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Just forget the elephant in the room that that energy to charge your car comes from coal, natural gas, nuclear, all of which are bad. A small amount comes from hydro, wind, and solar.

Actually, nuclear is pretty green. While in use, it only outputs steam and purified water. Despite the fact it has two big downsides (initial costs, the fact that when it goes bad, it goes REALLY bad), it's currently our best form of energy until we get fusion off the ground (and we have no idea how long that'll take).

Nope climate change is about money, pure and simple. 50 years ago people walked out of their 90 degree apartment with open windows and no air conditioning into a 95 degree summer day and it did not seem so bad, now they walk out of their 72 degree apartment fully air conditioned into a 96 degree summer day and the world is coming to an end. Somehow the world average temperature is up a couple of degrees and it represents the end, the temperature in your home can be off a couple of degrees and you never notice it. It seems to me that some common sense is sorely missing.

That isn't at all what it's about. Think of it like this. We're aiming for no more than 2C, which doesn't sound like that big of a deal. Just two years ago, we had a heat wave that spiked nearly 10C over the average, then the next year, we had a nice cold snap that made for a very mild summer. This doesn't prove anything, either pro or con, about global warming, since it's entirely localized conditions that fluctuate more wildly than global averages.

The concern of the global average is that it's a relative constant, and a 2 degree difference there makes for wide, sweeping changes across the globe. Case in point, the difference between our current climate, and the muggy, CO2 rich atmosphere of the Jurrassic was about 12C. 5C, which is our worst case scenario that must be avoided at all costs, with highly acidic, hot ocean conditions, would be enough to raise some havoc on our current global economic structure.
 
Thanks for this, I had little idea that people like you assumed so much about how the rest of us think. Common sense is exactly your problem, you need to actually see the forest through the trees but your focus is your own back yard...just 100 years ago, common sense would have said something the size of an atom couldn't blow up an entire city. So much for that approach.

Yep you made my point exactly, something the size of an atom can't blow up a city. More FUD. An atomic bomb is what, millions of times larger than an atom and takes a lot of advanced engineering to make it go off? Just common sense. Common sense does not mean one is ignorant of science and there is a huge difference between ignorance and common sense. Yes, 100 years ago, we were ignorant about some things. Today we are ignorant about some things. On the other hand we are not smart about climate change because the science does not exist and what has been put forward has been fabricated for financial gain.

No one in their right mind should believe that given science's failure to accurately predict volcanos, hurricanes, rainfall a few days out, clouds, storms, temperatures a few days out, etc. that science's understanding of the earth is capable of accurately predicting the future temperature of the earth. Commons sense says the science is not there, only fear. So today, we are ignorant about climate change, but if you want to give up your freedoms and your wealth because of that ignorance and fear, feel free, but don't force me to.

Should we be studying the climate, absolutely. Should be make financial decisions based on our clear understanding of the scientific fact regarding climate change destroying the world, absolutely not.

Back to your example, in the 1950's and 60's there were a lot of people that believed the atomic bomb would have ended the earth by now. What would have happened if we had all gave up our jobs and moved into bunkers to subsist in conditions of minimum livability for the last 70 years? And while everyone agrees the potential for destruction still exists, it has not happened and probably won't. Why because the earth is not a static ecosystem.
 
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The real question is, what environmental factor has changed in the last 150 years to account for the huge spike in temperature?

You need to check your science, it has happened a number of times before the industrial age and the earth turned out just fine. It has been both warmer and colder on average. Yes it affects the local climate, sometimes over decades, sometimes over centuries. So what? To think that we can, based on our knowledge today, control this very natural oscillation of average temperature is not very realistic. But it does give politicians a great way to control thought, money, and elections.
 
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This is a strawman argument if there ever was one. "We can't predict when volcanoes will erupt, ergo we can't predict temperature. Therefore, global warming is FUD".

...which you're halfway right. No one can predict future temperatures with 100% accuracy. But that's not what all the alarm is about. What they can predict are previous trends, look at the current data, and extrapolate from there. For the last 2000 years, the average global temperature has fluctuated only +-1C, then suddenly, starting around 1900, we see a HUGE spike in global average temperature.

2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png


Now what caused that? If it wasn't man made, what environmental or solar factors would explain it? No matter what you believe to be the cause, the evidence that the earth is warming up tremendously is all but set in stone by this point.
 
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But it does give politicians a great way to control thought, money, and elections.

It doesn't do a thing of the sort. Taxes are lower now than they were in the 50's, and even if we were to subsidize green energy concerns, the vast majority of it would be taxed through fossil fuel based industries.

Your thought control via taxes argument is bog standard conspiracy theory BS.
 
This is better than not doing it, but I fear it's all too little, too late.
 
This is a strawman argument if there ever was one. "We can't predict when volcanoes will erupt, ergo we can't predict temperature. Therefore, global warming is FUD". . . . <snip>
What I said, is that we don't understand the earth enough to make these kinds of climate predictions. We do know that large volcanos absolutely cause climate change and temperature change. So what special knowledge do you have to say volcanos don't matter and are not part of the equation. Oh right, it does not fit your viewpoint. Oh my god, the sky is falling, the sky is falling. Run, run, run.
 
What I said, is that we don't understand the earth enough to make these kinds of climate predictions. We do know that large volcanos absolutely cause climate change and temperature change. So what special knowledge do you have to say volcanos don't matter and are not part of the equation. Oh right, it does not fit your viewpoint. Oh my god, the sky is falling, the sky is falling. Run, run, run.

Yeah, ignore what I posted above. Go for the low hanging fruit.

As for my "viewpoint", I'm arguing the data, not arguing around it like you are. The statistics are undeniable by this point. After a downward trend in global temperatures, we suddenly see a huge spike over the last 100 years, rather than the expected gradual upswing. What environmental factors would cause that? You can doubt global warming all you want, but you have to explain WHY you doubt it while still arguing within the scope of the now indisputable data.

What do people gain by going with a lie? "Oh, it's a ploy to sell out our ever dwindling limited resource industries in order to better benefit renewable resource initiatives". WELL GOD FORBID! Even if global warming is a conspiracy, it's one that plays out for a better economic advantage, so...eh.
 
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What I said, is that we don't understand the earth enough to make these kinds of climate predictions.
Because why is that exactly? Why don't we understand the earth enough? Where's your evidence that any of this is even remotely the truth? I'm betting you're just parroting the message fed to you by coal, oil and gas special interests, by way of paranoid talk radio or other FUD-spouting ignoramuses who wouldn't know what we understand of the earth or not if it came up to them and bit them in the ass!

We do know that large volcanos absolutely cause climate change and temperature change.
Stuff like this has been debunked countless times. Volcanoes aren't affecting our climate any more now than they have been over countless millennia. Nor are cosmic rays, or variations in sun spot cycles, or any of the other popular bunk FUD conspiracy theories either.

It's us doing it. Which is kind of logical if you actually think of it, because if you change the composition of a gas mixture, the mixture's properties will also change. And we're changing our atmosphere, and its properties will hence change as well.

So what special knowledge do you have to say volcanos don't matter and are not part of the equation. Oh right, it does not fit your viewpoint.
Nonsense. Volcanoes, as are a great many other factors, are taken into account by the various climate models used to analyze climate change. You'd know this already if you were even the least bit interested in understanding the subject and its science you're ranting about.

Oh my god, the sky is falling, the sky is falling. Run, run, run.
If you lived in Micronesia for example you would think the sky is indeed falling - or well, the oceans swelling really, because that's what's happening to these guys.
 
Stuff like this has been debunked countless times. Volcanoes aren't affecting our climate any more now than they have been over countless millennia.

They can, provided the eruption is large enough. I think Krakatoa was the last time a volcano had a direct, lasting effect on global temperatures. That said, a good eruption usually introduces a cooling trend around the globe, due to the dispersed material flying freely through the atmosphere, blocking sunlight. It's like a mini nuclear winter, but without the bombs.

But even then, the effects only lasts about 2-10 years, depending.
 
They can, provided the eruption is large enough.
They can, sure, but volcanoes typically don't have long-lasting effects, and over decades that effect - even with krakatoa-sized blips here and there - statistically melds into an average baseline level. That's what I was getting at. :)

That said, a good eruption usually introduces a cooling trend around the globe
Yes, volcanoes mostly cool the earth, which makes them bad as an example of naturally occurring global warming factors...!

But even then, the effects only lasts about 2-10 years, depending.
Very very large volcanic events such as the Siberian Traps, probably occurred over a scale of millions of years and may have killed off huge swathes of life on this planet. But such enormous events might not even be possible anymore, due to the natural decay of radioactive elements in our planet's core, and even if it was, Jerry Bruckheimer or Michael Bay would just ride to the rescue, suggesting we shove a nuke down that S.O.B, and save civilization as we know it! ;)
 
They can, sure, but volcanoes typically don't have long-lasting effects, and over decades that effect - even with krakatoa-sized blips here and there - statistically melds into an average baseline level. That's what I was getting at. :)

The way I understand it'd happen, and keep in mind I am not a scientist, is that multiple large volcano eruptions would diffuse the sunlight hitting the surface of the earth, but the continuing emission of greenhouse gasses would still act as a trap for the excess amount of the energy coming through. So what that would do is introduce a slowing trend, but wouldn't outright stop global warming. And even for that to happen, we'd have to have earth shattering eruptions every 20 odd years to sustain that trend over a long period of time.

So...

Yes, volcanoes mostly cool the earth, which makes them bad as an example of naturally occurring global warming factors...!

Yup. Volcanoes don't act as a good counterpoint to the anthropogenic global warming argument, since historically, they have entirely the opposite effect.

...and even if it was, Jerry Bruckheimer or Michael Bay would just ride to the rescue, suggesting we shove a nuke down that S.O.B, and save civilization as we know it! ;)

Transformers, brah. They'd be the ones to save the day. Nukes are so yesterday.
 
I'm not interested in debating with those who don't believe that climate change is happening. But to them I ask, is it really such a bad thing to try to come up with better, more efficient tech and ways of doing things. Sure it can be costly, but only in the monetary sense. Helping miminize our impact on our one and only home is priceless.
 
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I felt the same way until I read this article on Wait but Why. You don't need to read the entire thing - just part 1:
http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-life.html

We got hit by a meteor and made out pretty alright as far as I can tell. I hardly think a few more carbon atoms are going to make a difference. Humans have the ability to adapt their environment to themselves, any change that occurs will invariably be manageable. Even if someone tries to wail about some "Day after tomorrow" scenario, we could move underground. Or maybe not. Humans are incredible innovative, and all it takes is 1 person with a good idea to raise the standard of living for all of us. All i'm saying is let's not pretend that this is some apocalyptic scenario that warrants countless movements and stealing my money through the government to subsidize solar/wind farms, etc. Apple should stop calling attention to all these social issues by acknowledging them. Just make good products, instead of pushing views that don't make any sense by the standard of war's good for human life, that's all.


That's what you get from marketing and media who often doesn't know what they're talking about. Climate change is pretty much vague enough that it includes both processes of cooling and warning. Earth is not a static process, it changes based on thousands of feedback systems around the planet and many of them are meant to reverse one or another to keep them in balance. Hot water, the polar caps melt to cool it down. Volcanos are another natural feedback system to cool the planet by blanketing the sky with ashes for a few days and so on.

Well sure, I'm not saying cycles don't happen.

Both global cooling and warning can occur in the same disastrous process before the planet becomes inhabitable for us.

Um, how? I mean, humans are incredibly innovative. They have the ability to change their environment to fit their needs. I mean, we sent a man to the moon 50 years ago after all. I can't imagine it getting worse than losing our atmosphere, and 500° temperature swings. And we had that figured out back then, imagine how much better it would be with our current technology, and not having to launch it all into space first.

... But I don't think anyone is calling for an apocalypse anyways so....


Also, I'd say education is free, but it's really rather pricey in the US, so there you go…

... What?


Climate change has ****-all to do with whether it's cozy in your living room.

What does it have to do with then?


I'm furious too about warming -> change. It's running from a bully in the hopes he'll stop, which never works.

... What?

Far better what gays did, pushing fag and queer back in their face, owning the words.

........ What?




But you'll need to explain global cooling(?)

Google it.


And nice job attacking the messenger instead of the message!

........................ What???
 
Humans have the ability to adapt their environment to themselves, any change that occurs will invariably be manageable. Even if someone tries to wail about some "Day after tomorrow" scenario, we could move underground. Or maybe not. Humans are incredible innovative, and all it takes is 1 person with a good idea to raise the standard of living for all of us.

Um, how? I mean, humans are incredibly innovative. They have the ability to change their environment to fit their needs. I mean, we sent a man to the moon 50 years ago after all. I can't imagine it getting worse than losing our atmosphere, and 500° temperature swings. And we had that figured out back then, imagine how much better it would be with our current technology, and not having to launch it all into space first.

When disaster strikes, many of the plants and animals we depend on for food will die. We didn't survive the meteor - tiny hamster like creatures did, because they could survive in the world on minimal food, while the dinosaurs that depended on huge amounts of food to survive died. We have grown a lot larger. We're not dinosaurs, but we depend on a lot more food than those gerbils did.

Further, for those hamsters to survive, only a single male and female was needed. They could repopulate the world and build it back to whatever it was pre-disaster.

Most humans will probably die in the disaster. As those people die, we'll lose access to various things we use every day without thinking about it. Generators will shut down. Food production will shut down. Plumbing will shut down. Fuel refineries will shut down. That will cascade to more death.

As we begin rebuilding, what will we be rebuilding from? All of our digitized information will be inaccessible. We'll have books. How many of them will be in languages that we still understand?

My plan is to have solar panels to keep my computer, car, fridge, AC, heater, etc, running. Helps me and my family and friends survive if worse comes to worse. In the best case, I save money by not paying the power company anymore.
 
Am I the only one who has a problem with these climate change people going from "Global cooling" to "Global warming" to..... "Climate change"?? Like they couldn't figure it out, so they just say it just has to not stay the same every year and that's bad?

Combating climate change...

Yes. Yes you are.
This is 2015, & we all are armed with knowledge....
So, yes, you are DEFINITELY the only one honing in on something so petty & unimportant.
The rest of us are concerned about our future & eager to make sure we have one.
We think that is much more important than parsing the semantics of terms used to describe the issue.

Yours truly,
The rest of society
 
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... So what special knowledge do you have to say volcanos don't matter and are not part of the equation. Oh right, it does not fit your viewpoint. Oh my god, the sky is falling, the sky is falling. Run, run, run.

Volcanoes do matter, and are part of the equation. And they are found to pale in comparison to the amount of greenhouse gases humans produce.

From the U.S. Department of the Interior, U.S. Geological Survey ...
Do the Earth’s volcanoes emit more CO2 than human activities? Research findings indicate that the answer to this frequently asked question is a clear and unequivocal, “No.” Human activities, responsible for a projected 35 billion metric tons (gigatons) of CO2 emissions in 2010 (Friedlingstein et al., 2010), release an amount of CO2 that dwarfs the annual CO2 emissions of all the world’s degassing subaerial and submarine volcanoes (Gerlach, 2011).

The published estimates of the global CO2 emission rate for all degassing subaerial (on land) and submarine volcanoes lie in a range from 0.13 gigaton to 0.44 gigaton per year (Gerlach, 1991; Varekamp et al., 1992; Allard, 1992; Sano and Williams, 1996; Marty and Tolstikhin, 1998). The preferred global estimates of the authors of these studies range from about 0.15 to 0.26 gigaton per year. The 35-gigaton projected anthropogenic CO2 emission for 2010 is about 80 to 270 times larger than the respective maximum and minimum annual global volcanic CO2 emission estimates. It is 135 times larger than the highest preferred global volcanic CO2 estimate of 0.26 gigaton per year (Marty and Tolstikhin, 1998).

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/climate.php
 
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