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Apple Genius Bar Didn't Recognize MacBook Pro 3G Prototype, Apple Now Wants it Back

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xpdx said:
I hope he remembers that possession is 9/10th of the law and asks for a finders fee just under what the legal fees would be for Apple to sue him for it. I'm thinking $10K would be a good price to end it quickly.
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They would not have to sue. The police would confiscate it and pending the disposition of the CRIMINAL trial apple would be given it back.

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KOZOK said:
alphaod said:
Not everyone cares only about money ;)
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Yeah, some people care about caving to corporate will under threat of massive litigation.
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Possession of stolen property is a crime

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doberman211 said:
Apple's not going to pay him. They should, it's not like it would affect them at all anyway. Apple is turning into Big Brother (lolz anyone? first commercial? anyone?) but we already have Google for that. Apple, be nice.

Right like they'd ever read these articles.

And Apple seems to think they can just pull an auction like that. No one should be that powerful. When the trade system fails because some corp. is being a douchbag then another piece of the world dies inside me. And there isn't much there anymore.
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Yeah apple should buy back their stolen property. What planet do most of you live on?
 
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Why is everyone going on about Apple owing this guy anything? It's a prototype that was never meant for sale to the public. Apple clearly owns the intellectual rights to it and all they have to do is prove that they made it as a prototype. That's a slam dunk for Apple. They don't even have to prove that it was stolen because it was never meant to go out into the public. They own it via creation and he has to give it back. Simple?

Maybe not... let me put it in another way for you. If you created a painting and it was the only one known in the whole world. Then someone came along and took it. If you found out that someone had it later, do you think you would have to go buy it back? Not as long as you can prove that you were the one who made the painting and never intended for it be be sold.

They might offer him something, but I wouldn't count on it. He'll be lucky to not get interrogated about where he got it, as I'm sure Apple is more interested in how it got out into the wild than anything else.
 
RalfTheDog said:
If it is a prototype that was not officially sold by Apple, by definition it is stolen property.
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INAL, but that's complete BS. Just because something wasn't sold does not mean it was stolen.

In this specific case, it appears that it was an Apple employee that sold the laptop. Its a fairly safe assumption that that employee did not steal the prototype, but instead was implicitly authorized to use/test it, (or perhaps even one of the people that helped create it).

As part of their terms of employment with Apple, they likely agreed to an Intellectual Property agreement which, amongst other things, says that they agree not to disclose any confidential or proprietary information to 3rd parties (which this prototype certainly under).

The only legal misstep here was by the Apple employee that sold the machine. And the only legally appropriate consequence would be termination of the employee (Though a stern talking to/don't do it again talk is very much so sufficient imho).

Assuming all the facts are as they seem, the prototype was never stolen.
 
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wallysb01 said:
Darth.Titan said:
Apple won't pay him a dime for it. The guy bought it from Craigslist, and the seller he purchased it from probably got it via less than legal means. The guy who currently has the prototype could easily be charged with possession of stolen property, and the average Joe can't afford to go up against Apple in court.
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Given the details, I'm not sure that's true. You have to prove, or have convincing evidence, that someone has knowledge that the property is stolen to convict them of possession of stolen property. This can apply to buying things on craigslist that there is a very good reason to believe had been stolen, but I'm not sure I see any reasonable expectation for Joe here to have know this was stolen. Even the article doesn't say if it was stolen. If it was stolen, I suspect Apple may have mentioned something about that, or it might have leaked out somehow.

This has been a particularly odd story, so who knows what the real deal is. However, if this is in my hands, and I'd do just about all that is reasonable to keep it or get a fair price for it. Apple might have more money than god, but the law is the law, money can only help so much. And even if your odds are long, and you don't have much money to put into, you might be surprised what lawyers would take up the case and only ask for a portion of the fee or sale price. Beating a name like Apple in a property dispute would certainly be a huge feather in someone's cap.

Anyway, this is a lot of spitballing without too many details...
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Since apple does not sell it's prototypes it has to be stolen. Even if he did not get convicted for possession he has no rights to the property nor compensation from the legal owner.
 
marksman said:
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Yeah apple should buy back their stolen property. What planet do most of you live on?
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What is your source that proves that the property is stolen?
 
Peace said:
It has been established that it is a prototype. Apple does't go around giving/selling them. Deductive reasoning implies it was stolen given no engineer reported it lost.
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I haven't read anywhere that it was reported as stolen. Perhaps someone could provide a link?
 
Peace said:
So. Using logic and sound reasoning how do you think it got from a closed lab a few years ago to ebay ?
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I read nothing about it mysteriously disappearing from a locked lab. Perhaps an Apple engineer really did sell it on Craiglist? Perhaps Apple actually let this engineer take the laptop home? Perhaps Apple didn't keep a close watch on this because it wasn't important until it turned up on eBay?
 
Non-Disclosure Agreement

If Apple offered him nothing and just tried to take his legally obtained property, there would be a media ****-storm. Apple plays hardball, but if they truly just bullied it out of him I'm sure he would be talking to the press about it.

Would they offer him $70,000? Probably not. (Was it ever truly worth $70,000? Probably not.)

Would they offer him something, monetary or otherwise, worth significantly more than what he paid for the unserviceable prototype? Probably.

Whatever they offered him, I'm sure it was wrapped in a big fat NDA which prevents him from discussing the details with anyone. I don't even fault Apple for trying to keep the details quiet, because when the next prototype inevitably leaks they don't want to set a precedent for being extorted.

That being said, I think Apple makes a bit too big of a deal about these things. Though to be fair, the internet commentators blow every tiny detail about Apple way the f--- out of proportion. Admit it, this very community at Mac Rumors would be the first to write lengthy posts, hypothesizing what it means that Apple used X brand component over Y brand component.

The only reason this matter would be worth them intervening is if leaked manufacturing specs jeopardized relationships with current suppliers. (Perhaps they were shopping around, or perhaps they were just putting together a machine with components that were convenient at the time.)

In any case, just because Apple tested an idea in prototype really says very little about what they will actually release.

P.S. I imagine the market for built-in 3G service is relatively small. My last company used to pay for broadband USB internet cards and switched providers at one point. If the hardware was built in, we might not have had that option. My gut tells me that we will not see a 3G Macbook for awhile, if ever.
 
Apple can want it back all they want. Legally if it wasnt stolen then its Fregos and therefore he isn't obligated to hand anything back just because Apple says so.

However Apple should be prepared to buy it back. Im thinking a million dollars as way of alleviating any dis satisfaction and embarrassment caused to Frego as he genuinely purchased it and therefore is his property not Apples. Apple really are thinking they are above any laws at the moment.
At least the Chinese are knacking them right off in relation to their unreasonable behaviour when it comes to selling Apple products.

Whats Apple gonna do about it? Nothing! They cant, because in 10 years time China will be the biggest economic power and Apple knows it and given that Apple has only got greedily rich due to the fact that everything they design is made in China for absolute pittance and those making those products are being exploited by Apple I would say that no one is on Apples side when it comes to this story. :p
 
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I have an IPhone 6. Don't tell Apple.
 
Peace said:
I give up.
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You and the others are assuming the laptop was stolen and sold illegally, which may very well be the case. So far, there has been no evidence to prove that nor anything being publicly stated by Apple that that is the case. If the laptop was obtained illegally, then it is Apple's right to have it back, no ifs ands or buts about it. But if they were lax and let an employee have it, that doesn't mean it was stolen. That's all I'm saying, that is a possibility. It sure took Apple long enough to "ask" to have it returned.
 
Nice job Geniuses. Couldn't even recognize...

Man sakes alive.


Protos are not generally sold, because 1, the product is not a final & likely does not represent a product the mfg is proud of charging someone msrp for, but more importantly, for liability concerns. There's a greater risk of a Proto failing catastrophically, in this case, possibly data loss, electrical shock, or fire.

Once a prototypes primary lifecycle is up, it's not unheard of that the field tester keeps it for continued eval. It'd depend entirely on this specific employee and his arrangement w/apple.
Without facts, jumping into the role of Official Internet Judge is fun, but pointless.



...for a story with 0 comments, I'm surprised to see 3 pages of comments.
 
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RalfTheDog said:
If it is a prototype that was not officially sold by Apple, by definition it is stolen property. That is not to say there was any bad intent from the man who found it. Apple has the right to get it back, the man who found it is acting responsibly.
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No, it isn't by definition stolen. Apple doesn't have to sell it to lose their rights to it, they could easily discard it in a numbers of ways that would break any claim they have on it. You throw something in the trash once that trash leave's your possession you have no claim on it.
 
If I had this laptop and Apple wouldn't give me something really nice in return for it, It would find a very big hole somewhere and I would simply tell Apple it was lost.
 
appleguru1 said:
INAL, but that's complete BS. Just because something wasn't sold does not mean it was stolen.

In this specific case, it appears that it was an Apple employee that sold the laptop. Its a fairly safe assumption that that employee did not steal the prototype, but instead was implicitly authorized to use/test it, (or perhaps even one of the people that helped create it).

As part of their terms of employment with Apple, they likely agreed to an Intellectual Property agreement which, amongst other things, says that they agree not to disclose any confidential or proprietary information to 3rd parties (which this prototype certainly under).

The only legal misstep here was by the Apple employee that sold the machine. And the only legally appropriate consequence would be termination of the employee (Though a stern talking to/don't do it again talk is very much so sufficient imho).

Assuming all the facts are as they seem, the prototype was never stolen.
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It might not have even been an Apple employee that did that. My guess is that they dont hire Apple people to go out and collect the trash. It could also be that Apple contracted out with some company to discard their old machines, and this was included in with that. After pickup, maybe someone working for the waste disposal company found this and tucked it away. In that case, there are a ton of legal questions that arise. For example whose property is the macbook pro? Does Apple cede control of the property over to the waste management facility when they give them their trash?

If Apple handed over the prototype to a 3rd party for destruction then the laptop *probably* cannot be considered stolen. It may not even be a breach of contract if Apple doesnt explicitly state that they want the trash destroyed......

And even if they do, like you said, is receiving property that was obtained as a breach of contract illegal? Can they confiscate the property from someone not involved in the original breach?

Lots of questions here, we will probably never know the answer for sure.
 
If I read the article correctly:

I think the most interesting thing is that the guy who has the laptop now, sold the laptop to someone, and then was sued by him (taken to small claims) and forced to buy the laptop back because Apple said it wasn't an Apple product. I wonder if he will get some sort of compensation for this? Since Apple said it was a 3rd party laptop, and now Apple is asking for it back b/c it's theirs. Admittedly the guys at the retail store probably wouldn't know that it is an Apple product, but it is still an official Apple communication right?

I wonder what would happen if this went to court. Could be interesting, of course, I doubt that it will go that far.
 
Cloudsurfer said:
America never ceases to amaze me. Can Apple really legally claim it back? I don't think that would even be remotely possible over here in Europe. If you haven't officially reported the laptop as stolen or lost, you'll have to go to great lengths to proof it's yours.

At 70.000$, screw Apple. I would've sold it.
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1) Guessing you're an arm-chair lawyer? (hint: yes, if something is stolen the original owner can get it back, no matter how it's been transferred)
2) it's a prototype. It obviously belongs to Apple, and would be facile to prove, seeing as they don't sell machines with red logic boards...
 
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