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That's the profile of any ponzi scheme.

You may want to research Ponzi schemes a bit more. If you bought Apple's IPO in 1980 - say $1,000 - you would have over $1.6 million dollars today. Being an early adopter/supporter does not make everything a Ponzi.

Of course, you will argue that Bitcoin is unlike a corporation since it does not have any tangible physical assets or products. That is a valid opinion, albeit one that I think is outdated in a modern digital world.

You can certainly choose to not own Bitcoin, however, I implore you to keep a tally of your purchasing power of $x dollars versus that of Bitcoin. Check back in 5, 10, 20 years. Find a graph of the purchasing power of $1 from 1900 to 2020 and report back.
 
Money, actual money, is supposed to lose a little value every year to encourage investing and spending. If inflation didn't exist there would be even more hoarding of money by the wealthiest, they would invest even less in companies, and that means economic activity would be crushed.

Not exactly. It's supposed to loose a little value every year to reduce the risk of falling into recession. Positive inflation allows central banks to run negative real interest rates in the event of falling demand and avoid a deflationary spiral. It also allows wages to adjust in the face of falling demand because people track their nominal wage not their real wage and for some reason think wages should always only go up.
 
Money, actual money, is supposed to lose a little value every year to encourage investing and spending. If inflation didn't exist there would be even more hoarding of money by the wealthiest, they would invest even less in companies, and that means economic activity would be crushed.

Bitcoiners can't understand this very basic concept.

They don't seem to mind being pumped, dumped and manipulated by a few dozen whales though. It's one big circle jerk of scams and cult mentality. All they want at the end of the day is MORE DOLLARS.

Are you aware that Bitcoin is programmatically inflating through at least year 2140? The money supply in Bitcoin is increasing by 6.25 BTC every 10 minutes currently. The block reward (new supply) is halved every few years, so while the inflation rate drops over time, it is still very much inflating for a long time - far beyond any of our lifetimes.

The difference is that the collective PEOPLE (miners + nodes + programmers + everyday joes) decide on the rules of the money supply, not a closed door meeting of the financial elite.
 
You can certainly choose to not own Bitcoin, however, I implore you to keep a tally of your purchasing power of $x dollars versus that of Bitcoin. Check back in 5, 10, 20 years. Find a graph of the purchasing power of $1 from 1900 to 2020 and report back.

Purchasing power of Bitcoin? What do you have the power to purchase with Bitcoin other than drugs or the encryption keys to get your own files back?

I'll tell you what: Dollars.

You can put dollars in and later take dollars out. Why can you take more dollars out than you put in? Because other people are putting dollars in. The only reason the value of Bitcoin is going up is because people after you are putting more dollars in. That is the definition of a Ponzi scheme. When the hype ends and people stop putting their dollars in the value of Bitcoin will level off or go down and later marks will lose money in the scam. When that starts to happen, people will pull their money out at a crazy rate and it all burns.

You may want to research Ponzi schemes a bit more. If you bought Apple's IPO in 1980 - say $1,000 - you would have over $1.6 million dollars today. Being an early adopter/supporter does not make everything a Ponzi.
No, buying an appreciating asset does not make a Ponzi scheme. But Bitcoin isn't an asset, it's a medium of exchange. When crypto was an alternative currency with an exchange rate it was a bit silly, but fine. It was an interesting experiment. When it started being discussed as an investment with returns, it left the rails.

Of course, you will argue that Bitcoin is unlike a corporation since it does not have any tangible physical assets or products. That is a valid opinion, albeit one that I think is outdated in a modern digital world.

What does modern or digital have to do with anything? Isn't that how a Ponzi scheme is marketed? Don't look at the man behind the curtain, this is new and special and too hard for you to understand but get in quick before the offer goes away!

Do people say things like, "getting into the Euro early is why I could afford my house?". Currency trading is boring by nature. If it's not, then something is very, very wrong.

Selling mortgage insurance is supposed to be boring by nature. Remember when it wasn't?
 
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Purchasing power of Bitcoin? What do you have the power to purchase with Bitcoin other than drugs or the encryption keys to get your own files back?

I'll tell you what: Dollars.

You can put dollars in and later take dollars out. Why can you take more dollars out than you put in? Because other people are putting dollars in. The only reason the value of Bitcoin is going up is because people after you are putting more dollars in. That is the definition of a Ponzi scheme. When the hype ends and people stop putting their dollars in the value of Bitcoin will level off or go down and later marks will lose money in the scam. When that starts to happen, people will pull their money out at a crazy rate and it all burns.

It is a misconception that Bitcoin is anonymous and useful for illicit transactions. Why? Because the blockchain is not only immutable, but it is also public record. It is an auditors or investigators dream come true. A public database of transaction records are incredibly useful for forensic analyses. Need examples? There are hundreds of them.

You can buy plenty of goods and services with Bitcoin, but I'd like to address your point of dollars. Of course! You can convert between many dozens of foreign currencies, Bitcoin included! Bitcoin does not inherently replace national fiat currencies - why? Because you still need those currencies for taxes and other local transactions. National fiat currencies do have a place in the world and they would be nearly impossible to replace without the explicit blessing of each respective nation.

But, what if you want to send money to your family in another country? Perhaps one that is underdeveloped and where banking access is not readily available. You could either go with Western Union OR you could use Bitcoin instantly and for low-cost. Bitcoin is great for remittances.

In regards, to the fluctuating value, simply research market fundamentals. Why do stocks go up and down? Why do other national currencies go up and down? Do some research and think critically about the difference between Ponzi schemes and market fundamentals. I'll continue this train of thought below in response to your other statement.

No, buying an appreciating asset does not make a Ponzi scheme. But Bitcoin isn't an asset, it's a medium of exchange. When crypto was an alternative currency with an exchange rate it was a bit silly, but fine. It was an interesting experiment. When it started being discussed as an investment with returns, it left the rails.

In modern terms, "medium of exchange" is used interchangeably with "currency". However, the U.S. and many other countries do not view or regulate Bitcoin as currency. If so, there would be no capital gains (1 BTC is always 1 BTC, thus no capital gains). Instead, it is widely seen as a COMMODITY. Now, we actually have common ground, I view Bitcoin as BOTH a currency AND a commodity. Unfortunately, the cryptocurrency industry that has spun out of Bitcoin is definitely full of scams promising returns, get rich quick, etc. You are 100% correct in this respect. I would not be surprised to see regulation crack down on other cryptocurrencies, but I suspect an exception will be carved out for Bitcoin - again due to its fundamentals. It is unlike Ethereum and other lesser known cryptocurrencies that operate as unregistered securities.


What does modern or digital have to do with anything? Isn't that how a Ponzi scheme is marketed? Don't look at the man behind the mirror, this is new and special and too hard for you to understand but get in quick before the offer goes away!

Do people say things like, "getting into the Euro early is why I could afford my house?". Currency trading is boring by nature. If it's not, then something is very, very wrong.

No, people would not say "getting into the Euro/dollar early is why I could afford my house" because inflation has eroded purchasing power in modern times. $100 in 1900 has the equivalent purchasing power of $3.06 today. I think what can be confusing is that the rise of a new global currency is going to be tumultuous. You don't have the "circuit breakers" or oversight of regulated/normal financial markets, at least not currently. It is why you see dramatic swings in value - from $200 in 2015 to $20,000 in 2017, back to $3,000 in 2019, and now today at $28,000+ in 2023. Who knows what the future brings, and a positive return certainly can never be promised. But who says currency trading is boring? Check out the chart for Russian rubles over the last 2 years - it has been wild. But back to my main point - as adoption grows from quite literally 2 people to millions/hundreds of millions/billions of people, one would expect value to grow since inflation rates in Bitcoin are quite low. They do not change based on economic conditions of countries or the whims of dictators, etc - they are programmatic and fixed on a set schedule. Price increases when more people buy and fewer people sell. You can only sell Bitcoin if you have first bought it. Thus, as adoption grows, price tends to increase until people sell. At some point one would expect market saturation and an equilibrium to be reached. At this point, perhaps it will operate more like a currency in that the value won't fluctuate as dramatically. At what point though is anyone's guess.

Back to market fundamentals: The value of Bitcoin - or anything - is determined based on what others are willing to pay for it. If everyone agrees Bitcoin is worthless, then indeed it is worthless. The market has determined Bitcoin is worth $28,000+ now. It is no different than other commodities or currencies - all are subjected to market forces.
 
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It is a misconception that Bitcoin is anonymous and useful for illicit transactions.
And yet it's what ransomware attackers seem to prefer, so...

For what it’s worth, fingerprints aren’t anonymous and criminals still use their fingers.

But, what if you want to send money to your family in another country? Perhaps one that is underdeveloped and where banking access is not readily available. You could either go with Western Union OR you could use Bitcoin instantly and for low-cost. Bitcoin is great for remittances.

Yes, crypto is one way of transferring money across borders. If all the hype around crypto was "lets migrant workers send money to their loved ones", I think I'd have less issue with it. But let's face it, remittances aren’t the main use of Bitcoin fortunately, because if it were then @ninethirty, paid for their house by taking money from a migrant worker’s family.

I think we’d all rather imagine they bought that house by taking money from a drug lord or deluded hipster.

In regards, to the fluctuating value, simply research market fundamentals. Why do stocks go up and down? Why do other national currencies go up and down? Do some research and think critically about the difference between Ponzi schemes and market fundamentals.

Explain to me the market fundamentals. How does more money come out of Bitcoin than went in?

In a stock you have an asset of value. You have a share of control that may be too small for you and I to use to exert influence but large shareholders can and that gives all of our shares value. Stocks are also a means of transmitting earnings from the company to the shareholders meaning more money comes out of the asset than goes in which increases its value. Sometimes shareholders prefer a company to reinvest the profits into growth with the expectation that the dividends will be larger in the future. When the company grows in value and gets bought out, the holders of the stock see the benefit.

Bitcoin doesn’t work that way. There is nothing of value and nothing to fundamentally change in value.

In modern terms, "medium of exchange" is used interchangeably with "currency". However, the U.S. and many other countries do not view or regulate Bitcoin as currency. If so, there would be no capital gains (1 BTC is always 1 BTC, thus no capital gains).

No government taxes the BTC value of your assets, they tax the gain in the local currency. If you buy and sell Euro, the US government taxes the US Dollar value of the gain.

I suspect an exception will be carved out for Bitcoin - again due to its fundamentals.
There’s that word again: fundamentals. You keep using it in different ways to serve different purposes but never actually assign meaning to it.

No, people would not say "getting into the Euro/dollar early is why I could afford my house" because inflation has eroded purchasing power in modern times.
Are you aware that Bitcoin is programmatically inflating through at least year 2140?
Say again?

the U.S. and many other countries do not view or regulate Bitcoin as currency.
I think what can be confusing is that the rise of a new global currency is going to be tumultuous
Is it or isn’t it a currency?

Currency trading is boring by nature. If it's not, then something is very, very wrong.
Check out the chart for Russian rubles over the last 2 years - it has been wild.
You make my point. Excellent example.

as adoption grows from quite literally 2 people to millions/hundreds of millions/billions of people, one would expect value to grow

Which is how a Ponzi scheme works.

As more money flows in from new rubes, the price goes up. As the price goes up, the rubes keep coming. When you run out of rubes, the price stops growing and everyone is holding digital wallets with a few bits but no value and no reason to expect it to grow in price anymore.

At some point one would expect market saturation and an equilibrium to be reached. At this point, perhaps it will operate more like a currency in that the value won't fluctuate as dramatically. At what point though is anyone's guess.

When you reach saturation with no hope for further ”adoption”, there’s no mechanism to increase the price anymore. People will have enormous sums tied up in what is essentially cash they can’t spend leaving them one option: sell it for something they can spend. When more people are selling than buying the price goes down and everyone runs for the exits.

A Ponzi scheme inflates until it runs out of new rubes then implodes.

Back to market fundamentals: The value of Bitcoin - or anything - is determined based on what others are willing to pay for it. If everyone agrees Bitcoin is worthless, then indeed it is worthless. The market has determined Bitcoin is worth $28,000+ now. It is no different than other commodities or currencies - all are subjected to market forces.

That is not what market fundamentals are. Yes, the current price of something is what someone is willing to pay for it. The height of a house of cards is measured by the number of cards in the stack. Turns out lots of people were willing to pay for international reply coupons back in the day— it didn’t make them fundamentally valuable.…
 
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On one side Bitcoin zealots earnestly implore me to secure my wealth but getting the feeling they just need another bag hodler, while the Bitcoin detractors earnestly inform me it is a no good Ponzi scheme but getting the feeling they just don’t want me to get in on a good thing. Decisions, decisions.
 
A useful and enduring financial system doesn’t require you to “get in early”

If you’re excited about getting in early, that’s a tacit admission that the people to come after you are going to get screwed and you know it.

Gold 2000 - 2023.jpg


Analogy: Imagine you are back in time in the year 2000 (Price of 1oz of GOLD around $300 USD that year), tell your friend that the 1oz of GOLD will be valued at $2,000 USD in the year 2023. What do you think your friend will do? make fun of you or accumulate many ounces of gold?

GOLD: the best physical financial protection asset that you must be excited to "get in early".
Bitcoin: the best digital financial protection asset that you must be excited to "get in early".

picc8787a927c42f993fb3f6e2d1c9f7db9.png


April 2023 1 BTC = $28,000 USD


GOLD usage history: 5000 years.
Bitcoin usage history: 14 years.

To learn the fundamentals of Bitcoin:
Go here: https://www.youtube.com/@aantonop/videos
Directly here:

Introduction to Bitcoin​

 
Love this! I miss the days when software contained Easter Eggs left by the "programmers." Even though computing was a business, it was fun and programmers were rebels. Nowadays, it is solely focused on profit and "developers" are just tools used by the corporations.

^ ‘He fights for the … user!’
 
Are you aware that Bitcoin is programmatically inflating through at least year 2140?

Should be obvious from my posts that I know more about this and the earliest days of this garbage than bag holders and cultists do.

The main beneficiaries of this are some of the worst people on the planet. Everyone else just bets on the scraps and goes mad holding the scraps.

The most hilarious part of "bitcoin is money" is that anyone using it has to declare a capital gains profit or loss every time they transact or spend it, and that's on top of paying on-chain and exchange fees. No wonder it's useless as money and almost nobody uses it for real world spending.
 
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Nice.


Legacy finance uses way more energy.

So do Christmas lights... and clothes dryers... and other things that are far less important than financial freedom.

If you don't think all the craziness that's going on in the world is reason enough to hedge against fiat currencies then stay out of it... but if you think there's a chance your government will fail you and "your" money is at risk, then consider Bitcoin.

21m max supply; no out of control printing/inflation.

Disinflationary; every 4 years, the issuance gets cut in half... commonly referred to as the halvening.

More divisible than any fiat currency; to 8 decimal places.

Open; anyone can access it.

Borderless; it's international.

Neutral; it doesn't care who the sender / receiver is.

Public; transparent and fully auditable.

Decentralized; mining participants are global and cannot make changes to the network without consensus.

Permissionless; send a transaction to anyone, anywhere at any time.

Censorship resistant; transactions cannot be reversed.


Everyone's welcome regardless of their politics, age, gender, religion or region. If you think there's no value in that and it's all just a pyramid scheme then I think you're crazy.

lol do you REALLY think mining any Bitcoin used less energy than several households out of a major metropolis’ block than Christmas lights?! Who are you trying to fool here?!

Are you discounting the hundreds di thousands of GPU server farms running 24/7 since it’s dawn?!

Also ANY monetary system with a finite supply less than 1:person on the planet seems to be a fools errand or a huge pyramid scheme to me. The underlying technology has some great potential and great use cases as shown by the he Etherium blockchain.

Furthermore seems like crypto’s value jumps on pure emotion based on said logo of the next crytpo because well it’s a different breed of a dog today than it was yesterday and too many people trying to get “in” is riding a PURE emotional bandwagon.

THE BEST idea of Bitcoin is for people to be not just their own stack holders but their own brokers to trade directly with one another. Basically crypto’s existence IS to remove the middle-man whom continually puts a hand in everyone’s pockets each transaction (over and above the governments hands for every purchase and sale you do). So then why the HELL are these crypto exchanges exist especially after 4+ MAJOR exchange losses and theft!!! Like

Like what’s the basic purchase of wearing shoes to to product your feet from damage and unsavoury elements. But hey let’s walk 500m uphill barefoot, starting with the first 10m with sharp gravel, then to nails and broken glass (non-tempered).

What ever happens to that last thief Sam of X coins. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Nice.


Legacy finance uses way more energy.

So do Christmas lights... and clothes dryers... and other things that are far less important than financial freedom.

If you don't think all the craziness that's going on in the world is reason enough to hedge against fiat currencies then stay out of it... but if you think there's a chance your government will fail you and "your" money is at risk, then consider Bitcoin.

21m max supply; no out of control printing/inflation.

Disinflationary; every 4 years, the issuance gets cut in half... commonly referred to as the halvening.

More divisible than any fiat currency; to 8 decimal places.

Open; anyone can access it.
Not quite. You need internet and sorry not EVERYONE on the planet has internet! So please don’t over generalize.
Borderless; it's international.
Seems quite restricted for use in a few countries actually.

Neutral; it doesn't care who the sender / receiver is.
Yes it does, you have to have some crypto to send it, right?!? You also should have a digital wallet and secure key if some type to access yours, right?

Public; transparent and fully auditable.

Does not quite seem to be the case for those that lost hundreds of millions from that dweeb Sam and his friends running the show. Many other precious bad actors have had ‘

Decentralized; mining participants are global and cannot make changes to the network without consensus.
But miners ARE making changes to the network by depositing crypto into production. Lie what’s the point of all these cyrtpo mining farms then.

I highly doubt ONKy 1 single person or entity created all the original Bitcoin and that was ALL we have. Someone smart enough would’ve purchased the entire lions share at 0.00002 value just out of simple greed and power. I mean after all it’s still a form of currency right!!?

Censorship resistant; transactions cannot be reversed.
And yet transactions CAN be restricted if said blocks of crypto are called into question for validity. Thats still a form of censorship.

Everyone's welcome regardless of their politics, age, gender, religion or region. If you think there's no value in that and it's all just a pyramid scheme then I think you're crazy.

Let’s say a church is accepting crypto for “offerings” and let’s say many country’s use crypto exclusively to his introducing taxes. By definition said church by its religion shouldn’t be taxed (USA+Canada so this with cash for one’s income and retail tax). I believe there is one religion that has an exception for capital gains not to be taxed (but I’m not too informed ,word of mouth, on that). So in its current state you’re right but as it expands and becomes a deflacto standard excepted you’ll see a few staples change.

Regarding Value:
Can you pay for valid and excepted life insurance policy using crypto? Will it pay out upon your untimely death to those notarized in your will?! And in the crypto of their choice at current market value?

Can you buy a house or condo or land with crypto? Can you directly invest in common and class A shares in any publicly traded stock, bonds or other securities?

Cryptos are still heavily volatile by every second, and the majority of the volatility is heavily based on emotion. Also the same inflation that affected the worlds monetary currencies also affected crypto in an exact mirrored affect for over 3 months. Near the end of last year, into early this year. It shouldn’t have should it?
 
My story in cryptocurrency is no different than anyone making a smart decision to get in early on a stock they see attracting future investors and rising in value.
100% of the money you made came from other gamblers who lost their money to you.

With a stock, the price and gains you enjoy are the result of the fundamental performance of the company and its revenue stream and profits.

Crypto is a negative sum system. There’s no money to be made that doesn’t come directly out of the pocket of later gamblers.

You can make money with a stock purely through dividends, never needing to sell it at all because with a profitable company there’s money coming in from the company’s profits and some of that revenue belongs to you as a shareholder. It’s not the same at all.
 
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