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With you guys it's like, heaven forbid make a product as free and fun to use as possible.

Your argument would work for food for example, don't like butter made by A? No worries, buy from B instead. Or t-shirts, sewing machines, pizza etc.

It doesn't work in the smartphone market - it's far harder to treat this product as an exchangeable commodity that fulfills a human need, since it's significantly more expensive, for one.
Nobody cares. If you need Open system, try Android. I chose Apple for a reason.
 
I do like some things Apple is offering but I also like third party gear more than some of what Apple has to offer.

Apple is deliberately crippling the experience of others to force you to buy Apple.

It’s like buying a car where you can only buy the same tires from the manufacturer who sells the car.

The EU is only forcing Apple to open up their API’s so other manufacturers can offer the same experience.

It’s up to you if you want to buy only Apple or not and it’s called fair competition.

It has nothing to do with forcing Apple to make iOS open source. Only the API’s that communicate with the device.
Your analogy is wrong. No car manufacturer allows their competitors to use their features and their parts. Wheels are same like for example keyboard. Apple allow to use yours or theirs. But theirs work the best. If I would buy for example sport car, I can also only buy certain accessories, certain rims etc.

If you dont like it, buy some random android.
 
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You can buy a 3rd party keyboard or bluetooth controller for the iPhone too.

Interestingly, Apple does not make a keyboard or controller for iPhone.

Smart watches are arbitrarily restricted in utility in software. Apple makes one of those. I wonder why they'd limit the utility of other options?
 
Apple's CFO, stated that the EU countries make up about 7% of Apple's global App Store revenue on a shareholder call. I can't think of a reason that the EU's percentage of App Store revenue would be any different than it's percentage of iPhone revenue, and I've asked in multiple threads and not gotten a good response (just claims that he "misspoke" on a shareholder call - which ignores the fact that Apple didn't correct the record which they would be required to do on that call.)

Also, the UK and India rank reportedly #3 and #4 in by-country revenue (bigger than France and Germany, for example). Both are outside of the EU but included in Apple's "Europe" market segment.

The list of countries in Apple’s “Europe” market segment can be seen on Apple's latest 10-K on investor.apple.com - it's on Page 5 of the 2023 10-K.
I agree about people lumping the EU into "Europe" but I think the assumption that the App Store revenue would be the same as the iPhone revenue is a very bad one. The majority of people do not spend money on the App Store. I have been in that space a long time and only recently was the average user spend even $1. Average per ALL iPhone users. So assuming those percentages would be anywhere close to the same, in my opinion, is a very bad one.
 
No, but I'm grateful there's regulations mandating my home has the same kind of electrical socket as my neighbors. Means I can buy a fan from Target and plug it into my Walmart power strip. In what world is interoperability a bad thing?
Regulation is only part of the reason you have standard sockets. There were competing socket types available for installers to use once upon a time, customer sentiment and market forces had largely standardized the format before regulation was implemented. I will not dismiss the value of regulation in the process of standardization, especially in socket formats. Something to keep in mind with regard to regulating something like this. In the US the NEMA 1-15 was introduced in 1904 (or thereabout) and is still used today (120 years later), although it has been largely replaced with the NEMA 5-15 which is grounded (circa 1935). It could be argued that the reason we haven't seen a serious move to a better/safer plug is because you'd be breaking regulation and codes if you did. Companies are getting around this in some cases by adding USB to outlets, but the NEMA 5-15 is still there. and this has only happened at volume in the last few years.

Also think about where we would be today if the government had regulated tape formats. I'd love to see a 2020 version of an 8 track. :oops:

All regulation is not bad, but there is a cost that comes with it, sometimes that cost matters and sometimes it is novel. If you consider the regulatory power over pharmaceuticals then you have to understand that delays or bans on certain products have cost people their lives. Alternatively, consumers have been protected from dangerous and deadly drugs by regulatory bodies. Again, it's not all or nothing. Luckily for us, no one is likely to die because the EU forces or allows Apple to do something with a luxury product.
 
You mean like Switzerland, UK, Norway Iceland, Lichtenstein, Monaco, Ukraine, Turkey etc

Let’s be real…nobody is actually FROM Monaco or many of those other wealth safe havens. They’re just wealth friendly places that foreigners settle down in to protect their money and assets.
 
With you guys it's like, heaven forbid make a product as free and fun to use as possible.

Your argument would work for food for example, don't like butter made by A? No worries, buy from B instead. Or t-shirts, sewing machines, pizza etc.

It doesn't work in the smartphone market - it's far harder to treat this product as an exchangeable commodity that fulfills a human need, since it's significantly more expensive, for one.
It is not difficult or expensive to switch smartphones. Next time you buy a new smartphone, buy an Android phone instead of an Apple one. Done! It's also not like anyone is surprise iOS is closed. They spent years advertising the closed nature as a feature! Again, Android is open. If it is such a big deal to you: switch.

Yes I am forced by Apple to buy their gear for the best experience.
No, you are not forced by Apple to buy their gear. They are not holding a gun to your head. If you don't like the products they offer, then buy a smartphone from a competing vendor. Again, you are not entitled to have an iPhone that works the way you want it to just because you want it any more than I am entitled to have a Playstation that plays xbox games.

For example: I buy an iPhone. Apple assures that I only get the best experience with an Apple Watch. Why? Because they intentionally cripple the experience with a Garmin watch to connect to my iPhone. So while the Garmin watch is (hypothetically) better and cheaper, Apple deliberately cripples it by not allowing it to use the same API’s the Apple Watch uses. That’s not fair.
Apple owns the Operating System. It's their property! I don't think it's fair to make Apple prop up competitors by making them give away their property to others without compensation. The EU is taking away Apple's ability to differentiate its products based on feature set.

The market functions perfectly fine without EU meddling. If consumers don't like it, then they will buy an Android phone that better integrates with their Garmin watch. Again - over 70% of EU citizens already choose Android. The market is working!
 
pick a real example from a real company trying to do real competition and then it's easier to have a real discussion on the merits of why that example may or may not deserve market regulation.

Ok, I will play.

Pioneer, Sony, Kenwood, Alpine, Jensen, JVC, etc. make aftermarket car stereos that they hope will compete for space against the stereo that comes with your car. A search on Crutchfield.com for my vehicle shows the following message:


Screenshot 2024-09-19 at 12.12.27 PM.png


Honda, the maker of my car, could be said to have disadvantaged 3rd party stereo manufacturers by integrating things like climate and other car functions into the audio system.

Apply this to an EU car as a thought experiment: (2025 BMW 5 Series)

Screenshot 2024-09-19 at 12.14.58 PM.png


It is very clear that auto manufacturers have disadvantaged the 3rd party audio component manufacturers and should be called to task.... right?

Or, is all the faux outrage and regulation to be pointed only at non-EU tech companies?


P.S. - I'm fairly sure this concept exists in the EU as well but here in the states auto manufacturers sell "crate engines", these are meant to be replacements for stock engines or as performance upgrades in current or older autos. Therefore, one could say that Ford is disadvantaging the Chevrolet Performance division by not allowing full interoperability with engines from other manufacturers or allowing their ECUs to control them.

My point is, once you regulate one area into full and complete interoperability between manufacturers of different hardware or software where does it end?
 
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I'm well aware of reasonable regulations, for example in areas like product safety. But forcing Apple to be open source is not reasonable regulation. I well versed in market economics and regulatory environments.

OK so you're well versed in market economics.

You have 5 markets: digital payments, music streaming, smartwatches, video games, and smartphones. The smartphone market has devolved into a duopoly with 2 companies happy to split the market between the 2 of them. They're competing, but not too agressively - both of them are happy to hold on to the customers that they have.

In digital payments, there's a few incumbent players but they are unable to compete against the smartphone vendors who have launched their own payment standards that are tied to the hardware.

In video games, one of the major players has been kicked off one of the major platforms for refusing to pay what they see as a too high share of their revenue.

The smartwatch market has been mostly tied to the smartphone market - companies buy watches from the same company they bought their smartphone from, and cross-competition is limited.

In Music streaming, the factors driving consumer choice seem to be less driven by the catalog & music quality of the vendors and more by how well it's integrated into the hardware products.

With your knowledge of market economics, do you observe that these are all healthy markets with fair competition that will benefit consumers in the long run? Just taking a step back, how do you expect these markets to evolve over the next 10-20 years?
 
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It is not difficult or expensive to switch smartphones. Next time you buy a new smartphone, buy an Android phone instead of an Apple one. Done! It's also not like anyone is surprise iOS is closed. They spent years advertising the closed nature as a feature! Again, Android is open. If it is such a big deal to you: switch.


No, you are not forced by Apple to buy their gear. They are not holding a gun to your head. If you don't like the products they offer, then buy a smartphone from a competing vendor. Again, you are not entitled to have an iPhone that works the way you want it to just because you want it any more than I am entitled to have a Playstation that plays xbox games.


Apple owns the Operating System. It's their property! I don't think it's fair to make Apple prop up competitors by making them give away their property to others without compensation. The EU is taking away Apple's ability to differentiate its products based on feature set.

The market functions perfectly fine without EU meddling. If consumers don't like it, then they will buy an Android phone that better integrates with their Garmin watch. Again - over 70% of EU citizens already choose Android. The market is working!


Again, if they don’t like apples products and proprietary software, they should go download Linux and they will own nothing, but be happy :)
 
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This is a really stupid move, and, I will react with my wallet and ensure that I will not buy products developed in the EU anymore with the only exception being Lego, but never again a German car for example…
 
Tell me you don't understand the DMA without telling me you don't understand DMA..

The DMA is about monopolist gatekeepers, not companies in general who have the biggest share in their market...
Having majority marketshare can lead to a monopoly? Delusional take
 
It is not difficult or expensive to switch smartphones. Next time you buy a new smartphone, buy an Android phone instead of an Apple one. Done! It's also not like anyone is surprise iOS is closed. They spent years advertising the closed nature as a feature! Again, Android is open. If it is such a big deal to you: switch.

You're kind of ignoring the difficulties that come with switching platforms. All the apps, games, accessories, all things someone that switches will have to buy again.

It's like moving houses. It's as easy as closing on the new place and selling the old one. Don't worry about packing up your belongings!
 
I'm well aware of reasonable regulations, for example in areas like product safety. But forcing Apple to be open source is not reasonable regulation. I well versed in market economics and regulatory environments.
Again, the EU is not forcing/demanding to open source iOS. It is demanding that Apple opens up their API’s that communicate with third party systems.

It happened to Microsoft too. And the EU isn’t targeting Apple in particular. They target every big company that misuses their power on behalf of the customer.

If you only want to buy Apple related things, nothing changes for you.

This law only allows other companies to communicate the same way with devices. Same will hold true for Samsung.

Hypothetically: if you own a S24 Samsung but like the Apple Watch over what Samsung has to offer, you’re able to communicate the same way with your Apple Watch with your Samsung as were it your iPhone (if Apple writes the software for the Samsung). That’s fair competition!
 
Your analogy is wrong. No car manufacturer allows their competitors to use their features and their parts. Wheels are same like for example keyboard. Apple allow to use yours or theirs. But theirs work the best. If I would buy for example sport car, I can also only buy certain accessories, certain rims etc.

If you dont like it, buy some random android.
You’re speaking out of fear instead on relying that Apple is able to compete if open to others.
 
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You can get Android phone for nearly free.
The cheapest phone i could find in my area is the Redmi A3. That phone costs like $75.

A piece of cheddar cheese can be had for $2 and same goes for a kilo of tomatoes.

So overall the cheapest android phones are still at least 15 times more expensive than "nearly free".
 
Nobody cares. If you need Open system, try Android. I chose Apple for a reason.
Nothing changes with this EU law for you. You can still buy all the Apple things you want.

You’ll probably even benefit from it. Apple has to compete with third party gear from other brands. So they likely innovate faster and selling cheaper.

You should be lucky buying your beloved Apple for less money. So why the complaining?
 
You’re speaking out of fear instead on relying that Apple is able to compete if open to others.
Nope. I dont want another android like ecosystem. I dont want Apple to dedicate their resources to fulfill EC desires. Which in turn can make Apple devices/ services either more expensive or missing entirely. Like now with Sequoia or iOS 18 thanks DMA.
 
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