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Apple, Gobe and Future Office Software?

This rumor has legs!

This could really get interesting. Lets see, Gobe was started by ex-clarisworks developers, some recruiting activity by Apple in 2001, Gobe folds in late 2002 and proposes open source release of code, code release doesn't happen, Apple snaps up some Gobe developers...

In pure connect the dots terms, this non-rumor has more basis in reality than most. Almost certainly Appleworks will be updated fairly soon. Will it be a full office productivity set of applications (available individually of course) or an integrated mini-suite? Will Apple dare have direct office compatibility or is it a safer bet that they will continue to let MacLinks carry that burden?
 
Re: Anybody noticed?

Originally posted by msascha
The interesting part:
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On their website: Currently we are unable to fulfill orders for our products. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Maybe they are busy with something else?
 
has anyone seen the latest screenshots for nisus writer X? apparently nisus aquired okito composer and has built a cocoa version of writer. it looks feature rich and rather inexpensive compared to word. i would not mind a keynote, nisus, mesa bundle.
 
What do you mean "Will Apple dare have direct office compatibility..."?!?! What do you call Keynote? I think Keynote was a warning shot across Microsoft's bow. I hope it was prelude to much, much more.
 
I sure hope they're working in that direction...

Originally posted by MOSiX Man
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this before... I wonder if some of the work the GoBe team did, made it's way into Keynote. If so, might they have also helped lay groundwork for other apps to compete against MS Office?
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I sure hope you're right. That would be cool if you could have an Office-type app that outdid Office and allowed yout work with your iLife apps. I don't exactly know how that would really help the Office apps unless you wanted to simply drag and drop pictures, music, and movies into word processing docs, or spreadsheets. I know we have Filemaker Pro on OSX but what about OOP databases for OSX? Something like MySQL maybe? Who knows? Anyway, if you could drag and drop material from any app to another, I think that would be a major accomplishment. I just wonder how useful it would be. (Perhaps you could create webpage links in your docs that launched music files? I don't know.)
 
Die, Microsoft, Die!

Apple Products which obviate the need for MS Office:
  • Safari
  • Mail.app
  • Keynote
  • iCal
  • AddressBook
All that leaves to replace are Word and Excel. Here's hoping Apple is going to release a complete line of Office-killers soon.

And note that OS X Server is serious competition for the server market because it is robust, high-performance, scalable, open-source, and had UNLIMITED users compared to MS charging a ton for each seat. And it is FREE with purchase of Xserve.

How long till major Enterprises wake up one day and find that they can save millions every year by switching to Macs? Yes, that's single-source hardware, but from a company that makes really top-notch hardware. And right now they're using single-source software from a company that can't release a program without including "thousands of bugs" (their own words). With Macs, Enterprises' software would be mostly open-source, if they chose. Or they could use Apple's really solid, well-programed software.

And by the way, here are some more Office killers:
 
While Apple might make the worlds greatest office-ish suite of applications, it's not going to kill office. The zillions of MS folks out there will still be using MSOffice and anyone using Apple's office suite will have to convert docs back and forth. I already have enough formatting isses b/w office for mac and office for windows. The only way it would be any better is if Apple managed to have AppleOffice play better with Windows office than MSOffice for Mac plays with Windows office.

The file compatibility issue will still remain. My version of Keynote is on the way. If it doesn't play well with PowerPoint on the PC, I'll never be able to use it.

For switchers, the big problem is familiarity (from where I stand anyway). People ask me all the time "Does it run _____?" 50% the time that blank is filled with "Office". If I were to answer, "no, they have something better" the conversation would end. "No, Apple has something better" seems to be the mac enthusiast creed, but to Windows users it's just fluff.

Any MSOffice competition from apple will have to be substantually better AND substantually cheaper than office for many switchers to buy it otherwise they'll buy what they're used to buying. Common sense / logic / better application aside, people like what is familar.

The Apple enthusiast creed needs to change. "Everything your PC Does and More" instead of "Everything your PC Does...but different."

For those of you who can live in an Apple only world, groovy for you. You're few and far between.
 
Access, Publisher and Front Page.

Don't laugh MS makes a lot of money selling these applications and people love them becuse they are familer with the interface.
 
Many in the server rooms are already getting sick of Microsoft. Not only do you have to pay for each OS license for servers and workstations, but there are seperate licenses for clients to connect to domain controllers, file servers, Exchange services, database services, etc...

What's worse is that now, with XP and .Net, licenses will require payment, for repeated reactivation, as MS sees fit. Not to mention the whole concept of apps being solely "pay for play" .Net services.
 
Remember WordPerfect?

Originally posted by FlamDrag
While Apple might make the worlds greatest office-ish suite of applications, it's not going to kill office. The zillions of MS folks out there will still be using MSOffice and anyone using Apple's office suite will have to convert docs back and forth. I already have enough formatting isses b/w office for mac and office for windows.
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I very much agree. BUT... that's exactly what people said about WordPerfect and Lotus 123. How many people use those programs now?
 
What if (The magic "what if") Appleworks became open source?

Originally posted by FlamDrag
While Apple might make the worlds greatest office-ish suite of applications, it's not going to kill office. The zillions of MS folks out there will still be using MSOffice and anyone using Apple's office suite will have to convert docs back and forth. I already have enough formatting isses b/w office for mac and office for windows. The only way it would be any better is if Apple managed to have AppleOffice play better with Windows office than MSOffice for Mac plays with Windows office.

The file compatibility issue will still remain. My version of Keynote is on the way. If it doesn't play well with PowerPoint on the PC, I'll never be able to use it.

For switchers, the big problem is familiarity (from where I stand anyway). People ask me all the time "Does it run _____?" 50% the time that blank is filled with "Office". If I were to answer, "no, they have something better" the conversation would end. "No, Apple has something better" seems to be the mac enthusiast creed, but to Windows users it's just fluff.

Any MSOffice competition from apple will have to be substantually better AND substantually cheaper than office for many switchers to buy it otherwise they'll buy what they're used to buying. Common sense / logic / better application aside, people like what is familar.

The Apple enthusiast creed needs to change. "Everything your PC Does and More" instead of "Everything your PC Does...but different."

For those of you who can live in an Apple only world, groovy for you. You're few and far between.
Click to expand...

I think you make some really good points. Familiarity is key here. Why would anyone want to relearn how to do something as simple as working with a word processing program? Or for that matter, a spreadsheet? Not me. And I'm a real Apple fanatic in many respects. I avoid my Appleworks 5 spreadsheet like the plague because I'm too comfortable with Excel.

Now, on the otherhand, to have the exact same functionality of Excel (details count here such as quick keys, interaction with the cells, etc.) but improved significantly and to have seamless integration with all Excel programs on PC, then I would consider the program no matter who the vendor is. How can that be done? I don't know.

Maybe OpenOffice will be the answer once they Aquafied their interface. Maybe not. The idea of a free Office program sounds about right: it would be worth my while to download the program for free knowing that the trade off was that I would be spending my time acquainting myself to the new program. That's what got me onto Appleworks 5 since it was on my Mac OS disk.

Perhaps open source will be the answer here? Isn't that how Linux became as popular and as well publicized as it did? How many companies across the country or even in the world, when faced with the option of upgrading to the next gen or Office wouldn't mind some of their company tinkering with a free open source office program?

Maybe Apple should consider this as an avenue to improving Appleworks: Make it open source and then see about making it work on PC's as well?

Afterwards, Apple could add bells and whistle to special Mac Only versions with later releases for PC's? Hmmm. I dunno. Just mumbling out loud.
 
Re: What if (The magic "what if") Appleworks became open source?

Originally posted by GeneR


I think you make some really good points. Familiarity is key here. Why would anyone want to relearn how to do something as simple as working with a word processing program? Or for that matter, a spreadsheet? Not me. And I'm a real Apple fanatic in many respects. I avoid my Appleworks 5 spreadsheet like the plague because I'm too comfortable with Excel.

Now, on the otherhand, to have the exact same functionality of Excel (details count here such as quick keys, interaction with the cells, etc.) but improved significantly and to have seamless integration with all Excel programs on PC, then I would consider the program no matter who the vendor is. How can that be done? I don't know.
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There was a word processor called Sprint (perhpas from Borland) that had featuritis. It could have a GUI similar in function and feel to several other word processors (wordstar, word perfect, word, some others). This made switching seamless and any feature not available in your native environment was available by accessing the native sprint form factor.

Something like that for the Mac would be PERFECT for the whole switcher target market. Excel users would not have to relearn methods to use the product or the platform.

Rocketman
 
Originally posted by FlamDrag
The Apple enthusiast creed needs to change. "Everything your PC Does and More" instead of "Everything your PC Does...but different."
Click to expand...

I think you are on to something. But lets make it "Everything your PC does and much, much more!"

How about just "Work Different"

I agree that familiarity is a stong reason for people not to switch to a new app that basically does what they can already do. But Keynote looks like a good example of an app that can do much more than it's competitor, do it much more easily, and much more consistently.

As somebody else said, most people only use the basics of Office, because it's to much of a pain to learn the rest. That's where Apple's productivity software could shine -- offering a program that is easy and intuitive to use, along with being feature rich and compatible with MS Office.
 
Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Maybe Apple will buy the Microsoft Mac Business Unit and the rights to Mac Office.


And maybe monkeys will fly out of my ars.
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Yeah, right! And maybe Apple will come out with a killer, new app that blows Powerpoint out of the water! Hah!
 
Originally posted by MOSiX Man
How about just "Work Different"
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How about "Think Better"

Afterall, Mac users are smarter, eh?

Think that might enhance the myth that Mac users are somehow snobby?? :D
 
Originally posted by JW Pepper
Access, Publisher and Front Page.

Don't laugh MS makes a lot of money selling these applications and people love them becuse they are familer with the interface.
Click to expand...

I agree, I will miss Access the most when I 'switch'. Also don't forget MS Project.
 
Gobe in Vancouver WA

Vancouver WA is across the river from Portland OR.

As far as the Appleworks code base becoming open source, you'd be better off starting from scratch. Between the attempt to OpenDocify it and the quest to make it cross platform, it has so many hacks and patches and wierdnesses in it that you'd go insane trying to figure out what the hell was going on.
 
Re: Gobe in Vancouver WA

Originally posted by paulyester
Vancouver WA is across the river from Portland OR.

As far as the Appleworks code base becoming open source, you'd be better off starting from scratch. Between the attempt to OpenDocify it and the quest to make it cross platform, it has so many hacks and patches and wierdnesses in it that you'd go insane trying to figure out what the hell was going on.
Click to expand...

Maybe the many talented programmers at SourceForge.net and elsewhere on the net who are real Mac fans will work in this direction: Creating a cross platform Office replacement that would be free. Maybe I'm just stating what is already happening with OpenOffice. I dunno. I don't have Jaguar at this moment and I don't have OpenOffice. And OpenOffice, from the sound of it, is still working on developing its Aqua interface.

Maybe change is in the air and we don't even know about it. It's kind of like those still days when there isn't a cloud in the sky and the air is very still. Isn't that earthquake weather? The prelude before the tremor? Does the seed of innovation via free software need to take root in the general business and private sector before concensus can be achieved?

Once again, I don't know. Wishful thinking, I suppose. I'd just like to see Apple utilizing the feedback of its customer base, and all the input and contributions of the Open Source Movement of programmers and al. to really live up to the potential of "thinking different".

If as a corporation, Apple is able to harness the tremendous number of people who are interested in seeing Apple pull ahead, or (at the very least) to see Microsoft lose its monopoly status, I would think that the expression of "thinking different" will mean thinking creatively, challenging traditional roles of corporation and public volunteers to really start some new trends. If this means starting a new AppleWorks from stratch by creating a volunteer network (maybe with an Apple.net type meeting place) of talented programmers then would the possibility of creating an Office-type app would be able to really take root? Instead of limiting the programming tasks to just the very talented people at Apple, maybe it would be better to harness the power of these programmers around the world whom want to say something with their skills: if anything that they are sick of MS monopoly and "don't want to take it anymore."

Once again, Apple's probably already doing this, I'm probably just unaware of it, I'm just babbling like and idiot, and stating what might already be happening. Maybe. But then again, I just don't know. Feedback on this topic would be very appreciated. Thanks. :)
 
Re: Competition is a good thing

Originally posted by Sol
Apple could take it to the next level and if they really did contract a new development team then I am sure that the results will be interesting to say the least. The last Appleworks featured compatibility with OS X but other than that nothing really new was brought to the table. As for Office, it is something of an industry standard in the business world but that does not mean there is no demand for something better. If Apple was to release a product that could run on x86 hardware then they would trully be competing with Microsoft. When Apple releases similar software to Microsoft's for the Mac OS then at best they may dominate within their own user-base and at worse, may convince MS to stop releasing their software for OS X.

In this game of strategy there must be a contingency plan and I believe that the fabled "Marklar" is it. Should Microsoft ever pull out of the Mac market Apple would retaliate with a release of an OS X for x86 hardware. I doubt PeeCee users would miss Classic compatibility since the OS X software catalogue has matured in recent months. There are rumours that Marklar is intended to be the alternative OS for people who do not like anti-piracy limitations in Microsoft's forthcoming OS. If all this turns out to be true then I look forward to the day when OS X users are seen as seedy types who get up to no good with their computers (unlike the perfectly law abiding Windows users of course).:cool:
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I think Marklar will not come for a long, long time (if ever), because Apple's whole game is that they control everything; the hardware, the software, everything. If they allowed Mac OS X to be put on PCs, they'd have the same problems that Windows has: hardware driver incompatibilities, possible crashing because of x86 architecture, and they would lose a huge chunk of their hardware sales.:(
 
Originally posted by FlamDrag
The file compatibility issue will still remain. My version of Keynote is on the way. If it doesn't play well with PowerPoint on the PC, I'll never be able to use it.
Click to expand...

I have good news and bad news. . .

The good news:

Keynote saves to the same .ppt file format, so PCs will be able to watch the presentation with no conversion required.:D

The bad news:

From my experience with PCs, the PowerPoint for Windows has no transitions that even come close to the QuickTime-based transitions built into Keynote, therefore, some of the transitions will not be viewable on PCs, and you might have to change them to the ones that the PC has.:(
 
Re: Die, Microsoft, Die!

Originally posted by Toe
Apple Products which obviate the need for MS Office:
  • Safari
  • Mail.app
  • Keynote
  • iCal
  • AddressBook
All that leaves to replace are Word and Excel. Here's hoping Apple is going to release a complete line of Office-killers soon.
Click to expand...


You forgot Access.

Actually, I'm not really happy with ANY database I've worked with. All of them have fixed fields, none of them incorporate the record structure flexibility of XML. I suppose you could just pop XML in a database but searching it would be a PITA.

The only exception? Apple's very own Address Book, although it's special purpose software and format. The "edit" window interface is just brilliant - flexible and wastes no space at all. Unfortunately apple won't release the source code, which is regular cocoa but somewhat non-trivial to implement apparently.
 
I am a die-hard mac user (mostly pro app such as FCP and AE)... I do use the MS office... Guys be honest: this is a good suite of app for everyday business as well as more complicated Stuff. Excel is a good program , Powerpoint sucks...

Apple is now at a point where they have nothing to prove in terms of hardware (they are simply the best). In terms of software, I do have a lot of trouble seeing Apple's strategy when it comes to productivity suites. And from what I am reading here and there in the forum, everyone has.

Apple is inserting slowly but surely one application at a time (Iapps,Keynote, Browser...) is it a good strategy? We want to kick Bill's butt: is it a good way to handle the issue?

All of us want everything right here right now but I have the strong feeling that applications such as Word processing and Spreadsheet are not going to be seen pretty soon as separate apps (appleworks does not appear as a serious contender to Word/Excel). Unless Apple sells more units and get a better market share...
 
Re: Re: Die, Microsoft, Die!

Originally posted by cryptochrome
You forgot Access.
Click to expand...
And you forgot to mention what a piece of crap Access is. :p

I believe I've read that FileMaker is the most popular, non-bundled database software on Windows. Sure, many more use Access, but 99.999987% of them hate every minute of it.

In even better news, FileMaker is completely re-writing FMP for version 7. I'm guessing that compatibility will be a major target here, just like with all other current Apple initiatives. And I would also guess that it's going to be SQL-based.

I wouldn't be surprised if FMP7 had some utility for converting Access databases directly.
 
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