Apple Has 'Very Serious' DMA Issues, EU to Enforce Rules 'Soon'

[Victor Mortimer]

Not to be too simplistic, but who says that this is true? I am quite happy with the way that the Apple store exists. And, note, no body complained when it first began . . . and the rules have arguably not really change that much. But NOW, after they have created a large and enviable system organically, it is a problem.

Absolutely not true.

I've had a HUGE problem with it from the beginning. My first iPhone was jailbroken within minutes of the box being opened. My iPhone would be jailbroken now if untethered jailbreaks still worked.

It's MY iPhone, NOT Apple's iPhone, and they should have NO say about what software I install on MY iPhone.

I don't care about app stores at all. As far as I'm concerned, Apple's app store could take a 90% cut and only allow fluffy kitten petting apps as long as I can normally install software from any source of my choosing - which would NOT be Apple's stupid app store.

 

[frozencarbonite]

 

[wbeasley]

Consider a small country, say Singapore, if they were to just fine Apple based on the revenue earned in Singapore it would be peanuts and Apple could ignore it as cost of doing business. If they fine on global revenue suddenly apple has to pay attention.

Global companies are so big that they have to be fined based on global percentages otherwise they can choose not to change their behaviour. Apple isn't some little company with no power and influence, it is one of the most powerful corporate entities on earth, of course global revenue makes sense.

is the EU so insecure that thinking their 25% input to Apple sales isnt a big enough chunk to cause change by fining them for those sales?

more like overstepping and imposing EU ideas on other states outside their jurisdiction.
arrogant even.
if a $500m fine isnt enough to get Apple's attention then make it bigger ON SALES IN YOUR REGION.

if cost of doing business in the EU becomes a liability, Apple might get even more creative finding a solution.
personally, i would let EU users choose a standard Android install. problem solved. no cost either.

 

[gnipgnop]

Consider a small country, say Singapore, if they were to just fine Apple based on the revenue earned in Singapore it would be peanuts and Apple could ignore it as cost of doing business. If they fine on global revenue suddenly apple has to pay attention.

Global companies are so big that they have to be fined based on global percentages otherwise they can choose not to change their behaviour. Apple isn't some little company with no power and influence, it is one of the most powerful corporate entities on earth, of course global revenue makes sense.

Fines based on global revenue should have much higher standards for proof of harm than what the EU is using.

 

[wbeasley]

Absolutely not true.

I've had a HUGE problem with it from the beginning. My first iPhone was jailbroken within minutes of the box being opened. My iPhone would be jailbroken now if untethered jailbreaks still worked.

It's MY iPhone, NOT Apple's iPhone, and they should have NO say about what software I install on MY iPhone.

I don't care about app stores at all. As far as I'm concerned, Apple's app store could take a 90% cut and only allow fluffy kitten petting apps as long as I can normally install software from any source of my choosing - which would NOT be Apple's stupid app store.

so just jailbreak every phone you buy.

no one is stopping you. it's your phone. do what you want. you have already.

problem solved.

 

[davide_eu]

It's not harm it's the cost of doing business. Spotify/Epic wants to be on the Apple platform but also wants to have a way of not paying for, or paying less, for the privilege.

No, they don't want to be on that store - they want a user has the freedom to install their app without paying. the "transaction" is between the phone owner and Spotify, so there is no reason the cult should receive any money.

 

[davide_eu]

and the EU do not represent every country on the planet... they are not entitled to use their laws in other countries and should not set fines based on sales outside their own borders.

They are entitled to fine companies in EU using any measure they believe it is fair.

 

[davide_eu]

Don't get me wrong I agree with some of it. Internet Gatekeepers should be watched. But also companies should be paid for their technology that they developed. Epic for example just want access to the Billion potential clients for free. They wrapped it up in Free market BS... but they stand to make Billions $$$...

Are you a subscriber of Netflix or Disney+ (or any other pay-tv/streaming service)?

If so, don't you agree that the brand of your TV should get a percentage from Netflix/Disney+? You see Netflix/Disney+ using the TV created by somebody else!

 

[Victor Mortimer]

Because there are now laws against it. If it becomes illegal tomorrow to gamble or drive a car you don’t get to gamble or drive a car. That’s how the world works. Some americans in here really need to figure out that the US does not get to dictate how it works in the rest of the world.

Nope. Being against the law doesn't make it bad.

Apple's behavior with iDevice apps was ALWAYS bad. EU law finally caught up to the reality of that situation.

 

[wbeasley]

They are entitled to fine companies in EU using any measure they believe it is fair.

so why is it fair to fine based on global sales?

should they charge Apple tax on sales outside their country as well?

where exactly does the power of the EU end?

 

[gnipgnop]

No, they don't want to be on that store - they want a user has the freedom to install their app without paying. the "transaction" is between the phone owner and Spotify, so there is no reason the cult should receive any money.

Spotify has always wanted to be on the App Store for the ad-supported version. That's their biggest customer base. Free to download and Apple doesn't get a commission on the advertising Spotify sells.

Note that the EU is claiming that anti-steering was bad because App Store customers wouldn't know about cheaper alternatives yet Spotify's cheaper alternative has always been available on the App Store.

 

[wbeasley]

Spotify has always wanted to be on the App Store for the ad-supported version. That's their biggest customer base. Free to download and Apple doesn't get a commission on the advertising Spotify sells.

Note that the EU is claiming that anti-steering was bad because App Store customers wouldn't know about cheaper alternatives yet Spotify's cheaper alternative has always been available on the App Store.

Apple also doesnt get a cent from all the free games that are ad supported.

of course most are greedy and litter the app with ads making them unbearable.
they either get you to upgrade to a paid version or delete the app.

 

[wbeasley]

Well Apple making a little less money makes absolutely 0 difference to you or me. So wherever you’re from it should be pretty obvious that apple is not above the law. They’re just a business.

The takes in here are embarrassing.

wrong.

Apple being fined will lead to some consumers paying more to cover that fine.
Let's hope it is only the EU ones since it's their government causing this.

 

[macabrumorsab]

Well no, the user and purchaser hasn't paid for the Development APIs. they don't even have access to them you need a developer account. Currently $100 a year and developers like me have pay my 30% (and now 15%) feels happily to apple for the tools they provides to help me make money. In the bad old days of physical media, I was lucky to take home 30% The retailer took 50% straight off.

And the other companies, google, Samsung subsidise their money by selling you and and any information they can gain about you, via advertising.

How long do we need to read this API excuse. Without APIs, Apple would not be able to write their own Apps either. You don't invest allegedly billions in API. The API is a side-product of your OS. There exist no OS in the world without APIs.

If you don't offer your APIs to the rest, there won't be a single 3rd party App. This is ok. But without 3rd party Apps iPhone or iPads won't sell anymore. This is a matter of fact and not of interpretation.

In the context of this discussion, the products that Apple are selling are iPhones and iPads. They earn money with them.

But wanting a cut from everyone else's efforts is the behaviour of - I repeat it again and again- a damned PIMP. Yes, Apple is the biggest PIMP on our planet. That simple is it.

 

[wbeasley]

They needed a new mechanism to rein in the Big Tech as the current laws have proven to be inefficient. Countries make new laws all the time. Even the US is trying to get a new law passed to do the same, but it may not happen as the politicians can be easily bought there.

and new laws should be clear in their acceptable outcomes.
not vague.

tell Apple what you want and will allow and fees and percentages.

then Apple can decide to agree to that or choose a different route.

 

[Abazigal]

Are you a subscriber of Netflix or Disney+ (or any other pay-tv/streaming service)?

If so, don't you agree that the brand of your TV should get a percentage from Netflix/Disney+? You see Netflix/Disney+ using the TV created by somebody else!

Well, if we want to be pedantic, those streaming services likely paid the Smart TV manufacturer money to have their apps preinstalled. Remember those custom buttons on your remote? They are not labelled for free out of the generosity of the manufacturer.

 

[wbeasley]

How long do we need to read this API excuse. Without APIs, Apple would not be able to write their own Apps either. You don't invest allegedly billions in API. The API is a side-product of your OS. There exist no OS in the world without APIs.

If you don't offer your APIs to the rest, there won't be a single 3rd party App. This is ok. But without 3rd party Apps iPhone or iPads won't sell anymore. This is a matter of fact and not of interpretation.

In the context of this discussion, the products that Apple are selling are iPhones and iPads. They earn money with them.

But wanting a cut from everyone else's efforts is the behaviour of - I repeat it again and again- a damned PIMP. Yes, Apple is the biggest PIMP on our planet. That simple is it.

so software in physical stores is what?

devs get even less, some say 10%, of the retail price.

the Apple 15-30% seems like a great deal. many devs have said that on here.

 

[DaPhox]

But wanting a cut from everyone else's efforts is the behaviour of - I repeat it again and again- a damned PIMP. Yes, Apple is the biggest PIMP on our planet. That simple is it.

If Apple is a PIMP, what are you to Apple?

 

[wbeasley]

If Apple is a PIMP, what are you to Apple?

the John

 

[gnipgnop]

If you don't offer your APIs to the rest, there won't be a single 3rd party App. This is ok. But without 3rd party Apps iPhone or iPads won't sell anymore. This is a matter of fact and not of interpretation.

The fact is that app developers create apps for the platforms that are the most commercially viable. Example: game developers don't automatically release their games for both Windows and Mac. Most of the time, it's just for Windows specifically because that's the more commercially viable platform for their game. iOS is the most commercially viable platform for mobile apps.

 

[teodoro]

This is how the EU makes its money. Rape all foreign entities under the guise of consumer protection while actually hurting them. So when the coffers start running low tax, tax, fine, fine. Yet I wonder why are most EU Countries in a mess economically.

 

[turbineseaplane]

But wanting a cut from everyone else's efforts is the behaviour of - I repeat it again and again- a damned PIMP. Yes, Apple is the biggest PIMP on our planet. That simple is it.

Folks….we have a winner!
This is the most succinct and humorous and accurate depiction of Apple yet.

Apple is a pimp.
Well said!

🤣

 

[turbineseaplane]

I wonder if there is an argument to be made that Apple should be allowed to fully restrict anything you do with your phone…

If it’s not something they sell to you…. They either give it to you or rent it to you.

I’d be OK with that if they want to try it
I personally wouldn’t be a customer anymore, but hey, go for it

 

[WarmWinterHat]

This is how the EU makes its money. Rape all foreign entities under the guise of consumer protection while actually hurting them. So when the coffers start running low tax, tax, fine, fine. Yet I wonder why are most EU Countries in a mess economically.

The US makes it's money by raping the consumer under the guise of "shareholder value", and if they don't get enough, they use the taxpayer, via the federal government, to prop them up. They also use the federal government to export these rules to other countries.

Big Tech (and all the other Big Corporations) are a cancer. I applaud the EU for standing up to them, since the US government bows down to kiss the ring.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

so just jailbreak every phone you buy.

no one is stopping you. it's your phone. do what you want. you have already.

problem solved.

Yes, they ARE stopping me. Apple has made jailbreaking functionally impractical. And THAT should be illegal.

In any case, "jailbroken" should be the DEFAULT condition of ANY computing device. And yes, that includes game consoles. It should be possible for the device owner to install ANY software of their choosing, the manufacturer should have ZERO control after the sale. If the device owner wants to say "Oh please, mommy Apple, I'm too stupid to make my own choices, please let me give you control of my choices that I'm too stupid to make for myself!" then that should be an after-sale option, but it should be worded to make sure that the customer understands that they're belittling themselves and admitting their own stupidity.

So no. The problem is NOT solved. And it's unfortunately, much like the right to repair, going to take the force of government to fix it because megacorporations won't do the right thing on their own.