Apple Goes to Court With French Tax Activist Group That Paints Company as The Empire From Star Wars

[cicalinarrot]

Apple is scamming all EU, just like other big companies. They are not trying to use legal tricks, they are doing stuff that has already been judged as illegal and punished several times. You make money somewhere, you pax tax in there. Not just a little part in another country.

 

[Gorms]

I am not sure about in France, but in the U.S., protesters can be on public property, they cannot enter private property to protest like this.

Personally, I think everywhere has overly complicated tax codes, let's just abolish all income taxes and move a flat sales tax.

I don’t know the exact laws in France, but basically, when the French want to protest they put every other country to shame. Blocking Ferry ports, Union strikes have involved “kidnapping” a CEO. They give zero s##ts, they go hard until they get the resolution they want and, quite frankly, more power to them I say.

 

[Unami]

yeah, protests in france can be pretty impressive.

btw., attac is not a „french tax activist“ group. from their homepage: „Attac is an international movement working towards social, environmental and democratic alternatives in the globalisation process.“

they‘ll happily go to court with apple - this can only result in good PR-opportunities for them. i also hope they win.

 

[Wondercow]

its rich to see the French try to lecture any American entity on "freedom of expression."

Where do you see anything about the French trying to lecture anyone?

 

[69650]

Good luck to the protesters. Apple has turned into an evil empire.

 

[TheRealTVGuy]

They do know Storm Troopers basically work for the Empire, right??

 

[Marshall73]

Tax avoidance is legal. When asked, most people would be party to a legal scheme which would reduce their tax liabilities. They should be protesting against their governments if they want to remedy the situation.

 

[Unami]

Tax avoidance is legal. When asked, most people would be party to a legal scheme which would reduce their tax liabilities. They should be protesting against their governments if they want to remedy the situation.

protest is also legal. don‘t be mistaken, they also protest the french government among others.

even if most people would act as you claim, attac activists are still free to find that morally wrong.

 

[AZ63]

A little surprised by the comments here.

It's no surprise that Apple avoids taxes. How does this make them communists/socialists? I am all for capitalism, and agree that soclist ideas are taking place in the US; but how does the public protesting a company to pay taxes make them socialists?

I agree, Apple avoids paying taxes like everyone else. Some people move to a different state to lower their tax burden. Some move to a different country to lower their tax burden. Some drive to a different city to buy a car because the taxes are lower. Some employ tax attorneys to find ways to legally pay less in taxes. No surprise there. Everybody does what they can legally to pay less in taxes.
Perhaps the idea about people protesting for Apple to pay what they believe Apple owes is that it goes along with the idea that socialists believe they are entitled to other people's money.
Now, maybe Apple does owe additional money and it should pay what it legally owes. What bothers me is that Apple and an EU country entered into an agreement. Years and years later the EU comes along and says oh no you don't. You owe more money. Why should Apple be on the hook for that. The country that is part of the EU should be the one responsible to make sure the EU guidelines are being followed. If the country agrees to a deal that is not in accordance with the EU's overarching guidelines then it is the country's fault and not the companies fault. All companies are supposed to know better the country's guidelines than the country? Come on people, really?

 

[magicschoolbus]

Um, the fact that they're socialists makes them socialists. Apple does pay their taxes, as little as legally possible, as is their right and obligation to shareholders... just not as much in taxes as this group thinks they should. They see deep pockets and a successful company, so they stick their hand out, then cry like babies when their hand gets slapped away. Apple isn't in business for charity, they're in business to make money. As much money as LEGALLY possible. And I believe they should be allowed to do so.

Apple has taken extraordinary advantages of tax loopholes to AVOID paying taxes. They create billions in profit and find any way to NOT pay taxes; while advocating for SJW causes at the same time, which is totally hilarious. I didn't read this as asking for a handout, more so, stop avoiding paying your damn taxes.
[doublepost=1518462530][/doublepost]

Good luck to the protesters. Apple has turned into an evil empire.

And to think we once thought Microsoft was a corporate evil empire.. have times changed..

 

[Kabeyun]

Let’s see...

Disney and Apple are pals from the Steve Jobs days. Disney buys Lucasfilm. Attac uses copyright Lucasfilm icons in smear campaign against Apple....

Yeah, my guess is that Lucasfilm weighs in soon and this ends promptly.

 

[Mousse]

Wow, they have time at that time of day?
Someone needs to get a job and pay taxes them selves.

The French work fewer hours (35 hours a week), for higher pay (enough to live comfortably after taxes) and pay higher taxes (up to 45%) than us. As long as they don't vandalize the place, I see nothing wrong with them protesting. I'd be pissed off too if I had 45% of my income taken away while Corporate America pays zero taxes.

 

[justperry]

The French work fewer hours (35 hours a week), for higher pay (enough to live comfortably after taxes) and pay higher taxes (up to 45%) than us. As long as they don't vandalize the place, I see nothing wrong with them protesting. I'd be pissed off too if I had 45% of my income taken away while Corporate America pays zero taxes.

Someone gets it.

 

[swajames]

Um, the fact that they're socialists makes them socialists. Apple does pay their taxes, as little as legally possible, as is their right and obligation to shareholders... just not as much in taxes as this group thinks they should. They see deep pockets and a successful company, so they stick their hand out, then cry like babies when their hand gets slapped away. Apple isn't in business for charity, they're in business to make money. As much money as LEGALLY possible. And I believe they should be allowed to do so.

Any company or individual does have a right to try to pay as little tax as is legally possible, but there is no requirement for a company to pay as little tax as is legally possible because of any obligation to its shareholders to do so.

What you are actually seeing here is the consequence of companies shifting profit broadly generated in one country to another. In this case, Apple utilized a complex structure to shift profit generated in France (and elsewhere) over to Ireland. This absolutely took tax revenue away from France. And Ireland for the most part too, but many gloss over that...

Whether these arrangements are or were "legal" remains to be seen. It's not at all like the often mis-used analogy "well surely you would take all the deductions to which you are entitled too".

I believe that if more people actually understood the details of the typical tax saving arrangements in question, and saw for themselves the lengths that companies had to go to or went to in their quest to make profits essentially disappear, often in the form of transactions which arguably serve little or no purpose other than to facilitate the intended tax savings, there would be a lot less sympathy for all the companies who use them.

 

[Alenore]

Tax avoidance is legal. When asked, most people would be party to a legal scheme which would reduce their tax liabilities. They should be protesting against their governments if they want to remedy the situation.

Apple paid 13 millions euros of taxes to France in 2016. It equals to roughly 50000 iPhone sold for €800.
Even without counting iTunes purchases (going through Luxembourg), that's ridiculous and far from the truth. Between 2016 and 2017, the marketshare went from 19 to 24% in France.

so yes, they're declaring sale in Ireland instead of France, which robs France from taxes to pay them to a stupidely low rate in an (unlawful) deal made with Ireland. Far from avoidance, plainly just lying.

 

[AZ63]

protest is also legal. don‘t be mistaken, they also protest the french government among others.

even if most people would act as you claim, attac activists are still free to find that morally wrong.

Yes, and people are free to find attac activists morally wrong.

 

[Porco]

“Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic. The taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute.“

 

[AZ63]

Any company or individual does have a right to try to pay as little tax as is legally possible, but there is no requirement for a company to pay as little tax as is legally possible because of any obligation to its shareholders to do so.

What you are actually seeing here is the consequence of companies shifting profit broadly generated in one country to another. In this case, Apple utilized a complex structure to shift profit generated in France (and elsewhere) over to Ireland. This absolutely took tax revenue away from France. And Ireland for the most part too, but many gloss over that...

Whether these arrangements are or were "legal" remains to be seen. It's not at all like the often mis-used analogy "well surely you would take all the deductions to which you are entitled too".

I believe that if more people actually understood the details of the typical tax saving arrangements in question, and saw for themselves the lengths that companies had to go to or went to in their quest to make profits essentially disappear, often in the form of transactions which arguably serve little or no purpose other than to facilitate the intended tax savings, there would be a lot less sympathy for all the companies who use them.

I agree with you. I ask who is to blame here. The company seeking to protect/keep as much money as they can or the government that has grown so large and become so unwieldy that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. What I mean by that is one arm of government extracts money from companies to make laws, read loopholes, so that the company can pay less in taxes while another arm of government is there to extract taxes from the company. The EU makes it that much worse because it has a governing body overseeing other governing bodies. What a mess. Set a tax rate. No deductions. The company pays the percentage owed on the money/gross profits it generates.

 

[rafark]

Where in the piece does it show or imply that Apple is against free speech? Apple doesn't want them trespassing, damaging property, or obstructing and endangering customers and staff.

Also, free speech means the government won't unnecessarily limit a person's expression; it doesn't apply at all to private parties.

I am not sure about in France, but in the U.S., protesters can be on public property, they cannot enter private property to protest like this.

Personally, I think everywhere has overly complicated tax codes, let's just abolish all income taxes and move a flat sales tax.

When did they get in the store? As far as I know, these people where protesting in front of the store, in public space.

 

[CarlJ]

Is Apple against free speech?

If someone came into your home to protest something they didn't like about you, and you called the cops to get them ejected, does that mean you are against free speech?

 

[AZ63]

Good luck to the protesters. Apple has turned into an evil empire.

Microsoft must be loving this. For years and years people would spew hate at M$ calling them the dark side, the evil empire and now there is a new top dog for people to throw shade at. All smiles in Redmond.
[doublepost=1518473191][/doublepost]

Let’s see...

Disney and Apple are pals from the Steve Jobs days. Disney buys Lucasfilm. Attac uses copyright Lucasfilm icons in smear campaign against Apple....

Yeah, my guess is that Lucasfilm weighs in soon and this ends promptly.

Yeah, it is France so I am guessing not.

 

[Cartaphilus]

[

 

[AZ63]

When did they get in the store? As far as I know, these people where protesting in front of the store, in public space.

Perhaps you didn't read the story closely enough so here you go …
An Attac spokesperson denied the vandalism reports from 2017 and said the group "simply went into Apple shops in a festive and good-natured way with music and theatre."
I hope that clears it up for you. The group admitted to entering the store, no doubt it interfered with public commerce. But perhaps you are okay with that. Perhaps you would enjoy your day halted by a group that has decided they are more important than you. That your day must stop and that you must listen to their festive and good natured way. If Attac's protests are anything like the Left's protests in the US then their protest was anything but festive and good natured. Don't read this as my saying the group does not have the right to peacefully protest on the street. Just so long as it doesn't interfere with the free flow of goods and services.

 

[5105973]

Music, theater, conga lines? What no mimes? You can’t have a proper protest in France without mimes! This has to be fake news.

 

[jarman92]

Where do you see anything about the French trying to lecture anyone?

"Attac's lawyer Julien Pignon told France Info: "These demands are totally out of proportion with regard to the superior principle of freedom of expression and freedom to demonstrate..."
[doublepost=1518484230][/doublepost]

You forgot one thing, Ireland is part of Europe.




Nonsense.

It is nonsense, but unfortunately true. The first thing that springs to mind is the illegality of denying the Holocaust in Germany. David Irving was sentenced to 3 years in prison in Austria for writing a book they didn't like, and warrants were issued for his arrest in Spain, France, and other European countries. And a few articles found after a cursory Google search:


Spaniards arrested for making puppets deemed objectionable by the police: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/world/europe/spain-europe-protest-free-speech.html

A Spanish sentenced to a year in prison for tweeting about a murder from 40+ years ago: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ase-puts-free-speech-under-spotlight-in-spain

2,500 Londoners arrested for "offensive speech" online:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...nd-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html

Not a lover of Glenn Greenwald but an excellent review of anti-free speech laws in Europe:
https://theintercept.com/2017/08/29...-to-suppress-and-punish-left-wing-viewpoints/

Nonsense, indeed.