I agree wholeheartedly, and made my own slight adjustment.
Heads not in the clouds, but PC laptops have had the option for quad core mobile processors for A GOOD WHILE.
Apple is still just behind the curve as usual when it comes to hardware.
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Apple Gets Nehalem Early, h264 and VMWare Performance Boosts
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I agree wholeheartedly, and made my own slight adjustment.
Heads not in the clouds, but PC laptops have had the option for quad core mobile processors for A GOOD WHILE.
Apple is still just behind the curve as usual when it comes to hardware.
Those are using the Penryn architecture. Nehalem is a whole other deal.
I feel myself getting geekier as I type that.
True, but the PCs have had quad core for more than 6 months regardless, and I am sure when mobile Nehalem quad cores are available Apple will either be 4 months or more implementing them, or ahead of the curve for only a few months and over-charge us accordingly.
Are you referring to Clarksfield? Its TDP is 45/55 W, with 55 W being the majority. Even taking into account the extra components integrated into the CPU, much of the Clarksfields are too hot for the MacBook Pro. Therefore we may see low-end Clarksfields in the MBP, but I think they may stick with dual-core Arrandale, especially when the iMacs didn't get mobile quad-core.
Hahah! Awesome.
"Turbo boost" is a total misnomer, since it doesn't actually make anything faster, it's just makes things slower when you don't need the power.
As a side note, I think the only reason Intel let Apple have the processors first was because they agreed that Apple would overprice and lame-ify them to the point where nobody would actually buy them.
I can just imagine Dell's CEO being pissed:
Dell: WTF man, we've been friends for years and you give the new chips to Apple first? What gives?
Intel: Yes, but we don't have the production to sell to you yet, since you might put them into computers people are actually going to buy. This satisfies Apple's and Apple Users' inferiority complex, and makes them feel they're special, though the end product is practically unsellable.
Dell: Yeah, you're right, we'll just include a video card that's not the bargain card from 2007 and laugh the Mac Pros off the market.
Intel: Word. Now let's go smoke a fatty.
Just lovin' the negativitiy .....
Umm, maybe you haven't yet wrapped your head around the concept -- but Apple is gearing their product releases around what pleases the typical customer of the product. Trust me, the VAST majority of those new iMacs and Macbooks they sell are sold to people who don't know a "Core 2 Duo" from a "PPC G4".
And IMHO, that's completely ok! The personal computer has really become commonplace enough that these days, it's sold just like any other appliance out there. Do you think many people care what the specs are for the motor inside the washing machine they're about to purchase? Do you think they shop all over before buying a new microwave to make sure theirs has the latest and most efficient microwave emitter tube inside?
The things that add all the "value" to buying a consumer-grade Mac are still there. You get a superior OS that doesn't have virus/spyware hassles. You get better-quality phone support with shorter hold-times than the competition. You get retail stores you can actually "try before you buy" in, as well as getting FREE training on how to some many of the software packages. You get superior quality construction (real aluminum cases in place of cheap plastic, for example).
The Mac Pro is exactly what it's supposed to be. It's there to offer the highest-possible performance for the minority who cares and/or needs it. Most people buying them have legitimate uses for that amount of processing power that justify the high cost.
Umm, maybe you haven't yet wrapped your head around the concept -- but Apple is gearing their product releases around what pleases the typical customer of the product. Trust me, the VAST majority of those new iMacs and Macbooks they sell are sold to people who don't know a "Core 2 Duo" from a "PPC G4".
And IMHO, that's completely ok! The personal computer has really become commonplace enough that these days, it's sold just like any other appliance out there. Do you think many people care what the specs are for the motor inside the washing machine they're about to purchase? Do you think they shop all over before buying a new microwave to make sure theirs has the latest and most efficient microwave emitter tube inside?
The things that add all the "value" to buying a consumer-grade Mac are still there. You get a superior OS that doesn't have virus/spyware hassles. You get better-quality phone support with shorter hold-times than the competition. You get retail stores you can actually "try before you buy" in, as well as getting FREE training on how to some many of the software packages. You get superior quality construction (real aluminum cases in place of cheap plastic, for example).
The Mac Pro is exactly what it's supposed to be. It's there to offer the highest-possible performance for the minority who cares and/or needs it. Most people buying them have legitimate uses for that amount of processing power that justify the high cost.
Bravo. You managed to be at the forefront of the one the category most of your customers cannot afford, while leaving your consumer lines at about the same exact specs they were at this time last year.
Well, I'm sure the few Richie Rich's here may be excited, and that seems to be the only people Apple cares about these days.
I think the complaints are more about spending more and getting less or near-same performance. Also, fewer options (less RAM capacity in Quads) and some funky options which force you to pay more (≥6GB RAM forced in Octo). No consumer would want that.
I'm totally behind you on the logic: that this is what people want so that's what Apple gives them. However, it's obvious they had to make some unpleasant compromises to get Nehalem's in their machines, some of which made the old "pre-upgrade" Mac Pros a better buy.
You beat me to this post. I kind of remember loading some Pacman knockoff and every time you hit start, the next thing you saw was the ghosts on top of you. Not fun.
As for the new Pro's specs, I'm impressed, but it's not going to make me wait another year to buy the next Mini. I'll take the current one. That said, where's the "Nehalem Mac Mini soon?" thread????
Does anyone read the entire post? Even the first paragraph???
"These Nehalem Xeon processors used in the high end Mac Pros have not even been officially announced by Intel yet."
It's not even ANNOUNCED yet, let alone being sold in a Dell. Yes, Nehalem has been out for awhile now, but not this version.
As for the price, do we really have any idea how the MacPro sells? Who buys it? Who updates at every update? Marketing plays a key role in the update process, and I'm pretty sure that Apple knows what they're doing... a lot more than we do. Complain all you want, it's the best solution they could come up with at the price they could sell it at. Cause let's face it, people will still buy it.
Too many posters on this forum were disgusted with the 1 year offering of the previous Mac Pro, but now they're 'putting money back in wallet' and shunning the new model because it's 'at best' twice as fast as the old. Consumers are pathetic.
MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH BETTER.
It seems we're not math majors around here
How is that? It increases the frequency of the active cores when it shuts off inactive ones.
And by the way, when everybody is talking about fewer options, please do not forget that only slow 7200 RPM disks are offered now. Although this might be a temporary issue with the configurator…
"TurboBoost" is an interesting marketing choice. If clockspeed varies according to whether or not multiple cores are active, you could market in two ways:
1. Advertise higher clock-speed and acknowledge lower speed when multi-cores active.
2. Advertise lower clock-spped and brag about "TurboBoost".
Given the multiple Knightrider and "turbomagical" posts, i'm thinking they made the right choice.
+1.
Hey Apple - we don't care how thin you can make the iMac whilst fatally compromising its processor compatibility
Waiting till someone posts some real data on this....
To buy a whole new machine for VMWARE.... it better be 4x the speed of my current Mac Pro 2.8 Octo. Benchmarks that Apple post are really not very good....
To buy a whole new machine for VMWARE.... it better be 4x the speed of my current Mac Pro 2.8 Octo. Benchmarks that Apple post are really not very good....
Few other questions.
Does the chipset matter with this? Maybe nVidia has something up their sleeves.
Plus - is Arrandale any better than what we have now?
Is it unreasonable to think that they would downclock the CPU a bit?
I find the current line-up and direction of Apple confusing.
I have been putting off buying a new 30" ACD for some time now because the current one is a few years old and has seen no price drop for a least two years.
When Apple announced the move to mini-DP I thought that I would have to buy soon or wait until I do system upgrade (thinking the new ACD would be mini-DP).
Then this line of upgrades came and no new ACD and even quite bit from Apple on the ability to use DVI and mini-dp on the pro. I appreciate having choice in monitor supplier, so the DVI support is welcome, but it leaves a very large question over the future of the 30" ACD. Will it stay DVI for some time?
I have been putting off buying a new 30" ACD for some time now because the current one is a few years old and has seen no price drop for a least two years.
When Apple announced the move to mini-DP I thought that I would have to buy soon or wait until I do system upgrade (thinking the new ACD would be mini-DP).
Then this line of upgrades came and no new ACD and even quite bit from Apple on the ability to use DVI and mini-dp on the pro. I appreciate having choice in monitor supplier, so the DVI support is welcome, but it leaves a very large question over the future of the 30" ACD. Will it stay DVI for some time?
Crank it to 11 with Turbo Boost!
One thing I wonder about is why the x264 guy claims that this Nelhalem processor SIMD engine boosts performance of encoding so much compared to the Penryn chips. Penryn has SSE4 and this CPU has SSE4.2, which is SSE4 plus like 5 additional instructions. Curiously, when SSE4 was first released, the x264 people claimed that it was pointless and that they would never be implementing it (and unfortunately, not a single other application out there currently supports SSE4). Now they can't get enough of it? What does that handfull of additional instructions do?
One thing I wonder about is why the x264 guy claims that this Nelhalem processor SIMD engine boosts performance of encoding so much compared to the Penryn chips. Penryn has SSE4 and this CPU has SSE4.2, which is SSE4 plus like 5 additional instructions. Curiously, when SSE4 was first released, the x264 people claimed that it was pointless and that they would never be implementing it (and unfortunately, not a single other application out there currently supports SSE4). Now they can't get enough of it? What does that handfull of additional instructions do?
So, here is my question:
Supposing that I were to wait awhile for the newest Mac Pros to show up in the refurb store, and I were to then purchase the lowest 8-core config, would I be able to drop a USB 3.0 card, or ostensibly a Firewire 3200 card, into the machine to "future-proof" it, so-to-speak?
The iMac line no longer holds any promise for me, and it is likely that the Mini is the only other pseudo-upgradeable machine that my wife might end up with, so the Mac Pro is the best use of my dollar, in terms of what it buys.
So, is that possible with a Mac Pro? Could I drop those cards (PCI cards, right?) in at the right time in the future and keep it current?
Are any of you folks with the very first gen Mac Pros feeling like it is out of date, obsolete, and too slow? I am just curious as to the longevity of these machines, as it seems that G4s and G5s from many years ago still see current, heavy use in some applications.
Thanks!
Supposing that I were to wait awhile for the newest Mac Pros to show up in the refurb store, and I were to then purchase the lowest 8-core config, would I be able to drop a USB 3.0 card, or ostensibly a Firewire 3200 card, into the machine to "future-proof" it, so-to-speak?
The iMac line no longer holds any promise for me, and it is likely that the Mini is the only other pseudo-upgradeable machine that my wife might end up with, so the Mac Pro is the best use of my dollar, in terms of what it buys.
So, is that possible with a Mac Pro? Could I drop those cards (PCI cards, right?) in at the right time in the future and keep it current?
Are any of you folks with the very first gen Mac Pros feeling like it is out of date, obsolete, and too slow? I am just curious as to the longevity of these machines, as it seems that G4s and G5s from many years ago still see current, heavy use in some applications.
Thanks!
I believe GM has technology in their V8 engine cars that shuts off two pistons when you don't need the power. They do not call it "turbo boost" (that would be an awesome Night-Rider feature if they did though!)
Relative to other computers, all this tech does is lessen power. Therefore, "turbo" is more of a misnomer than anything else.
Oh No! Another Long One!
+++
RE: The
computer line: their prices and therefore sales, thereof:
Some say, "The current economic situation", as if it's a "static" entity.
It's not (static); it's Dynamic! It's a snowball growing down Everest!
Just 1 year ago, MAC owners would generally (and proudly) say:
"I prefer the (pricier) MAC over a PC because it's better, cleaner & faster!"
The roadmap of the ever-evolving MAC was laid out for all eyes to see:
and for years, the constant 'wave' was one of 'constant' upgrade;
especially when Dough grew on trees..
6 months ago or so, the tree suddenly vanished, and the reality of Dough
forced both companies and buyers of Anything to "look see and think twice!".
Come "Holiday Season" '08, and even with "50% Off!" Sales and more,
no company, big or small, were luring the unwary anymore..
Sales were still miserable Just Yesterday, and they're getting worse Today.
Out of necessity, and only for the growingly fewer who currently can,
$aving$ are rising because $pending is sinking like a lead zeppelin. (ugh!)
Yes.. The dwindling numbers of Richie Rich's and already existing solvent businesses whose life flows 'better' with more powerful (read: faster) computing power will buy a small pile of Mac Pros; and that's about it, folks!
POINT?
The once ever-growing purchase/profit snowball zeitgeist
has already started to melt like the end of the last ice-age.
Consider Today's (I mean Today's) Computer.
As an "asset", shiny new cars are like real-estate in one way..
Whereas with real-estate Today,
the Value is down and it's hard to Dump (read: Sell) it anyhow,
with shiny new products,
most of us who already possess Yesterday's same-products,
will Today hold onto them for a longer spell than usual.
And those who didn't have one but wanted one,
probably didn't have one because they couldn't afford one
Before the Money vanished from sight!
POINT?
Considering the current fare from (and I want a MAC!), and
since I'm neither monitoring the complete climate of the solar system,
nor competing in a checkers match against Deep Purple,
I'm getting me a 2nd-Hand MAC: 'Refurbished', 'Reconditioned', Used!
In this Era of Ever-Shrinking Instant Gratification or Snap,
I Don't need the rendering of Whatever to be completed Yesterday..
POINT?
Where's the Sweet Spot for those growing numbers on the Bread Line?
Half a loaf is better than no loaf at all, Apple !
As far as's MAC line, coupled with the oncoming economic maelstrom,
don't you think that maybe a (gasp!) Mac Airbook at Great Depression-lowered prices,
perhaps coupled with some sort of 'deal' on an iPhone,
might generate some well-needed Ca$holio while the generating is 'good'?
+++
Partial Musings after reading all your opinions
And that's the good news!
+++
+++
RE: The
computer line: their prices and therefore sales, thereof:Some say, "The current economic situation", as if it's a "static" entity.
It's not (static); it's Dynamic! It's a snowball growing down Everest!
Just 1 year ago, MAC owners would generally (and proudly) say:
"I prefer the (pricier) MAC over a PC because it's better, cleaner & faster!"
The roadmap of the ever-evolving MAC was laid out for all eyes to see:
and for years, the constant 'wave' was one of 'constant' upgrade;
especially when Dough grew on trees..
6 months ago or so, the tree suddenly vanished, and the reality of Dough
forced both companies and buyers of Anything to "look see and think twice!".
Come "Holiday Season" '08, and even with "50% Off!" Sales and more,
no company, big or small, were luring the unwary anymore..
Sales were still miserable Just Yesterday, and they're getting worse Today.
Out of necessity, and only for the growingly fewer who currently can,
$aving$ are rising because $pending is sinking like a lead zeppelin. (ugh!)
Yes.. The dwindling numbers of Richie Rich's and already existing solvent businesses whose life flows 'better' with more powerful (read: faster) computing power will buy a small pile of Mac Pros; and that's about it, folks!
POINT?
The once ever-growing
purchase/profit snowball zeitgeist has already started to melt like the end of the last ice-age.
Consider Today's (I mean Today's) Computer.
As an "asset", shiny new cars are like real-estate in one way..
Whereas with real-estate Today,
the Value is down and it's hard to Dump (read: Sell) it anyhow,
with shiny new products,
most of us who already possess Yesterday's same-products,
will Today hold onto them for a longer spell than usual.
And those who didn't have one but wanted one,
probably didn't have one because they couldn't afford one
Before the Money vanished from sight!
POINT?
Considering the current fare from
(and I want a MAC!), andsince I'm neither monitoring the complete climate of the solar system,
nor competing in a checkers match against Deep Purple,
I'm getting me a 2nd-Hand MAC: 'Refurbished', 'Reconditioned', Used!
In this Era of Ever-Shrinking Instant Gratification or Snap,
I Don't need the rendering of Whatever to be completed Yesterday..
POINT?
Where's the Sweet Spot for those growing numbers on the Bread Line?
Half a loaf is better than no loaf at all,
Apple !As far as
's MAC line, coupled with the oncoming economic maelstrom, don't you think that maybe a (gasp!) Mac Airbook at Great Depression-lowered prices,
perhaps coupled with some sort of 'deal' on an iPhone,
might generate some well-needed Ca$holio while the generating is 'good'?
+++
Partial Musings after reading all your opinions
And that's the good news!
+++
It's based on the Westmere (32 nm) shrink of Nehalem. Clock speeds of Westmeres are said to be similar to those of Nehalems, so we may not see a big speed increase (from the canceled Auburndale). We would see a good increase from Penryn though.
I don't think Apple's done that before with Intel.
great but what about the rest of the Apple lineup? Me thinks it's time for a new product right between the iMac and the Mac Pro. Something with an i7 probably and option for SLI and some other features that would appeal to scientists on a smaller budget or a family that needs something more powerful than an iMac but not as expensive as a Mac Pro. Not to mention that an iMac is a pain/expensive to upgrade.
memory bandwith
That's the big deal with Nehalem.
http://www.apple.com/macpro/performance.html
Look at posted benchmarks for Maxwell Render which shows a 1.7x improvement over the previous generation of Mac Pro utilizeing all 8 cores. Mathmatica show a 1.8x increase.
Applications as these are the best case for an upgrade from the previous generation. Otherwise, not much benefit to an upgrade.
It would be true that the Nehalem Mac Pro's would have better potential for OpenCL and Grand Central performance improvement coming with Snow Leopard.
That's the big deal with Nehalem.
http://www.apple.com/macpro/performance.html
Look at posted benchmarks for Maxwell Render which shows a 1.7x improvement over the previous generation of Mac Pro utilizeing all 8 cores. Mathmatica show a 1.8x increase.
Applications as these are the best case for an upgrade from the previous generation. Otherwise, not much benefit to an upgrade.
It would be true that the Nehalem Mac Pro's would have better potential for OpenCL and Grand Central performance improvement coming with Snow Leopard.