Apple Files Appeal in Epic Games Lawsuit, Asks to Delay App Store Changes

[amartinez1660]

This is what I believe what happened during 2008 App Store debut. Developers really should just charge iOS users 30% more than on android. They pay more on the phone, so does everything else. Apple’s “you can’t offer different prices” ruling is the one that needs to be abolished.

WOW! this is TOTAL BS!!
The APP store needs changes now!
Tim Cook. Offshoring money. Greedy APP store policies.

START USING WINDOWS 11. I'm tired of the APPLE monopoly BS!!

The Microsoft Store is FREE. And you don't have to use it either. No one forces anyone at Microsoft. Except APPLE

The same BULL CRAP about running IOS APPS on macOS. WHERE IS IT?

GO ANDROID. GO WINDOWS 11.

GO HACKINTOSH!

Bundling them both because it is implying that things are free somewhere else.

Not an Android nor fully Windows user but it is my understanding that android also keeps 30%? So why would devs need to charge 30% more only on iOS? Missing the logic there if it is only because of the kept fee, else for what is worth, on the Mac/iOS side of things some stuff is already either more expensive or not free when on android or windows was free (mostly small tools come to mind).

Also, Microsoft Store isn’t free, it is 30% and being lowered to 12% (games I believe). And on everything else Microsoft stores (like the Xbox stores) it is still 30%. Also Microsoft got a monopoly on the Xbox store, and Sony on the PlayStation Store and Nintendo on their store… you get the idea.

So, if the above if the above is at least mostly accurate (correct me if I’m wrong), why +30% markup on iOS only? And why are we tired of specifically the “monopoly” of only one of those examples?

 

[amartinez1660]

Why? Just because you say so?

(this was in response to:
Apple should be forced to do changes in the way how they operate App Store.)

Looks like, I’m glad these type of people are not in charge of anything society/government speaking anywhere near me… there’s something that really truly rubs me the wrong way when there’s clamoring of “forcing” companies to do or work in a certain way.

Any business can reserve the right of service (i.e some business don’t deal with kids, others don’t deal with adults or pets), how to go about things, development, etc and as long as it’s not illegal it’s fair game… forcing to work in a certain way, that isn’t even intended or disconnected from what the involved parties want to go about it, probably has name and shouldn’t be encouraged.

 

[Shirasaki]

Bundling them both because it is implying that things are free somewhere else.

Not an Android nor fully Windows user but it is my understanding that android also keeps 30%? So why would devs need to charge 30% more only on iOS? Missing the logic there if it is only because of the kept fee, else for what is worth, on the Mac/iOS side of things some stuff is already either more expensive or not free when on android or windows was free (mostly small tools come to mind).

Also, Microsoft Store isn’t free, it is 30% and being lowered to 12% (games I believe). And on everything else Microsoft stores (like the Xbox stores) it is still 30%. Also Microsoft got a monopoly on the Xbox store, and Sony on the PlayStation Store and Nintendo on their store… you get the idea.

So, if the above if the above is at least mostly accurate (correct me if I’m wrong), why +30% markup on iOS only? And why are we tired of specifically the “monopoly” of only one of those examples?

I was referring to something vaguely like “don’t charge more in App Store but lower on other store for the same app” bs back in 2008, which I believe would otherwise disadvantage iOS App Store or sth.

And, “simply charging 30% more” means devs really should treat this 30% commission which THEY KNOW into their business cost calculations and charge customer proportional amount to cover the commission fee rather than eating the 30% themselves “to remain competitive”. I never said, in anywhere, that dev should take a free ride on App Store, which thousands of people yelling at me otherwise.

 

[mrochester]

What’s interesting is that people will say developers can just develop on Android if they don’t like Apple’s rules and in the very next breath say that developers just want to use Apple’s tools and services because that platform is where the money is at. If there’s no money to be made on the alternate platform then that’s not a real choice a business can actually make, which is very much an anti-trust issue.

But that’s not because Apple have done anything wrong, it’s because they’ve done something really right (attracted all the people who will spend money on apps).

The solution for this is for Apple’s competitors to start making and marketing better products to attract those customers away.

 

[FreedomPenguin]

I think gov needs to let apple operate as it is, everyone charges 30% people crying about apple not being open wall garden need to hurry and go to Android and stop trying to change my beloved iOS. I don’t want side loading in perfectly happy as it is.

it appears to me the ones who want sideloading predominately are previous Android users moved to iOS, go back and leave us alone.

Apple better stay locked. I don’t want people who are crying about choices and opening up on my ecosystem. I’d even donate to apple to fight against you people.

You have a solution, Android. Peasant system where viruses and theft on programs movie is rampant, I prefer paying for each and every item. Jail breaking barely exist but it does, people who want to open iOS, go join the losers over on jailbreak iOS forum.

I’m just giving solutions to the constant complaints. Stop trying to change iOS. Stop trying to change apple.

it wouldn’t make profit if people wasn’t happy with it. They would go to Android, I blow thousands a year on apps music and videos without a single complaint. It’s a developers choice to develop for iOS. No one’s making them

oh, and screw epic. I hope they are perma banned in the end

 

[coolfactor]

Apple is a long way from the 1984 commercial.

Not the same thing at all. 🙄

This whole thing started with developers not wanting to pay (or "give", in their minds) Apple 30% of each transaction.

I think Apple's best solution would hav been to just reduce the fee to something like 5%. Now they will likely get 0%, so how will they recover the operating coss of the App Store? Developers should not get a free ride.

 

[mrochester]

Not the same thing at all. 🙄

This whole thing started with developers not wanting to pay (or "give", in their minds) Apple 30% of each transaction.

I think Apple's best solution would hav been to just reduce the fee to something like 5%. Now they will likely get 0%, so how will they recover the operating coss of the App Store? Developers should not get a free ride.

Surely apple will just invoice them the 30% instead of taking it directly?

 

[Kierkegaarden]

You can disagree all you want, but Japan and South Korea have already forced Apple to make changes.

As far as I know, no changes have been implemented, so either company hasn’t been forced into anything.

I don’t when the Japan law goes into effect, or if it can be/will be challenged — but the South Korea law doesn’t go into effect until the President signs off on it, and I haven’t heard that he has. Even then, Apple and Google could decide to ignore the law and pay a fine.

 

[Radon87000]

I am rooting for Epic to win this one. Apple needs to be taken down a notch.

 

[mrochester]

I am rooting for Epic to win this one. Apple needs to be taken down a notch.

Epic seem unlikely to win. They are the bad faith actors that need to be taken down a few notches.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Apple is in this for blood, or so it seems. Their legal eagles, I'm guessing, think they have an appeal with some merit. Of course, there seems to be a lot riding on this particular point.

Thanks. I first read the title as Epic filed for an appeal. Yet my original thought, a quote from Chronicles of Riddick still plays out.

Kill the beast while he’s wounded!

- Vacco’s mate.

 

[Xtir]

If you drive a Ford to Walmart, and when paying for your shopping you accidentally get charged for two bottles of milk instead of one. Is your “dispute” with Walmart or the manufacturer of the car that drove you there?

When the Ford only could drive you to Walmart? When Fort charges Walmart for one bottle when you buy 3?
You tell me.

 

[Wildkraut]

Choice is being able to choose where you want to make your money and how you want to make your money. If a choice is to develop on IOS, there are terms and conditions that go along with that.

Well, yes and no, terms and conditions must comply with laws and regulations, and that’s what many countries are after now. You can’t simply set any terms and conditions you want. Laws and regulations are slowly catching up the new digital age, it’s a must, specially because most of them was set up in a time far before computers existed, and made for non-digital business.

 

[mrochester]

Well, yes and no, term and conditions must comply with laws and regulations, and that’s what many countries are after now. You can’t simply set any terms and conditions you want. Laws and regulations are slowly catching up the new digital age, it’s a must, specially because most of them was set up in a time far before computers existed, and made for non-digital business.

I’d be interested to know what laws and regulations might be introduced to make what Apple is doing illegal.

 

[Wildkraut]

You are way too optimistic the appeals process works against apple.

Yeah I’m an optimistic person, Thanks! 😜
I know this is a U.S. centric site, and non-U.S. topics tends to fall under the table. Anyway, I would not underestimate the power of the EU and Asian countries, Apple and other big corporations will get hit hard. The Epic trial is just the tip of the iceberg, but it was very important to get things rolling faster.

 

[Wildkraut]

I’d be interested to know what laws and regulations might be introduced to make what Apple is doing illegal.

I’ve posted already in here, anyway TLDR; but worth reading:

Digital Markets Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thats exactly why Tim recently went lobbying, but failed.
Wont only hit Apple!

 

[BootsWalking]

Not the same thing at all. 🙄

This whole thing started with developers not wanting to pay (or "give", in their minds) Apple 30% of each transaction.

I think Apple's best solution would hav been to just reduce the fee to something like 5%. Now they will likely get 0%, so how will they recover the operating coss of the App Store? Developers should not get a free ride.

Developers would also like the option of distributing their apps outside Apple's app store. That would solve the problem of developers getting a free ride from Apple. But wait, Apple doesn't allow them to do that either. Apple thinks they should get a cut of every app made even if Developers distribute it on their own and don't use any Apple corporate resources. Now who is the one asking for a free ride now?

 

[hans1972]

Many customers do want to have an App-like experience when consuming media content such as books, movies and music. And the media companies want to have a way to enforce DRM or technical measures to prevent copying or recording of their content. They'd rather leave and support Android than give that up.

You want to allow companies like Amazon and Netflix the freedom to run their business as they see fit and generate a profit, but you will force Apple to not run their business as they see fit and loose profit?

 

[Michael Scrip]

Developers would also like the option of distributing their apps outside Apple's app store.

If the option was there... I'd love to see the breakdown of just how many developers go that route.

Of course giant developers like Netflix, Spotify, Epic, etc are itching to do it. They already have the distribution infrastructure and payment systems in-place for their non-iOS/Apple customers.

But a one-man developer who sells a simple $2.99 iOS utility app? Is he gonna want to manage accounts with PayPal or Stripe or whatever to collect payments? And keep up with every transaction to send his commission back to Apple every month since Apple is still allowed to collect it? All that extra bookkeeping and accounting?

Or will he just let Apple handle everything in exchange for a 15% cut like he always has?

I dunno. It'll be interesting to see. Again... if the option was made available. Or forced by nations.

 

[hans1972]

I still find it surprising how emotionally involved some people become with this. These are two rich companies fighting over how they’re going to split the money we give them, it’s hard to side with any of them.

It's not. Epic wants to change how iOS works to the detriment of many users, including me.

 

[Manzanito]

It's not. Epic wants to change how iOS works to the detriment of many users, including me.

What changes do you feel will make the OS worse?

 

[hans1972]

Have you heard of a chargeback?

I don't think you know how debet cards and credit cards work in some European countries. The legal framework for debet cards is very different and you have much less protection. Also in a country like Germany a large part of the population have no credit card at all. Many have no VISA or Mastercard at all.

Secondly, you don't call the credit company, but your bank. The bank will not just issue the money back esp. if you have used a debet card. Unless it's obvious it's a fraudulent charge, you have to make a case in writing.

With Apple it's the opposite. You get the money even if there was nothing wrong and you as the customer was just an ******* who wanted your money back for some unreasonable reason.

 

[Maximara]

Should no one have to go to jail after being found guilty until they have exhausted all possible appeals processes either?

Going to jail is in regards to criminal trials and has next to nothing to do with civil trials, which is what the Epic vs Apple case mainly was. Never mind that the only point Apple lost on was under state law and being an interstate company could be ruled that it doesn't apply to them even if that is where their HQ is.

 

[hans1972]

What changes do you feel will make the OS worse?

First, I consider many developers to be bad actors and some of them have harmed me more than any other criminal in my country. I consider iOS developers a bigger threat to my well-being than any terrorist on earth.

My biggest concern is the transfer of power from Apple to developers. Many developers will use this to harm me. One example, would be sending me emails because they got my email address in the transactions in the new store.

It lessens Apple opportunity to force developers to do what's good for the user and bad for developers. Forcing app developers do not track me or making sure it's easy to cancel a subscription or forcing if you can do account creation, you also have to allow easy account deletion.

There are so many good rules Apple forces developers to follow, and we can loose all of them with multiple app stores and side loading.

Multiple stores means more complexity, having to learn to navigate new store, different kind of policies esp for complaints or getting money back. It means creating an account and entering data. Tedious. In a worst case scenario you can get upwards of hundre stores like they have on Android in China.

I can loose the ability to find all the apps in one store only.

If an extremely popular app goes side loading only, it will reduce the security of the ecosystem as a whole since so many users feel forced to do it and thus start thinking it's normal instead of something they should be afraid of.

Developers can introduce license keys if they want to.

You have to look at different stores to find the app you bought a year ago and you want to redownload it.

 

[hans1972]

Are you still in Apple’s shop when you do an in-app purchase? If I download a game to my iPhone and then pay to get additional coins what did Apple have to do with that? Nothing. But they get 30% because they only allow their payment option which they take a cut of. It’s pretty clear Apple execs decided ’free’ apps with micro transactions is a better business model than every app costing something to the end user.

Yes, but as every app is using Apple's intellectual property, Apple has the right to get money from every app. How, is pretty much up to Apple.

IAP is one way for Apple to get a commission.