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Apple Fights UK's Demand for iCloud Data Backdoor

surferfb said:
Except his explanation is wrong. The UK demanded Apple create a backdoor. From the article that broke the story:

The British government’s undisclosed order, issued last month, requires blanket capability to view fully encrypted material, not merely assistance in cracking a specific account, and has no known precedent in major democracies.
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Right, isn’t that what he says?


Had Apple agreed to the backdoor it would set a precedent, and governments would start going after other E2EE systems, such as WhatsApp. Yeah, no more E2EE chats.
 
Howard2k said:
Right, isn’t that what he says?


Had Apple agreed to the backdoor it would set a precedent, and governments would start going after other E2EE systems, such as WhatsApp. Yeah, no more E2EE chats.
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Yep. Misunderstood what I read. It’s been a long day 🤣
 
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Jamie0003 said:
Sure but Apple will never change otherwise. A monopoly is a monopoly and it is kinda the governments responsibility to mitigate this
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Why did Apple need to change? They were choosing to change anyway, as evidenced by the fact that USB-C launched on iPhone 15, which was designed 2 years before the EU signed anything into law.

But let's pretend for a moment that they weren't. Why was this SO necessary that the government had to force it upon them? Does it dramatically help the environment in some way? Oh, whoops, Apple has shipped a couple of billions lightning cables since its inception, all of which are headed to a garbage can now. Let's not talk about that. Surely there is some need we can find here, beyond bored tech heads that want a single cable for everything.

Spoiler: There was no need, just a government determined to take control and exert power, and an ignorant, belligerent public that allowed them to.
 
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Cirillo Gherardo said:
Why did Apple need to change? They were choosing to change anyway, as evidenced by the fact that USB-C launched on iPhone 15, which was designed 2 years before the EU signed anything into law.

But let's pretend for a moment that they weren't. Why was this SO necessary that the government had to force it upon them? Does it dramatically help the environment in some way? Oh, whoops, Apple has shipped a couple of billions lightning cables since its inception, all of which are headed to a garbage can now. Let's not talk about that. Surely there is some need we can find here, beyond bored tech heads that want a single cable for everything.

Spoiler: There was no need, just a government determined to take control and exert power, and an ignorant, belligerent public that allowed them to.
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Apple didn’t do it themselves because they were making a killing on MFI royalties. Plain and simple

If they wanted to make the switch it would have happened when they released the first usb c MacBook in 2015
 
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surferfb said:
Apple was reportedly making "pocket change" on MFI royalties, and were clearly moving to USB-C, just not as fast as some of us would have liked.
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The first USB C device was in 2015….they waited 8 years, stupidly long time if they were going to switch anyway no? Everything else had made the switch years before the iPhone did including the iPad
 
Jamie0003 said:
The first USB C device was in 2015….they waited 8 years, stupidly long time if they were going to switch anyway no? Everything else had made the switch years before the iPhone did including the iPad
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Yes. But remember when Apple introduced lightening, they promised it would be the connector for the next ten years, and STILL got raked over the coals by the mainstream media and normal users for the "money grab" of changing to a clearly superior connector.

In this instance, they were changing to a connector that is, at best, better at some things (charging speed, data transfers) but worse at others (robustness). I think it makes much more sense that Apple was being conservative about changing over their most important product's connector than they were intentionally gimping their product for "pocket change" MFI revenue, that they likely more than made up for by selling people buying new iPhones multiple overpriced USB-C cables in Apple stores.

Remember Apple did more than any other company in designing and supporting USB-C, and are advertising their flagship phones as professional cameras that require the high-speed transfer that USB-C enables. I don't think it's realistic to assume they weren't already planning to move to USB-C and very soon.

I also think the idea of writing what connectors phones have to use into law is incredibly stupid and shortsighted, but that's an argument for another post.
 
Also remember the initial complaints when Apple went to USB-C on the MacBooks?

There will always be people unhappy whether Apple makes changes or whether they keep things static. But unfortunately/fortuantely standards do change.
 
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surferfb said:
Yes. But remember when Apple introduced lightening, they promised it would be the connector for the next ten years, and STILL got raked over the coals by the mainstream media and normal users for the "money grab" of changing to a clearly superior connector.

In this instance, they were changing to a connector that is, at best, better at some things (charging speed, data transfers) but worse at others (robustness). I think it makes much more sense that Apple was being conservative about changing over their most important product's connector than they were intentionally gimping their product for "pocket change" MFI revenue, that they likely more than made up for by selling people buying new iPhones multiple overpriced USB-C cables in Apple stores.

Remember Apple did more than any other company in designing and supporting USB-C, and are advertising their flagship phones as professional cameras that require the high-speed transfer that USB-C enables. I don't think it's realistic to assume they weren't already planning to move to USB-C and very soon.

I also think the idea of writing what connectors phones have to use into law is incredibly stupid and shortsighted, but that's an argument for another post.
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What exactly is superior about lightning compared to usb c?

Don’t forget, lightning came out in 2013, USB c in 2015. Apple co developed the usb c standard, but decided to go proprietary anyway.
 
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Jamie0003 said:
What exactly is superior about lightning compared to usb c?
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In my opinion, it is better at actually being a plug and charging than USB-C is, and is more robust. (I prefer USB-C to be abundantly clear.) But that's kinda beside the point. Apple got a lot of negative press for the 30 PIN to Lightening change. So much bad press that when Apple switched to USB-C, my local paper's headline was "Apple is Changing Cables Again. This Time It's Good." They were also attacked for not just going with Micro-USB. And Lightening was CLEARLY better than both.

In my opinion, for the vast, vast, vast majority of users who do nothing but plug their phone into charge, and maybe use CarPlay, USB-C is not really an improvement. For me and you, it clearly is, but for my Mother-in-law and my wife? It's an annoyance to have to get all new cables. In fact, my Mother In Law refuses to upgrade her phone BECAUSE it had a new cable. While nerds like us appreciate USB-C for its ubiquitous nature and advantages, a lot of normal users don't care.

So it makes sense to me that Apple took its time, and did it a lot more slowly than people who post on tech forums would have preferred. And that the real reason was "we don't want to piss off normal users," not "we need that sweet, sweet MFI money" (that was reportedly "pocket change" on Apple's books).
 
surferfb said:
In my opinion, it is better at actually being a plug and charging than USB-C is, and is more robust. (I prefer USB-C to be abundantly clear.) But that's kinda beside the point. Apple got a lot of negative press for the 30 PIN to Lightening change. So much bad press that when Apple switched to USB-C, my local paper's headline was "Apple is Changing Cables Again. This Time It's Good." They were also attacked for not just going with Micro-USB. And Lightening was CLEARLY better than both.

In my opinion, for the vast, vast, vast majority of users who do nothing but plug their phone into charge, and maybe use CarPlay, USB-C is not really an improvement. For me and you, it clearly is, but for my Mother-in-law and my wife? It's an annoyance to have to get all new cables. In fact, my Mother In Law refuses to upgrade her phone BECAUSE it had a new cable. While nerds like us appreciate USB-C for its ubiquitous nature and advantages, a lot of normal users don't care. So it makes sense to me that Apple took its time, and did it a lot more slowly than people who post on tech forums would have preferred.
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Read my previous updated post. They could have switched to type c if they wanted but didn’t
 
Jamie0003 said:
Read my previous updated post. They could have switched to type c if they wanted but didn’t
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Yes, because they didn't want to anger customers. When they introduced lightening in 2013 they said it'd stick around for 10 years and were raked over the coals in the press and by normal users for a "money grab". If they had switched again in 2015 there might have legitimately been protests at Apple stores.

What honestly makes more sense:
1) Apple knows how much better USB-C is but would have never switched the iPhone for a few million of licensing money, despite marketing their Pro phones as professional movie cameras shooting 4K HDR (that by definition require high-speed data transfers)
2) Apple was being conservative, and because USB-C isn't as important for most of Apple's customers as it is for people who post on MacRumors, they just waited to make sure they hit the "10 year promise."
 
Jamie0003 said:
What exactly is superior about lightning compared to usb c?

Don’t forget, lightning came out in 2013, USB c in 2015. Apple co developed the usb c standard, but decided to go proprietary anyway.
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Only a guess but lightning is smaller so it makes sense they wanted it for their phones to save space. They moved to usb for iPad, etc. because space didn’t matter as much. Once they committed for 10 years they were committed.
 
All this grumbling about Apple changing from 30-pin Dock connector to Lightning to USB-C, but zero grumbling about the gods know how many connectors Samsung had over the years.

Anyway, why are we talking about connectors? This topic is called "Apple Fights UK's Demand for iCloud Data Backdoor".
 
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surferfb said:
Yes, because they didn't want to anger customers. When they introduced lightening in 2013 they said it'd stick around for 10 years and were raked over the coals in the press and by normal users for a "money grab". If they had switched again in 2015 there might have legitimately been protests at Apple stores.

What honestly makes more sense:
1) Apple knows how much better USB-C is but would have never switched the iPhone for a few million of licensing money, despite marketing their Pro phones as professional movie cameras shooting 4K HDR (that by definition require high-speed data transfers)
2) Apple was being conservative, and because USB-C isn't as important for most of Apple's customers as it is for people who post on MacRumors, they just waited to make sure they hit the "10 year promise."
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Anger customers? Your logic makes no sense. They could have went with type c in 2013 or waited a few years and then switched and never had to change it again. Instead they decided to change it twice (allegedly) honestly I think they never planned to switch to type c
 
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Jamie0003 said:
Apple didn’t do it themselves because they were making a killing on MFI royalties. Plain and simple

If they wanted to make the switch it would have happened when they released the first usb c MacBook in 2015
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Just simply untrue. And by the way, the MFI royalties still exist.

You really have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Jamie0003 said:
Any evidence for that claim?
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Gruber reported that:

As for the second part of the consensus thinking on why Apple has stuck with Lightning — that it’s an MFi licensing money grab — I say Hogwash. Multiple sources have confirmed for me that MFi licensing revenue for Lightning devices and cables is negligible, just a rounding error by Apple’s standards. But consider the arrogance of thinking that Apple would spitefully hold the iPhone back just for a bit of licensing revenue. That Apple would knowingly make the iPhone worse for no benefit other than their own financial bottom line. That’s bonkers.
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I'd encourage you to read the whole thing.

Apple did more than anyone to create USB-C, had already moved most of its products over. It was positioning the iPhone Pro models as professional cameras that required high-speed data transfer capabilities. The idea that Apple wasn't already planning to move to USB-C is laughable. Most people were fine with Lightening, and Apple got raked over the coals the last time they switched connectors to an obviously better one. At most USB-C is slightly nicer because others use it. They were just being conservative.
 
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surferfb said:
Gruber reported that:



I'd encourage you to read the whole thing.

Apple did more than anyone to create USB-C, had already moved most of its products over. It was positioning the iPhone Pro models as professional cameras that required high-speed data transfer capabilities. The idea that Apple wasn't already planning to move to USB-C is laughable. Most people were fine with Lightening, and Apple got raked over the coals the last time they switched connectors to an obviously better one. At most USB-C is slightly nicer because others use it. They were just being conservative.
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Apple literally designed USB C. I agree. So why did they move to lightning in 2013, when 2 years later usb C was released on the 12 inch MacBook? They knew it was the better connector, but went proprietary anyway, they could have easily have waited a bit longer.

Oh I know, royalties. Isn’t it obvious?

And when they finally did release an iPhone with USB C, this was 8 years later, an insane amount of time to wait when they supposedly planned to move everything over no? Especially their most popular product by far. It’s much easier and obvious to believe they made the switch because the EU forced them too, and makes logical sense
 
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Moderators, can you close this thread, please? It's no longer on-topic.

If people want to chat about the change of connectors they should start a new thread, not hijack an existing completely unrelated one.
 
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