Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
BYD is Chinese and on there. Though this list also has Tesla as #2.

How does one measure "innovation" anyways?
The list you show is more a market capital list.

These days innovation is often measured by the amount of unique patents granted.
 
The list you show is more a market capital list.

These days innovation is often measured by the amount of unique patents granted.

From the list:

"Based on a survey of over 1,000 innovation executives who were polled in Dec 2022 and Jan 2023. Company performance was assessed on four dimensions, (1) Global Mindshare, (2) Industry Peer View, (3) Industry Disruption, (4) Value Creation.
 
No Apple has to open up any and all APIs they use for their products to their competitors

That's not what the press release says. They just say they have to enable enhanced interoperability with connected devices - it does not specify what form that takes, like mandating access to private APIs.

And your weather example is good case of why if my battery dying so fast on my phone there are reason Apple does some things the way they do.

If it's dying without a connected smartwatch, you might just have a bad battery. If it's dying with a connected Apple Watch, Apple needs to fix their products.

Weird that Android phones don't suffer from worse battery life with a connected smart watch. Even when you mix and match brands.
 
It behaves monopolistic because it only favors one company (Apple) to work communicate with iPhone iOS well. That’s intentional and anti competitive.
Which should be completely within its rights to do as long as it isn't actually a monopoly. And last time I checked, having 27% of the smartphone market doesn't make you a monopoly.

That's why we're never going to agree here - we fundamentally disagree on whether or not Apple should be prohibited from doing what the EU says it should be prohibited from doing.
 
Which should be completely within its rights to do as long as it isn't actually a monopoly. And last time I checked, having 27% of the smartphone market doesn't make you a monopoly.

That's why we're never going to agree here - we fundamentally disagree on whether or not Apple should be prohibited from doing what the EU says it should be prohibited from doing.
Yep, you’re right. Let those people who’ve studied for this make those decisions for us.

Oh wait, those are the ones who made those rules in Europe. 😂🤣😂
 
AT&T and lucent labs would disagree. Look up bell labs Holmdel New Jersey.
What are the dangers of a monopoly?

Monopolies can hurt consumers because they lead to inefficiencies, a lack of innovation, and higher prices.
 
At this point, Apple should tell the EU to GFY and pull all of their devices and let their people suffer. The demand from the customers in the EU will put the pressure on the EU to change its tyrannical approach. if the EU wants these things, build your own devices and OS and market. You don't get to dictate to another company who spends their resources and time designing a product and then levy fines because you don't like their business model. If the customers don't like it, they can go buy crappy Androids.
Seriously? “Suffer”? You, my friend, really love your phone.
 
Exactly. That is why we chose Apple.
Who is “we” and why not “I”?

I respect your preferred choice. That’s your choice out of free will. When you’re happy with that, I’m happy for you.

Can I also have a free choice and use my iPhone with whatever brand earbuds I choose?
 
Yep, you’re right. Let those people who’ve studied for this make those decisions for us.

Oh wait, those are the ones who made those rules in Europe. 😂🤣😂

They didn't study anything. They came in with a predetermined notion that Apple and other big tech firms were being anti-competitive, and then set rules based on that pre-determined notion. They didn't do any checking for findings of consumer harm, etc. Seriously, read the background behind the law.

To get you started, here's an article from a European professor:
The blueprint for the DSA was laid out in a one-sided report ordered by the Commission, and followed by a public consultation that included a plethora of loaded questions. A leak ultimately revealed that the Commission had already drafted most of the proposed legislation before it received any responses to the public consultation. In short, for Vestager and her team, the last year has merely been an exercise in ex post rationalization.
 
Last edited:
What are the dangers of a monopoly?

Monopolies can hurt consumers because they lead to inefficiencies, a lack of innovation, and higher prices.
You said monopolies hurt innovation. I gave you an example to look at an award winning monopolist. It’s clear AT&T(bell) wasn’t inefficient, didn’t lack innovation. Ah yes I agree about prices - except today the companies that emerged form an oligopoly.

Now if only apple were a monopoly and if the App Store was a monopoly according to case law. But the kangaroo court at MR have already decided apple is a monopoly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Naraxus
What company is going to spend $$ on development of a new port knowing the very tall hill to climb for it to become the new standard?

Thought experiment:

Apple invests in a new port.
Google invests in a new port.
Intel invests in a new port.
Companies X, Y and Z also invest in a new port.

Only 1 is going to win.
All will claim theirs is better and the others are terrible.
Outcome will be:

EU decides that USBC is good enough and we should hold on to the current standard, Innovation is stifled.​
Or​
EU bureaucrats will make a half baked decision on a new standard, probably based on lobbyist $$, and lock us all into their mess.​
Lesson learned for all the losers.... don't play the game. Innovation is stifled.​
The EU would have been much better off saying you can no longer use micro and mini USB versus saying you must use USB-C. One gets rid of a horrible ports; the other stifles future ports being created.
 
Who is “we” and why not “I”?

I respect your preferred choice. That’s your choice out of free will. When you’re happy with that, I’m happy for you.

Can I also have a free choice and use my iPhone with whatever brand earbuds I choose?
“We the People” 😄
 
  • Like
Reactions: 9081094
They didn't study anything. They came in with a predetermined notion that Apple and other big tech firms were being anti-competitive, and then set rules based on that pre-determined notion. They didn't do any checking for findings of consumer harm, etc. Seriously, read the background behind the law.

To get you started, here's an article from a European law professor:
Well… let Apple go to the highest court and let them fight this out. If you believe in democracy than you have to settle with the outcome.

The money Apple loses in court they’ll charge you anyway 😊
 
What company is going to spend $$ on development of a new port knowing the very tall hill to climb for it to become the new standard?

Thought experiment:

Apple invests in a new port.
Google invests in a new port.
Intel invests in a new port.
Companies X, Y and Z also invest in a new port.

Only 1 is going to win.
All will claim theirs is better and the others are terrible.
Outcome will be:

EU decides that USBC is good enough and we should hold on to the current standard, Innovation is stifled.​
Or​
EU bureaucrats will make a half baked decision on a new standard, probably based on lobbyist $$, and lock us all into their mess.​
Lesson learned for all the losers.... don't play the game. Innovation is stifled.​
Be happy they didn’t chose the lighting port as a standard 😂😂😂
 
What company is going to spend $$ on development of a new port knowing the very tall hill to climb for it to become the new standard?

Several. It's literally a meme.

standards.png
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 9081094
Nobody's explained how they're giving anything away.

As of now competing smartwatches on iOS cannot even update the weather without opening their app

If I am understanding your point correctly I would say: from my perspective Apple should not be forced to give a competitors device access to "stock apple apps" such as the weather app. The manufacturer of the competing smartwatch would need to provide their own weather source to be fed to their watch via their app on the iphone. I don't know how this really works but my thought is Apple pays someone for access to weather data, therefore Apple shouldn't be forced to give that data away for free via access to the stock app via an API. Same for any other Apple created stock app, like contacts or email or phone. The manufacturer of the competing device can provide that functionality via their own app.

From my perspective all Apple needs to do is provide a way to pair the competing device to the iPhone and allow communication between the device and competing app on the iPhone. Apple should not be forced to allow access to things like iMessage for alerts, the competing company can of course pay Apple for that access but it shouldn't be provided for free. One could argue that "free" data could/should be provided by APIs, like time, that could easily be shared with a competing device by the iPhone versus forcing it to be through the competing app.

Several. It's literally a meme.

LOL, it is easy to make jokes.

You appear to be from the US so I will ask you this: If you had an idea for a better home electrical outlet, how easy to you think it would be to get funding for your endeavor? The NEMA 1-15 has been the standard since I believe the 1960s. While it does function I am fairly sure that there are better ideas out there but no one is going to invest in them because the chances of getting a successful standards change are like winning the Powerball.
 
What if I told you lighting and USB-C are very similar and Apple did a lot of work on USB-C.
Lightning isn’t similar to usb-c. Thunderbolt is. And yes I know that Apple did a lot of work together with intel on usb-c. Also with thunderbolt. I even remember the first Mac’s to arrive with usb. Back then it was great. How time flies 😊
 
If I am understanding your point correctly I would say: from my perspective Apple should not be forced to give a competitors device access to "stock apple apps" such as the weather app. The manufacturer of the competing smartwatch would need to provide their own weather source to be fed to their watch via their app on the iphone. I don't know how this really works but my thought is Apple pays someone for access to weather data, therefore Apple shouldn't be forced to give that data away for free via access to the stock app via an API. Same for any other Apple created stock app, like contacts or email or phone. The manufacturer of the competing device can provide that functionality via their own app.

Correct. The device vendor will need to provide software for whatever capabilities their device has. Samsung, as an example, would need to connect to whatever service they choose and then send that data via their app.

From my perspective all Apple needs to do is provide a way to pair the competing device to the iPhone and allow communication between the device and competing app on the iPhone. Apple should not be forced to allow access to things like iMessage for alerts, the competing company can of course pay Apple for that access but it shouldn't be provided for free. One could argue that "free" data could/should be provided by APIs, like time, that could easily be shared with a competing device by the iPhone versus forcing it to be through the competing app.

I would argue that notifications and their actions should be accessible and actionable to apps using whatever Wearable API Apple builds. So that actions like clearing notifications or deleting an email work seamlessly. Implement a policy that these notifications cannot be transmitted to a vendor server for privacy and security reasons.

If the device vendor wants to allow replies to messages, they should need to use their own speech to text software on the device and then send the response via the wearable API. This should also reduce the phone-side impact on battery life since it would not need to stream the raw audio to the phone for interpretation.

And Apple could charge to use their own services on these devices if they want. That would make it easy for startup wearable companies.

Now that I think about it, Wearables would be an obvious way to expand the MFi program.

TL;DR: Apple should make good wearables for iOS possible, but not make it easy.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 9081094
EU citizens have the power to vote with their wallets. EU citizens have actually shown that they overwhelmingly prefer Android-based smartphones to iPhone. Apple only holds about 25% marketshare.

How is this not achieving the end you're hoping for already?
Obviously, my post about that was sarcastic. People here complain about everything except AAPL, whereas the anticompetitive bully is Tim Cook!
 
Then Apple is a dead duck in the water and consumers will buy those gear that will 😊

Fortunately, we have some many successful EU based smartwatches brands, they will really benefit from opening Apple APIs... Ah, we don't have... what a pity.

Funny, but so far, the only visible effect of DMA is feeding some American bigtechs at expense of other American bigtechs.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.