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Not a fan of socialized medicine, huh?

Huge difference between socialized medicine and socialized R&D. The latter never works in a sustained way - certainly not as well as the profit motive works (the exception being when there is no profit motive).

If you eliminate patents, expensive discoveries will only be made bybthe government, because no one else will spend money that can't be recouped.

Further, in industries where reverse engineering is impossible, people will end up with indeterminate monopolies because they will have no motive to disclos their advances.
 
Right on! It's just these people could break an IRON HORSE so who care's if they whine about having to buy crap all the time he he... They had that habit as children destroying everything the touched and their parents would go get a new one but now that they have to buy it, it's Apples fault because it's so expensive... well, take care of your stuff and use some common sense or else don't break your budget buying a Mac!! If you can't afford a Mac without going broke, you don't have the money it takes to own a Mac... it's just like being with a beautifully hot female! These guy's salivate all over them but they can't keep them... they are way too much maintenance for them. This same analogy is true for everything. it's just "out of your means" so you have to compromise until you have the discipline to own expensive items.

Jesus, man grow up.
 
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seedster2 said:
You're right. Gotta protect em all!

If they let people get away with infringement then the patent is worthless. I fully understand what they are doing (just as I understand Nokia's position with their patents and Apple).

Agreed. It's Apple's obligation to protect their patent. Otherwise others will follow suit and have leverage in courts.

Ironically, all the usual suspects understand this when apple is not the party being sued. When Nokia does it, you hear ridiculous excuses about Nokia's "real" intentions:rolleyes:

That was the most annoying aspect of some posters here. They proclaimed quite openly that Nokia was 'jealous' or 'cashing in' on apples success without even contemplating the fact that a company such as Nokia must have some pretty strong patents in mobile technology being in the industry for so long.

Fast forward to this latest infringement on Apple patents and people want blood.

Having a non fanboy centric mind I do support Apple in this case fully. The design of these 3rd party adapters are exactly like the original Apple chargers. It's just a blantant copy and this is without even looking into the magsafe infringement.
 
Similar to the light spectrum, humans can only see a minor portion of it. Audio and smell falls within the same limitations. To make yourself believe that you can hear pristine audio from a device even with lossless encoding such as an iPod or iPhone you are confusing yourself. Let alone believe that you buying $200 USD headphones will sound the same as a $200 speaker system. The proximity plays a key role in the intended sound quality. I never claimed that all headphone are equal, I did however state that after a plateau in sound variances the human ear cannot pick up any more or less from sound even if it is encode beyond what humans can hear.

True. $200 headphones generally sound better than $200 speakers. A LOT better.

It would be interesting to know what you did "in the audio industry", since you apparently don't know that frequency and volume are not the same thing.
 
True. $200 headphones generally sound better than $200 speakers. A LOT better.

It would be interesting to know what you did "in the audio industry", since you apparently don't know that frequency and volume are not the same thing.

$200 headphones sound better because they can reach higher frequences (Smaller Cone) so there is less distortion. It doesn't matter if you can hear its full range, the higher it can go the better it will sound.
 
yes, again, that is what clever branding and marketing are about. fanboys were not born fanboys, their endless loyalty to this (or any other) corporation was created by the corporation's marketing and branding strategies. that is business. you seem to think someone owes you something, that you have a 'right' to buy things cheaper than they choose to sell them for. why?

personally i agree that their stuff is expensive, often too expensive for me, that however does not make them a 'bad' company.
apple seems to have 2 aims: make modern, desirable hw and sw, and make lots of money.
they seem pretty good at both these tasks
I think you're overemphasizing the "clever branding and marketing" compared to the "make modern, desirable hw and sw". For instance, I became a Mac "fanboy" (silly, useless term, but whatever) when my father bought me an original Mac in 1984. At the time, I had never heard of Apple, had never seen an Apple ad and was just getting into computers. Compared to the PC's I was playing around with, the Mac was a far more advanced and fascinating machine (and remains so today). I liked the Mac because of the product itself, not it's branding or marketing. This is true for everyone I know that owns a Mac. We continue to buy Apple products based on our personal experience, not because of ads or "buzz".

Apple's customer retention rates are very high (look at iPhone customer surveys for an example). Afaik even the best marketing in the world can't convince people that they've had a different experience with a product than they've actually had. When people make a purchasing decision based on past, positive experience, they are typically responding to real value (e.g. higher quality, superior design, ease of use) rather than merely perceived, marketing-induced value.
 
funny, both the knockoffs and apples own charger is crap. FFS its not even GROUNDED, do you realize what a crappy design that is? noise can be introduced into the chassis and into your video card, your audio card, have static build up.

just ridiculous....

also about the melting mag safe adapters, coulda saw that from a mile away, look at the gauge of the wire, you really expect it to handle the current?

the macbook takes 16.5v at 3.65Amps, that peice of crap cable isnt going to handle 3.65 amps, its so obvious to anyone that knows anything about electricity.

does apple also think that you can run 100W RMS into 2 speakers with a 50AWG cable? lol

its thin so it must be good!!! OH YEAH!!
 
i agree absolutely, i did not mean to infer this; merely meant to point out that besides offering good product and service, they manage to create desire and hysteria through branding, marketing, theatrical announcements, etc, and that this desire & hysteria, coupled with the products themselves, loosens wallets.

best
B
Actually, the desire and hysteria seem to happen organically, with little or no input from Apple. Look at the number of Apple rumors-type sites compared to Microsoft rumors sites. Apple does not support or encourage these sites and has in fact shut down one of the most popular ones (ThinkSecret). Also compare Apple's secretive behavior to other companies that routinely leak information about their upcoming products, prototypes and vaporware in an attempt to create desire and hysteria.

While you could theorize that Apple's secrecy is a marketing tactic, it seems far more likely that it's a response to the rampant copying of Apple products that goes on, which in and of itself is an interesting phenomenon that can't be easily explained away by marketing alone.

It's also worth taking a close look at the marketing Apple does engage in. It's actually pretty conventional. Their ads focus almost entirely on the product being sold. iPod commercials, for instance, are mostly product shots showing how cool-looking and simple the device is. iPhone ads are essentially just video demonstrations of the product in actual use. The Mac vs. PC ads are unconventional in presentation, but they still focus on the product by attempting to explain why the Mac delivers a better experience. Notably, Apple does not present lists of features as a reason to buy their products, but that's not so much "clever marketing" as it is an accurate representation of their design philosophy, which generally eschews feature lists in favor a superior real-world experience.

So, while I agree that Apple's marketing is very effective, I think it's secondary to their success compared to their ability to design great products.
 
funny, both the knockoffs and apples own charger is crap. FFS its not even GROUNDED, do you realize what a crappy design that is? noise can be introduced into the chassis and into your video card, your audio card, have static build up.

just ridiculous....

also about the melting mag safe adapters, coulda saw that from a mile away, look at the gauge of the wire, you really expect it to handle the current?

the macbook takes 16.5v at 3.65Amps, that peice of crap cable isnt going to handle 3.65 amps, its so obvious to anyone that knows anything about electricity.

does apple also think that you can run 100W RMS into 2 speakers with a 50AWG cable? lol

its thin so it must be good!!! OH YEAH!!

wait... they're not grounded? jesus. that's asking for trouble.
 
Actually, the desire and hysteria seem to happen organically, with little or no input from Apple.

an evolutionary process perhaps? :) i would contend that apple's keynotes, when compared to other company's are almost religious events for many people. and are directed and choreographed to be such. jobs' illness caused cultish reaction. did jobs this intentionally instigate this behaviour? no, i presume not, but his style and personna over the last 20 odd years has created this adoration. can't imagine many windows users filling forums about gates' or ballmer's health situation. most windows user don't even know who ballmer is. most mac users know who jobs is.

Look at the number of Apple rumors-type sites compared to Microsoft rumors sites. Apple does not support or encourage these sites and has in fact shut down one of the most popular ones (ThinkSecret).

yes, i agree, but the lack of info makes people guess and talk more. so far we know nothing, absolutely nothing, about a possible tablet, yet people on this and other sites are arguing about which formats and filetypes will and will not be supported. and they get pleasure from this discussion, and this pleasure creates more desire. i see people in these forums declaring they wish they could today pre-order the - as yet unannounced & possible non-existent - tablet.
now i agree that apple's computers are good, but are they so good that people are willing to order something today, even though they don't know 'what' it is, never mind read some reviews?

Also compare Apple's secretive behavior to other companies that routinely leak information about their upcoming products, prototypes and vaporware in an attempt to create desire and hysteria. While you could theorize that Apple's secrecy is a marketing tactic, it seems far more likely that it's a response to the rampant copying of Apple products that goes on, which in and of itself is an interesting phenomenon that can't be easily explained away by marketing alone.

you may well be correct about the real reasons for their secrecy, but you'll agree that secretive behaviour is also an ingredient in creating a mystique and fascination for a brand. compare movies in production, fashion collections, etc

either way, their secrecy does not do their marketing any harm, people were intrigued by warhol, who seldom said more, than "gee, really?", the less he said the more they art critics and public were intrigued. to support your point, he delivered the goods -> interesting art work,

It's also worth taking a close look at the marketing Apple does engage in. It's actually pretty conventional. Their ads focus almost entirely on the product being sold. iPod commercials, for instance, are mostly product shots showing how cool-looking and simple the device is. iPhone ads are essentially just video demonstrations of the product in actual use.

well, i would contend that exactly this makes them pretty unconventional. most ads today show people in environments, having fun with a device, possibly flirting with the opposite sex, thus showing the device somehow has magnetic powers; apples ads are - as you correctly stated - usually stylish product shots, often with a pure white background. in itself quite unusual. maybe i am wrong, please point me towards other devices which employ identical aesthetics in their commercials


The Mac vs. PC ads are unconventional in presentation, but they still focus on the product by attempting to explain why the Mac delivers a better experience. Notably, Apple does not present lists of features as a reason to buy their products, but that's not so much "clever marketing" as it is an accurate representation of their design philosophy, which generally eschews feature lists in favor a superior real-world experience.

maybe we are confusing our vocabulary here? i would say that - for precisely these reasons - it's clever marketing strategy. experience vs feature list, accurate representation of design philosophy vs images of people in discos using the device. etc

you mention in your post above that you "liked the Mac because of the product itself, not it's branding or marketing. This is true for everyone I know that owns a Mac". i agree, and i also was using a mac before i had seen an ad, the platform was recommended to me by people working in music and video, and i am well satisfied and keep buying them.
recently, however, i have been touring and meeting people who can't afford to buy an apple device (mainly eastern europe, russia, south america). during concert set up, technicians and musicians crowd around my 2 MBPs, asking questions, asking if they may "use it for a minute", meeting local students after a lecture they want to hold the iphone, try the touch screen, etc etc. they have not been using max since the 80s, they havenever even seen a mac or iphone 'in the flesh'; but they have seen every ad for the iphone, they come onto these rumour sites to keep up with developments, and send each other links to the amusing get-a-mac ads. that is the power of marketing and branding to create desire. once they reach a level of financial stability they will buy a mac, much as after the fall of communism russians fulfilled their life-long dream to smoke "real marlboro", despite the fact that their own cigarettes were of similar quality.

i hope we can agree that apple make splendid devices, and that their advertising and communication strategies help give them an air of "specialness for many people, which helps keep people loyal to a brand known for its reliability and excellent design?
 
funny, both the knockoffs and apples own charger is crap. FFS its not even GROUNDED, do you realize what a crappy design that is? noise can be introduced into the chassis and into your video card, your audio card, have static build up.

just ridiculous....

also about the melting mag safe adapters, coulda saw that from a mile away, look at the gauge of the wire, you really expect it to handle the current?

the macbook takes 16.5v at 3.65Amps, that peice of crap cable isnt going to handle 3.65 amps, its so obvious to anyone that knows anything about electricity.

does apple also think that you can run 100W RMS into 2 speakers with a 50AWG cable? lol

its thin so it must be good!!! OH YEAH!!


the-largest.bmp




http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1630

If you are using the two-prong 'Duckhead' connector for your MagSafe adapter and you find the cable barely reaches, switch to the three-prong, grounded connector to improve the reach of the cable and reduce strain. Figure 6 shows the length of the adapter with the Duckhead and Figure 7 shows the length of the adapter using the three-prong, grounded connector which is much longer.



HT1630_7.jpg


The 3 prong extension cord is included with the 60W Magsafe Power Adapter.
 
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1630

If you are using the two-prong 'Duckhead' connector for your MagSafe adapter and you find the cable barely reaches, switch to the three-prong, grounded connector to improve the reach of the cable and reduce strain. Figure 6 shows the length of the adapter with the Duckhead and Figure 7 shows the length of the adapter using the three-prong, grounded connector which is much longer.



HT1630_7.jpg

Don't try responding to the "apple tax" spewers with facts. That never works. Just smile and nod.
 
FROM UNBOXING OF 2009 MACBOOK PRO.

But your third prong isn't connected to anything - it's a putz. (only two contacts on the female end of the cord).

If there's a hidden ground contact on the brick that connects with the earthed plug, please post a picture and accept my apologizes.

And, by the way, Lenovo and Asus adaptors are two prong without any earthing - and they aren't even polarized two prong plugs.

Also, look at the concept of transformer isolation, it's possible to be protected from earthing issues without being earthed.
 
Attach three prong cord (via the *other* end) to adapter.

Please show where the female end of the earthed cord has a third contact to a third male on the adaptor.

The picture you posted shows nothing, and the other pictures don't make an earthed connection obvious. I'm more than willing to believe that it's there, but please post the evidence.

But I'll also continue to point out that Lenovo and Asus (and probably others, like the UL) believe that you can protect against earthing problems with a non-polarized two pronged plug. It depends on the design of the brick.

BTW, I'm trying to defend Apple by saying that non-earthed power bricks can be safe. Put the tin foil hats back in the hat box.
 
Please show where the female end of the earthed cord has a third contact to a third male on the adaptor.

The picture you posted shows nothing, and the other pictures don't make an earthed connection obvious. I'm more than willing to believe that it's there, but please post the evidence.

This is standard on Macbook Pros.

Discussion here.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=3272



Here's mine:

photomo.jpg



photodw.jpg



I think it's nice to be able to switch them out.
 
This is standard on Macbook Pros...

Why post photos of the two prong adaptor?

My question is "where is the third contact on the three prong plug to enable the earth connection to the brick"? Yes, we see the earthed wall plug. But if the third wire is not connected to the brick, it's a putz.

Show me three points of copper contact, and I'll quickly say that "yes, the white plastic power brick is earthed".

But I'll also defend Apple by saying that the two prong connector is not unsafe if the adaptor has proper isolation.
 
Why post photos of the two prong adaptor?

My question is "where is the third contact on the three prong plug to enable the earth connection to the brick"? Yes, we see the earthed wall plug. But if the third wire is not connected to the brick, it's a putz.

Show me three points of copper contact, and I'll quickly say that "yes, the white plastic power brick is earthed".

But I'll also defend Apple by saying that the two prong connector is not unsafe if the adaptor has proper isolation.

Most transformers are Isolated transformers. If they are mutual inductors anyway, but only earthing can protect against the damage due to Lenz's law and Eddy Currents. Why cant they use that giant knob as the earth?

---

The earth is inducted through the plastic, you know like the pre!

/Sarcasm
 
Why post photos of the two prong adaptor?

My question is "where is the third contact on the three prong plug to enable the earth connection to the brick"? Yes, we see the earthed wall plug. But if the third wire is not connected to the brick, it's a putz.

Show me three points of copper contact, and I'll quickly say that "yes, the white plastic power brick is earthed".

But I'll also defend Apple by saying that the two prong connector is not unsafe if the adaptor has proper isolation.

The unit itself doesn't need a ground as long as it is double insulated.

922-5463.gif
 
Most transformers are Isolated transformers. If they are mutual inductors anyway, but only earthing can protect against the damage due to Lenz's law and Eddy Currents.

---

The earth is inducted through the plastic, you know like the pre!

/Sarcasm

Most modern Energy Star power bricks, though, are not heavy iron transformers. They can isolate, if properly designed.
 
The unit itself doesn't need a ground as long as it is double insulated.

922-5463.gif

You are talking in circles.

What's the point of having a three conductor plug, if the third wire is a putz and the female end only has two contacts?

Is there a third copper contact on the female end?
 
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