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Apple Finally Discontinues Shake?

Shake was (and to some point, still is) an amazing tool for compositing. But over the last couple of years, it's market-share has really gone down hill. Just look at ILM, they just purchased a full site license toward Nuke.

Watching shake die off is one thing, but a company like Apple losing the number one spot with any product is definitely a surprise. Like some users already stated, even if Apple releases a state of the arch, revolutionary product, they will have to work from the ground up to regain the industry.

And about this article... why now? why officially remove Shake now? I don't know why I still have hope, but maybe Apple is planning to release this "phenomenon" in a few months to go with Snow Leopard. We will see...

Imhotep397 said:
I still think that Apple should acquire AutoDesk
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OMFG what's wrong with you????? Watching Maya getting butchered would kill me.
 
Guru74 said:
And still, AE is a pain in the... by the way, in german, "After" means anus :D So an after effect would be... a fart? (There's an app for that)
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I thought that was "Arschloch." :D

Arschloch is more fun to say, anyhow...:D
 
FSMBP said:
Unfortunately, you can't do half of what Shake offers in FCS3.

I hate how Apple neglects the "pro" users after it is the "pro" users who made Apple what it is.
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Obviously, the reason Shake was canceled was because it wasn't making enough money. Why wouldn't it be making money? Because people weren't buying it. Plain and simple. Aside from lawsuits or acts of God, the only reason companies cancel products is because they're not profitable. Apple DOES like its pro users, but not enough to have a product in the red for them, and anyone that thinks otherwise should have their head checked.

Shake is gone, there are other alternatives out there that do the same things. Take a deep breath, move on, and realize business is just that: business.
 
dbo789 said:
Obviously, the reason Shake was canceled was because it wasn't making enough money. Why wouldn't it be making money? Because people weren't buying it. Plain and simple. Aside from lawsuits or acts of God, the only reason companies cancel products is because they're not profitable. Apple DOES like its pro users, but not enough to have a product in the red for them, and anyone that thinks otherwise should have their head checked.

Shake is gone, there are other alternatives out there that do the same things. Take a deep breath, move on, and realize business is just that: business.
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So Apple does not know how to sell and develop niche software. Why bother with Shake in the first place? At the end of the day they bought a program that post-production houses liked using and they let it wither away. Did Shake have to be the iPod of compositing software for Apple to keep supporting it?
 
highdefw said:
Shake was (and to some point, still is) an amazing tool for compositing. But over the last couple of years, it's market-share has really gone down hill. Just look at ILM, they just purchased a full site license toward Nuke.

Watching shake die off is one thing, but a company like Apple losing the number one spot with any product is definitely a surprise. Like some users already stated, even if Apple releases a state of the arch, revolutionary product, they will have to work from the ground up to regain the industry.

And about this article... why now? why officially remove Shake now? I don't know why I still have hope, but maybe Apple is planning to release this "phenomenon" in a few months to go with Snow Leopard. We will see...
Click to expand...
Apple only had the number a top spot because they bought a top program at the time (and I think most places ran it on Linux anyway). It's not like Apple developed Shake from the ground up and climbed their way to the top. They bought it, probably discovered VFX was too high maintenance of a niche to be a part of, let Shake stagnate for years and finally pulled it off the shelf.

dbo789 said:
Obviously, the reason Shake was canceled was because it wasn't making enough money. Why wouldn't it be making money? Because people weren't buying it. Plain and simple. Aside from lawsuits or acts of God, the only reason companies cancel products is because they're not profitable. Apple DOES like its pro users, but not enough to have a product in the red for them, and anyone that thinks otherwise should have their head checked.
Click to expand...
Basically all of Apple's apps are loss leaders to sell hardware. The first thing Apple did when they bought Shake was to cut the price from $10k to $5k for the Apple version. If you wanted the Linux, Irix or Windows version you had to pay $10k (the Windows version was dropped fairly quickly). The next price cut was down to $3k for the Apple and $5k for Linux and Irix. When they EOL'd the program a few years ago the Apple version was $500 and the Linux and Irix versions remained at $5k. Color is even a more extreme example because before Apple purchased Color it was a $25k app. You really think that Apple could sell the FC suite for $999 if you didn't have to buy a Mac to run it on?


Lethal
 
ThuggyBear said:
I feel like a cook whose kitchen has been replaced with a bank of microwaves, surrounded by children who grin as they microwave Stouffer's frozen food, and think the being a chef is putting 3 prepackaged food items on one plate.
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I mostly agree with your overall sentiment, BUT
I defy any chef to beat the flavor and consistency of Stouffer's Macaroni and Cheese. Yes, even out of the microwave. For years I took it for granted not realizing how difficult it is to duplicate in the kitchen. Just had to stand up for Stouffer's Macaroni and Cheese. Your point still stands, though. :)

I still have hope for phenomenon. As someone mentioned, it could be 10.6 only and take advantage of some key features to help with some cross promotion. I do hope Apple lets us know soon if the follow up to Shake is dropped instead of leading us on. *sigh*
 
spritelyjim said:
After Effects is half animation / half compositing software.

The layers give it a timeline advantage that node based compositors will probably never have. But obviously node-based is desirable most of the time. Look up Mark Christiansen's AE Studio Techniques book and you'll see how he uses AE for feature films, and why that makes him valuable as an addition to a team of regular node-based compositors.

But After Effects is the best (and only) 2D motion-graphics software, ever. Combustion is out of the game. Motion is barely scratching the surface in terms of real animation functionality. I'm not saying that I love AE. I really wish someone would really compete with Adobe. In fact, let me beg for a second. PLEASE, WILL SOMEONE ACTUALLY COMPETE WITH ADOBE HERE????

Finally, this is my solution to Apple... SELL ALL YOUR FREAKIN' PRO APPS TO A DEVELOPER WHO CARES ABOUT THEM!!! I'm tired of companies like Microsoft and Apple venturing into other markets, making great products, and then seemingly abandoning them. Someone else would care about FCP and Motion and Color and DVDSP and Blu-ray integration to keep innovating in this market, but Apple is on to other things. The end.
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Someone compete with Adobe!? You're dreaming. Silverlight hasn't even scratched Flash and Corel products are a shadow of their former selves.

Autodesk needs more competent programmers though, Apple isnt it.

If I ever want to start a software business, I think I know what Industry to enter. The Pro Media industry is turning to utter rubbish.
 
I use final cut studio 2 & shake quite alot for editing and post production work. Shake had something special, it was so easy to use and setup, I loved it, i dont understand how Apple can discontinue it. Will they replace it later on with a new final cut app?, i mean everyone thinks that the Mac mini descended from the G4 cube after like 5 years, so maybe its possible who knows
 
Macminiintel said:
I use final cut studio 2 & shake quite alot for editing and post production work. Shake had something special, it was so easy to use and setup, I loved it, i dont understand how Apple can discontinue it. Will they replace it later on with a new final cut app?, i mean everyone thinks that the Mac mini descended from the G4 cube after like 5 years, so maybe its possible who knows
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Except that Shake was a good proven product and the Cube was an experimental thing.
 
I am glad I bought a copy of 4.1 a while back now.


Apple bought Shake for overall kudos/exposure.So they could say "Our software makes movies! I am pretty sure they bought Shake before the Ipod and things started coming up roses for Apple.I guess now they dont need that angle anymore,so no need for Phenomenon either.I think that may have been before Maya for OSX as well come to think of it.

Is it possible for Apple to still have been working on Phenomenon,with nothing leak out?....going by the insiders who were working on it Phenomenon was pretty much dead,or so they thought before moving on.


Motion plus Shake,that will be a bit of a monstrosity.
 
Most people are assuming that this means the end of pro VFX software from Apple, but maybe this is a precursor to a replacement being announced in the near future.

Apple have been working on a Shake replacement. Dion Scoppettuolo spoke about it on a podcast from fxguide (http://www.fxguide.com/article359.html) and Ron Brinkmann walked off the project several months ago to join Nuke development with the Foundry.

Although there haven't been any news from Apple for years, I think the creation of the ProRes4444 codec is significant.
 
ianbailey said:
Most people are assuming that this means the end of pro VFX software from Apple, but maybe this is a precursor to a replacement being announced in the near future.

Apple have been working on a Shake replacement. Dion Scoppettuolo spoke about it on a podcast from fxguide (http://www.fxguide.com/article359.html) and Ron Brinkmann walked off the project several months ago to join Nuke development with the Foundry.

Although there haven't been any news from Apple for years, I think the creation of the ProRes4444 codec is significant.
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Brinkmann clearly doesn't share your optimism: http://twitter.com/ronbrinkmann/status/2943137747:
Always been a bit amazed/amused that people continued to hope for a Shake replacement from Apple. Maybe, finally, they'll accept reality :)
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I think that pretty much puts the last nail in the Phenomenon coffin. :(
 
I think what we see here is Apple slowly killing off PRO apps, perhaps next would be Aperture and then couple years down the line we will see FCS and LS disappear into oblivion along with Mac Pro.
 
MorphingDragon said:
Someone compete with Adobe!? You're dreaming. Silverlight hasn't even scratched Flash and Corel products are a shadow of their former selves.

Autodesk needs more competent programmers though, Apple isnt it.

If I ever want to start a software business, I think I know what Industry to enter. The Pro Media industry is turning to utter rubbish.
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Maxon seems to be in a good, unbloated and thriving position right now. At the moment they seem to be in bed with Adobe, but if there was a company that could give Adobe a run for it's money, at least in an animation/compositing app niche, I think it would be them.
 
xeex said:
I think what we see here is Apple slowly killing off PRO apps, perhaps next would be Aperture and then couple years down the line we will see FCS and LS disappear into oblivion along with Mac Pro.
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What do you mean "we"? I'm not seeing this happening at all.
 
natteaap said:
As I said before, Macintosh should be renamed in to MACINTOYS. They only seem to care about a new shiny redundant phone and making waves about a tablet.
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I challenge you to find one instance about Apple making waves about a tablet. You confuse rumor sites with reality.
 
Is it possible for Apple to still have been working on Phenomenon...
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no way, it's dead. Ron Brinkmann left Apple 2 years ago and joined
The Foundry to work on Nuke. This is what he said:

Ron's ronbrinkmann Says:
February 23, 2008 at 5:53 pm
I really can’t say much about where Apple may or may not be going with future products. Although the fact that I decided it was time to move on might be a reasonable clue as to my confidence level that any alleged ‘next generation’ tool will be focused on the market (high end vfx and animation) that I’m interested in… And why I’m now working with The Foundry on Nuke…
 
snowboarder said:
no way, it's dead. Ron Brinkmann left Apple 2 years ago and joined
The Foundry to work on Nuke. This is what he said:

Ron's ronbrinkmann Says:
February 23, 2008 at 5:53 pm
I really can’t say much about where Apple may or may not be going with future products. Although the fact that I decided it was time to move on might be a reasonable clue as to my confidence level that any alleged ‘next generation’ tool will be focused on the market (high end vfx and animation) that I’m interested in… And why I’m now working with The Foundry on Nuke…
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Backstabbig mother &*(()_^%$%

;)
 
When Ron left Apple most of the Shake team left with him to go work on Nuke for The Foundry. Pretty much everyone I knew from the Pro Apps devision in Santa Monica is now working for The Foundry.

Nuke has surpassed Shake. It is significantly faster, especially on anything over a 2K plate and has much better support. The Foundry are very customer focused. We made the switch to Nuke about a year ago. ILM, Weta, CafeFX are all using Nuke now. Nuke is way better in a 3D pipeline than Shake's Multiplane node could have ever hoped to be.

After the move to Nuke is is hard to go back to Shake, it feels slow and outdated. Shake still has better optical flow tools because Apple had purchased tech from Chalice which was top notch.

We still have Shake installed on all our compositing workstations, but everyone uses Nuke now.

The Foundry are committed to to the Mac platform so expect to see great things from Nuke X and other future versions.

And to put the fight to rest there is nothing in Motion that makes it a feature film compositing app. AE is also not a feature film compositing tool, you can make it do it, but why would you? Many studios will get by on Shake till it stops working but most the major studios have or will move to Nuke, a smaller number will use Flame/Inferno (still rules commercial work but often too pricey for feature work), Toxik, and Fusion. Combustion is all but dead too.
 
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