Apple Highlights Low Fragmentation Among iOS Devices in Direct Jab at Android

Here comes fragmentation

I will not upgrade to iOS7. Many people will be jailbreaking iPhones just so they can get some decent icons. I really think iOS has reached its peak at around version 6... I cannot believe that Apple deliberately made their interface uglier than Android's. I will never get over this.... Never.
 
pirg said:
Loaded how? Ignore the subjective "little problem, big problem, huge problem"and note that when given only one option for "not a problem at all" only 14% choose that option.

Developing for android is a headache and that should be obvious even without these surveys.
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How can you ignore the subjects of little problem, big problem, huge problem when there was only one option of no problem, surely you can see the loaded survey. A better survey would have been problem or no problem, why do you think that they loaded it with so many options against "no problem"? Because it was loaded to get the result they wanted for their headline. It's that simple.
 
daveathall said:
How can you ignore the subjects of little problem, big problem, huge problem when there was only one option of no problem, surely you can see the loaded survey. A better survey would have been problem or no problem, why do you think that they loaded it with so many options against "no problem"? Because it was loaded to get the result they wanted for their headline. It's that simple.
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I'm sorry so you're saying that those developers don't have a problem with fragmentation and just answered that way just cuz?

If fragmentation was not a problem why would android devs report that it was?
 
I'm a software tester for Mobile apps (Android and iOS environment) for Banks and Money Transfer compagnies here in Europe.

Developers can still use a simulator and a minimum of smartphones for the creation of apps.
Testers on the other hand have to simulate real life usage and that means that I have 5 nexus series smartphones, 4 nexus series tablets, 4 iPhones, 2 iPad Mini and 2 iPads to test an App correct.

When the Android app functionallity is "finished", I need to sent it to an external testing partner where it is run through the (cherry picked) devices of Samsung, HTC, LG..., each running their personal flavour of Android.

What I see is that for big companies/critical apps at the release the versions for both OS are just as stable, but it takes between 50% and 80% longer to finalize the Android versions.
Over several projects, that is a huge extra cost in development.

Luckily, since we develop Banking Apps, we can be sure that noone installs it from another place than the Google Play store or the Apple Store.
 
pirg said:
I'm sorry so you're saying that those developers don't have a problem with fragmentation and just answered that way just cuz?

If fragmentation was not a problem why would android devs report that it was?
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I was responding to the loaded survey that you put out, you cant see that, honestly? why would they put out so many options. Do you honestly believe it was a fair survey? Why would they not put "problem" or "no problem". They then lump together every answer to go against the "No problem" option. Are you so naive that you actually believe that the survey wasn't manufactured in a way to get a certain answer? really? If so I'm all out of argument.

It is like voting for 2 politicians, would you allow 4 differing options be added together for one politician to give a percentage vote and only one for the other? or would you like the vote to be politician A or Politician B?

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pirg said:
I'm sorry so you're saying that those developers don't have a problem with fragmentation and just answered that way just cuz?

If fragmentation was not a problem why would android devs report that it was?
Click to expand...

One has also got to question the validity of a survey that adds up to 101%:rolleyes:
 
tobassist said:
Of course when Apple are being honest about iOS fragmentation they tell you this...

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht5457
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You're completely missing the main points that have been brought up as problems due to fragmentation and they have nothing to do with features supported by different models of iPhones:

1. Security
2. New APIs for developers to use


-- 1. Even if the iPhone 4 does not support Siri or Panorama photos - it still benefits from all the security fixes that have been added in iOS 6.1.3 and it will benefit from iOS 7 security fixes.

Using Android 2.3 is like using Windows 98 to browse the web - not very safe.

--2. As far as I know, even the iPhone 3GS and 4 support almost all (or really all?) the new APIs in iOS 6 so a developer can write an app for a single API, without having to make changes for each model in regard of APIs.

If you want to display maps in your app, you just use the new Apple Maps API and voilá - Your app will display a map, doesn't matter if it's an iPhone 3GS or an iPhone 5.

This has nothing to do with the features of iOS each device supports.

It could have an impact, when Apple would release an API to support Siri inside third-party apps - because that would of course be something that developers couldn't use on the iPhone 4 - BUT...

There's no such API in iOS 7 and if we will see something like that, it will be in iOS 8 (or later) - a year after Apple will stop selling that model and after Apple will cease to support it.

So while older models may not get all the new end user features of iOS, they still get all the new developer features, which makes it much easier for developers to write apps.
 
daveathall said:
I was responding to the loaded survey that you put out, you cant see that, honestly? why would they put out so many options. Do you honestly believe it was a fair survey? Why would they not put "problem" or "no problem". They then lump together every answer to go against the "No problem" option. Are you so naive that you actually believe that the survey wasn't manufactured in a way to get a certain answer? really? If so I'm all out of argument.

It is like voting for 2 politicians, would you allow 4 differing options be added together for one politician to give a percentage vote and only one for the other? or would you like the vote to be politician A or Politician B?
Click to expand...

And if you supported politician A and his ideals would you vote for politician B just because there were more options for him? I'm not following your logic. Yes, there are more options for it being a problem, but if it wasn't a problem at all why would android developers report that it is? That's the part of your politician scenario that makes no sense.

If I decide I'm voting republican, would seeing a democrat and an independent on the ballot make me say "hmm more options against republican, I'll switch my vote"...I'm not understanding how you'd explain that...?
 
pirg said:
And if you supported politician A and his ideals would you vote for politician B just because there were more options for him? I'm not following your logic. Yes, there are more options for it being a problem, but if it wasn't a problem at all why would android developers report that it is? That's the part of your politician scenario that makes no sense.

If I decide I'm voting republican, would seeing a democrat and an independent on the ballot make me say "hmm more options against republican, I'll switch my vote"...I'm not understanding how you'd explain that...?
Click to expand...

Your quoted survey adds up to 101% so is invalid.:rolleyes:
 
daveathall said:
Your quoted survey adds up to 101% so is invalid.:rolleyes:
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Oh brother...:rolleyes:...it's called rounding...note the article says roughly 87%

You ask me to provide a link and then you come up with these ridiculous reasons to try to debunk it. Why not just be honest and say you're not ready to believe it because of your bias?
 
pirg said:
Oh brother...:rolleyes:...it's called rounding...note the article says roughly 87%

You ask me to provide a link and then you come up with these ridiculous reasons to try to debunk it. Why not just be honest and say you're not ready to believe it because of your bias?
Click to expand...

Rounding? give me a break.:rolleyes:

I believe it to be your bias, I have plenty of Apple products and think that they are brilliant, you come up with a loaded survey to try and justify your purchases, and a throw away comment about the quality of apps on Android when you are obviously spouting heresay.
 
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Lol the article clearly states that these are rough numbers indicating rounding, but the more logical explanation to you is conspiracy theories about loaded surveys.
 
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First of all huge Apple guy with just about every device they make ... I am an early adopter and get many products on launch day. I often upgrade Macbook Pro's for minor processor bumps ... things like that.

I will say knowing alot of people with iphones that one reason for upgrading to the newest version of iOS is what seems like the lack of support for older iOS from apps. I know friends that have apps crash constantly on older versions of iOS which sort of forces them to upgrade.

Also with the newer over the air updates it is alot easier to upgrade.

I will say this though ... having iOS7 on my iPhone 5 ... I think this graph is about to look alot different. I don't think iOS 7 will be as big of a success unless some changes are made and things tweaked.
 
daveathall said:
Have you got links to these surveys or the posts of the developers that say it is a problem? And specifically making the apps "lower quality" as stated in your first post? Have you had a flagship Android phone recently?
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Too bad Android isn't made up of only flagship phones. There are a lot of stinkers out there.

162 million Android phones were sold last quarter.

Samsung Galaxy S flagships were estimated to be about 20 million. And when you add in other companies' flagships... I doubt it's more than 30 million flagships total.

So last quarter... 30 million flagships... 132 million non-flagships.

And you gotta guess that the majority of those non-flagship phones are basic Android phones... not running the current version of Android.

That's the problem.
 
All valid points but it won't matter. The Android train has left the station and is accelerating. I still remember when people started buying cheap Intel Celeron PCs running XP because they were half the cost of anything else out there. Yes, iOS offers a better experience for users and especially for developers. But the cost advantage that Android has on the lower end will ensure that it will get the majority of share which will force developers to write apps for it. Even if it is more difficult.
 
Dmunjal said:
All valid points but it won't matter. The Android train has left the station and is accelerating. I still remember when people started buying cheap Intel Celeron PCs running XP because they were half the cost of anything else out there. Yes, iOS offers a better experience for users and especially for developers. But the cost advantage that Android has on the lower end will ensure that it will get the majority of share which will force developers to write apps for it. Even if it is more difficult.
Click to expand...

Yes of course this is true it's just bizzare when ppl say that there is no difficulty in developing for android. It's like they refuse to concede any point whatsoever just cause. Of course it's harder to develop for android.. of course android developers are not going to stop developing for it.
 
Michael Scrip said:
Too bad Android isn't made up of only flagship phones. There are a lot of stinkers out there.

162 million Android phones were sold last quarter.

Samsung Galaxy S flagships were estimated to be about 20 million. And when you add in other companies' flagships... I doubt it's more than 30 million flagships total.

So last quarter... 30 million flagships... 132 million non-flagships.

And you gotta guess that the majority of those non-flagship phones are basic Android phones... not running the current version of Android.

That's the problem.
Click to expand...

I disagree, if there were 132 million (your numbers) people a quarter who had a problem, then the internet, news etc would be awash with complaints, but they are not, nowhere near it. Like I said in my first entry on this topic (post 360), it only seems to be a problem for those without an Android phone and members of boards like this one.

Also, like I said in my first post, I change my phone every 2 years, during that time I probably get 2 updates, so for me and a lot of owners of Android phones, again, it's not a problem.

I do agree that there are a "lot of stinkers out there" but if one is comparing products (iPhone) one should at least compare it to like products (Flagship Android phones) It is not the fault of Apples competitors that Apple does not compete in the lower end of the market. :)
 
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daveathall said:
I disagree, if there were 132 million (your numbers) people a quarter who had a problem, then the internet, news etc would be awash with complaints, but they are not, nowhere near it. Like I said in my first entry on this topic (post 360), it only seems to be a problem for those without an Android phone and members of boards like this one.

Also, like I said in my first post, I change my phone every 2 years, during that time I probably get 2 updates, so for me and a lot of owners of Android phones, again, it's not a problem.

I do agree that there are a "lot of stinkers out there" but if one is comparing products (iPhone) one should at least compare it to like products (Flagship Android phones) It is not the fault of Apples competitors that Apple does not compete in the lower end of the market. :)
Click to expand...

I never said 132 million people had problems. I said a total of 162 million Android phones were sold last quarter... and I'm guessing only 30 million of them were the popular well-supported flagship Android phones. (it could be less)

If you had to guess... how many Android phones sold over the last 3 months will ever see the next version of Android?

You buy decent phones that will be supported with two updates... but what about the less-popular cheaper phones sold in some of the huge, yet poorer, countries around the world?

Like I said... there are phones being sold today with Ice Cream Sandwich... so they're already a version behind. And some of those phones sell for around $100 anyway. Do you think they will get the next two versions of Android in the next two years for free? Probably not.

And those types of phones make up the majority of Android... not the popular flagship phones.
 
Michael Scrip said:
I never said 132 million people had problems. I said a total of 162 million Android phones were sold last quarter... and I'm guessing only 30 million of them were the popular well-supported flagship Android phones. (it could be less)

If you had to guess... how many Android phones sold over the last 3 months will ever see the next version of Android?

You buy decent phones that will be supported with two updates... but what about the less-popular cheaper phones sold in some of the huge, yet poorer, countries around the world?

Like I said... there are phones being sold today with Ice Cream Sandwich... so they're already a version behind. And some of those phones sell for around $100 anyway. Do you think they will get the next two versions of Android in the next two years for free? Probably not.

And those types of phones make up the majority of Android... not the popular flagship phones.
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Your last words when you originally quoted me were "Thats the problem", my post was to portray that for the most part, it isn't a "problem" to those that have bought the lower end phones, if it was, we would hear about it in no uncertain terms via press/media etc. I have no argument that, as you say, a lot of Android phones are running older versions of the OS, I agree, my point is though, that the owners of those phones do not have a problem with the fact that their phones are running an older version which brings me back to my post 360 which I maintain.

Perhaps we are debating two differing parts of the argument, I honestly do not have a defence against the fact that a lot of Android phones (The majority?) are running off older OS's, my point is that the perception is that their owners find that this a problem, which IMHO is untrue. :)
 
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daveathall said:
Your last words when you originally quoted me were "Thats the problem", my post was to portray that for the most part, it isn't a "problem" to those that have bought the lower end phones, if it was, we would hear about it in no uncertain terms via press/media etc. I have no argument that, as you say, a lot of Android phones are running older versions of the OS, I agree, my point is though, that the owners of those phones do not have a problem with the fact that their phones are running an older version which brings me back to my post 360 which I maintain.

Perhaps we are debating two differing parts of the argument, I honestly do not have an argument against the fact that a lot of Android phones (The majority?) are running off older OS's, my point is that the perception is that their owners find that this a problem, which IMHO is untrue. :)
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Ah... I see.

Maybe I should have summed up my first post with "that's the issue... phones running something other than the current version of Android"

I didn't mean to say people have a problem.

And you're right... someone using an $80 phone running Gingerbread in China probably isn't missing all the new APIs in Jellybean.

It's nice that you get 2 updates and that you're not affect by fragmentation.... but not everyone is that lucky.

Not everybody needs the current version of Android though... but those Android version charts are real. And we like to talk about them :)
 
Michael Scrip said:
Ah... I see.

Maybe I should have summed up my first post with "that's the issue... phones running something other than the current version of Android"

I didn't mean to say people have a problem.

And you're right... someone using an $80 phone running Gingerbread in China probably isn't missing all the new APIs in Jellybean.

It's nice that you get 2 updates and that you're not affect by fragmentation.... but not everyone is that lucky.

Not everybody needs the current version of Android though... but those Android version charts are real. And we like to talk about them :)
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Yep, I think we agree. :)
 
pirg said:
Loaded how? Ignore the subjective "little problem, big problem, huge problem"and note that when given only one option for "not a problem at all" only 14% choose that option.

Developing for android is a headache and that should be obvious even without these surveys.
Click to expand...

I'm not about to get into an argument over the problems of Android fragmentation (cuz honestly, I don't know that much about it beyond that it exists), but the question itself is pretty loaded. It's like...

How often do you beat your wife? Please check one:

_Hourly
_Weekly
_Daily
_Monthly
_I've never beat my wife, exactly...

It's worded so it looks like everyone has a problem with Android fragmentation. Unless you've had zero problems (and no one ever has zero problems in programming, I'm sure), you're saying Android fragmentation is a problem. Period. According to the poll, you either have problems or you don't.
 
Oletros said:
Don't you have a survey new than one from 2 years ago where the last version was Gingerbread?
Click to expand...

If I did I would post it, oletros. Is that your way of debunking it? It's the latest year where data is available. Do you have a newer survey disputing it? That's usually how it works.

Being two years old doesn't automatically make it invalid unless you have newer data making it invalid. Do you? I didn't think so.
 
pirg said:
If I did I would post it, oletros. Is that your way of debunking it? It's the latest year where data is available. Do you have a newer survey disputing it? That's usually how it works.
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Debunking? Why? it is what it is, a survey from two years ago and it only talks about Android situation pre Honeycomb and doesn't tell anything about the today situation.

pirg said:
Being two years old doesn't automatically make it invalid unless you have newer data making it invalid. Do you? I didn't think so.
Click to expand...

If you want to believe that, believe that.
 
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