ smartwatch is far superior than any AW even the AW Ultra.

i dont care about those minor restrictions but for a few people this may be important

 

[webkit]

And yet no court or legislative body has tried to set commission levels. The EU certainly didn't do it.

This issue is not really about setting very specific commissions levels but rather allowing fair market competition to help determine those levels. Apple has been preventing that from happening due to is restrictions on sideloading and alternative app stores on iOS.

72% for Windows and 59% for iOS.

My "roughly the same" comment was based on Statcounter data. Windows desktop OS share in the U.S. is around 62%. iOS mobile OS share in the U.S. is around 60%.

 

[webkit]

Microsoft owned 95% of the market back then, Apple does have anything like that right now. Android right now is around 73% of mobile market share. It's Apple's and Oranges so to speak.

No, I fully understand it. iOS has less then 30% of the mobile marketshare. This is not an Anti-Trust issue.

This would be a U.S. case and therefore apply to the U.S. market where Apple's iOS has over 60% share of mobile OS. Besides, market share is not the only thing that can determine a "monopoly" and, of course, a company doesn't have to be a "monopoly" to face antitrust scrutiny.

The reality is Apple has a dominant position in the mobile OS market in the U.S. and is rightfully being investigated for its alleged anticompetitive behavior. Time will tell how it all plays out.

 

[IceCool]

The United States Justice Department is preparing to sue Apple for violating antitrust law as soon as Thursday, reports Bloomberg. The lawsuit will be the culmination of an investigation that initially started in 2019 as an antitrust review of major technology companies. U.S. regulators have already sued Google, Meta, and Amazon.

Over the last several years, Apple officials have met with the DoJ multiple times, and the investigation has covered everything from iMessage to ad practices. Some of what the DoJ has looked into:

• How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.
  
• How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
  
• How Apple blocks financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay.
  
• Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
  
• How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
  
• How Apple restricts the ‌iPhone‌'s location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
  
• How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
  
• In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.

Apple competitors like Tile, Beeper, Basecamp, Meta, and Spotify have had discussions with antitrust investigators to voice their complaints about Apple's practices, as have big banks. According to Bloomberg, the DoJ plans to argue that Apple has used illegal practices to maintain a dominant market position, blocking competitors from hardware and software features on the iPhone.

Back in 2020, a United States House Judiciary Subcommittee investigation concluded that Apple, Meta, Google, and Amazon have the "kinds of monopolies" last seen in "the era of oil barons and railroad tycoons." The subcommittee recommended new antitrust law, but the DoJ opted to target Google before going after Apple because Apple was embroiled in an antitrust lawsuit with Epic Games.

Apple in iOS 17.4 had to make sweeping changes to the way the App Store operates in the European Union to comply with the Digital Markets Act, and it was also recently fined $2 billion in Europe for anti-competitive behavior against rival music services.

Article Link: Apple Facing Imminent U.S. Antitrust Lawsuit

90% of this is bullsh*t.

 

[fenderbass146]

This would be a U.S. case and therefore apply to the U.S. market where Apple's iOS has over 60% share of mobile OS. Besides, market share is not the only thing that can determine a "monopoly" and, of course, a company doesn't have to be a "monopoly" to face antitrust scrutiny.

The reality is Apple has a dominant position in the mobile OS market in the U.S. and is rightfully being investigated for its alleged anticompetitive behavior. Time will tell how it all plays out.

A position they earned by having a good product, not anti-trust behavior. This is typical Government overstep, but as the Fed continues to grow so does it's authority.

 

[gnipgnop]

This issue is not really about setting very specific commissions levels but rather allowing fair market competition to help determine those levels. Apple has been preventing that from happening due to is restrictions on sideloading and alternative app stores on iOS.

The classic App Store commission rates of 30% and 15% were always in line with what the rest of the market generally charged. The claims that there was something "supracompetitive" about them has never been based in reality.

https://www.analysisgroup.com/globalassets/insights/publishing/apples_app_store_and_other_digital_marketplaces_a_comparison_of_commission_rates.pdf

 

[vipergts2207]

No, I fully understand it. iOS has less then 30% of the mobile marketshare.

How much market share do they have in the U.S. where this case would be located?

This is not an Anti-Trust issue.

The DOJ says it is. But since fenderbass146 says it's not on MR forum, yeah I guess it must not be...

 

[acgmph]

Looking forward to reading what this lawsuit entails. I betcha there will be no "Apple must allow all of this free of charge" like they did with EU DMA. They will ask Apple to allow access to these technologies, but will not force Apple to make it free for others. So Apple will just charge for access, and then Epic will send their wha-wha complaints to the DOJ and Microsoft and Spotify will join them with an amicus briefing... Seeing this playing out for the next 10 or so years.

 

[vipergts2207]

A position they earned by having a good product, not anti-trust behavior. This is typical Government overstep, but as the Fed continues to grow so does it's authority.

Sorry, but we elect our representatives here to take of stuff like this. If you don't like it you're free to vote for people with your anti-regulatory worldview.

 

[gnipgnop]

Looking forward to reading what this lawsuit entails. I betcha there will be no "Apple must allow all of this free of charge" like they did with EU DMA. They will ask Apple to allow access to these technologies, but will not force Apple to make it free for others. So Apple will just charge for access, and then Epic will send their wha-wha complaints to the DOJ and Microsoft and Spotify will join them with an amicus briefing... Seeing this playing out for the next 10 or so years.

DOJ has to make a court case. It all has to be based on existing laws. So unless there is a law that says Apple has to provide something free of charge then it's not going to happen.

The EU didn't go to court. They passed new laws that said interoperability access couldn't be monetized. Big difference.

 

[fenderbass146]

How much market share do they have in the U.S. where this case would be located?


The DOJ says it is. But since fenderbass146 says it's not on MR forum, yeah I guess it must not be...

In the US it's 60%, so a little more than half. Not really an issue.

Because the DoJ says something that means it's not disputable?

In Government we trust I guess.../s

This will likely get shot down and is a waste of tax payer money.