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Yawn.

It's not that I don't care about the environment. I do.

It's that most of this stuff makes no real difference, nor will it ever. I hate that Greenpeace and other groups use the force of public perception to get companies to do stuff like this instead of spending their time innovating and doing things that, through technological change, protect the environment.

You're right that most of this stuff is lip service but the conversation has to start before anyone will consider innovating in the name of conservation and the planet. Apple has changed the way smartphones, computers, retail stores, music and tablets are made and consumed. Some other large companies have followed their lead. I don't see any reason why they can't lead this environmental charge as innovators too.
 
Way to grossly oversimplify the amount of research, innovation, and effort that goes into a $5 billion project.

Exactly. This is a simple video made to get quick ideas across to an audience with no architectural or technical background in the building industries.

Norman Foster has led the way in high-tech architecture since the mid-century and has always continued to rethink his approaches. Always on the forefront of using technology to help building performance and functionality for both use and sustainability. Implementing both active and passive (and traditional) sustainable measures in synergy results in a much high performance overall.

Foster's firm is often looked at as a large, corporate architecture firm. However, VERY similar to Apple, it started in his own home office with a handful of people who had a vision of achieving a harmonious balance of aesthetic and performance using, no, creating the latest innovations in their respective fields.

There was a reason Norman Foster was picked to design the Apple campus. He and his team are among the best equipped in the profession today for this specific task.
 
Oblivious on bikes

Oh wonderful, another thousand oblivious idiots pedaling around Cupertino.
 
Do you disagree with his premise?

Example: Apple is estimated to have spent $5 Billion on campus 2.

Common sense dictates that if this money was spent on researching more energy efficient assembly techniques, or sourcing more renewable materials, or developing more power-conscious devices it would have a better net impact on our environment than building a $5Billion building with a few bikes and "drought-resistant plants" would.

Part of that spending is on the research, besides this building is more efficient then the last

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There is a lot of idealized goals in this project. However, when it comes down to building and working in it, Mother Nature has a bitch slap ready that Steve's legacy Reality Distortion Field will not handle. A few points in mind.

The reason why most office buildings and factories are sealed are for not just HVAC units to function properly but also to keep out insects, pollen and other "natural" impingement that interferes with work at hand. Office equipment, especially the devices that Apple manufactures, do not function well outdoors.

When I saw the artwork for "natural" air flows, the first impression I had was the labor cost to keep these vents and windows clean will be very high with weekly if not daily maintenance and upkeep. Also, when California's rainy season starts, who knows how much water will get into these vents!

While solar power has come a long way, I do not see a few acres of solar cells powering this whole campus. I'm sure in the plans there is a deep and well hidden power line tapping into the PG&E grid to cover cloudy days.

I applaud the company bicycles on the campus but I see battery powered golf carts, segways and other vehicles a lot more useful than peddling around campus.

My take is that a year after this campus is built, we'll see a lot of retrofits toward more traditional office amenities. My guess is the open air venting will be the first thing to go after some equipment is lost due to weather or someone files a work hazard calm when rain or pollen comes into the building.

You do know they can close these vents?

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Oh wonderful, another thousand oblivious idiots pedaling around Cupertino.

Idiots yet they are contributing to the success of one of the most valuable companys in the world
 
Apple is estimated to have spent $5 Billion on campus 2.

Common sense dictates that if this money was spent on researching more energy efficient assembly techniques, or sourcing more renewable materials, or developing more power-conscious devices it would have a better net impact on our environment than building a $5Billion building with a few bikes and "drought-resistant plants" would.

Common sense? That's pretty subjective. Apple are doing just fine in making their products highly recyclable, and they're certainly doing a damn sight more than their competitors.

If you believe that the current assembly techniques are inefficient, then you're unaware of why they're sophisticated in the first place. Bear in mind that the unibody process exists primarily to replace multiple parts with just a single chassis, thus reducing the volume of raw materials used in a product's construction, and being more efficient.

Also, you're obviously misguided about how "a few bikes", which are replacing daily vehicle emissions, can have an amazing impact on the environment.

Projects like Campus 2 are worth far more than providing a better workplace; they prove what is technologically possible today and set the standards for others to follow.
 
From the video: "Benzene is widely used in various industries. Sporting goods, printing, and electronic products, as well as finishing materials contain benzene."

So, it's hardly and Apple-exclusively-ZOMG-DOOM!!!!! situation. Granted: Apple should do something about this, and it should do something as soon as possible (like today). But it's and endemic problem, pervasive to numerous companies in several industries. If you want to target Apple for this situation, don't forget to include all the other companies that indulge in the same behavior.

I entirely agree that all those other companies should do something but I buy Apple and so have a special interest in what Apple does (which is why we're all on this apple forum)

Also I suspect that there are more chances of Apple actually doing something about it and perhaps by setting an example those other companies might be more inclined to follow

Apple has lead in everything else so it is my hope they'd lead in this
 
This is what you said right? " If you don't get the message Apple sends you, you're not worthy of their products"
Confused by what? You're the one that stated if someone doesn't get Apple's environmental message they aren't worthy of their products. I said that's bunk. Whether someone get's the environmental message or not has nothing to do with their worthiness of purchasing tech gadgets.

But for the sake of removing my confusion, could you tell me what you meant exactly. I am always open to learning something new.

Ill happily do so. I meant that people "should" be worthy of what they buy (my opinion) and not "must". Obviously everyone can buy whatever they please, why would I address an obvious example. I was rather referring to Apple's stance and its message that Steve Jobs so eagerly tried to convey to the world. He knew that he can't change everyone's thinking in a day (or at all), but he knew that Apple had to be a role model in the reasoning behind making a productive tool that connects people together. I dont see in Steve Jobs a god or anything, but the very thing that Apple stands for is what actually captured my attention, away from Nokia and Samsung (back in the day). So what i meant is that looking at the whole picture, that guy's reply wasn't worthy of the product, especially replying on an important matter which focuses almost entirely on the environment and nature. Its even represented in each and every keynote they make. Thats why Apple stands out from all the others. Anyhow this is going a lil off the rails ;) lets not make it more complicated than it already is. Cheers mate
 
^^ That is so sad I am darn near at a loss for words. RDF in full effect. The way it works in the real world where most of us live is we decide if products are worthy of our dollars. Apple sells tech gadgets. They don't give them away to the worthy (what does that even mean... worthy:confused:).

You don't have to be worthy to walk into Walmart or Radio Shack to buy an iPhone. You just need cash.

You're missing the point. Corporations can be SO wasteful in their day-to-day operations, usually because of the cost factor. For example, here in Canada, I was *shocked* to discover that the Great Canadian Superstore threw the plastic hangers for the shirts that they sold in the garbage, rather than reusing or recycling them. Just tossed in the garbage. Thousands of perfectly good plastic hangers every day... single use, gone. It was a corporate policy because it was "cheaper" to do that. That is disgusting! but nobody there cared. They just did what they were told. Apple is bold enough to rise above such behaviour and set a standard for the world to rise to. That's what they have always aimed to achieve. Corporations like Samsung are more interested in selling the *most* products, that's a fact.

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My take is that a year after this campus is built, we'll see a lot of retrofits toward more traditional office amenities. My guess is the open air venting will be the first thing to go after some equipment is lost due to weather or someone files a work hazard calm when rain or pollen comes into the building.

Can I ask what you do for a living? If you're smarter than the engineers on this project, then why aren't you one of them?

Rain is very unlikely, just look at the design. And moving air is the best way to deal with moisture. As for pollen, well that's a good observation. So those people would never go outside?
 
Do you disagree with his premise?

Example: Apple is estimated to have spent $5 Billion on campus 2.

Common sense dictates that if this money was spent on researching more energy efficient assembly techniques, or sourcing more renewable materials, or developing more power-conscious devices it would have a better net impact on our environment than building a $5Billion building with a few bikes and "drought-resistant plants" would.

There is a lot of development going into the design of this building. Technology and techniques developed here can be implemented into other structures going forward.

Sometimes you need someone, like Apple have here, to show others what's possible. You can't deny that at the very least Apple has put a tremendous effort into the design of their new facility. That in itself cannot be said for many; cheap to construct usually overrides. Stuff the environment and working environment.

Apple leads. Others follow.
 
That bike icon is an insult to insults. They'd better work that out before iOS8. That could easily be appropriated by another department and subsequently baked into final product. We've had enough and that cruel fate would twist us up for entire generations.

Time for Susan Kare to do an intervention over there.
 
Do you disagree with his premise?

Example: Apple is estimated to have spent $5 Billion on campus 2.

Common sense dictates that if this money was spent on researching more energy efficient assembly techniques, or sourcing more renewable materials, or developing more power-conscious devices it would have a better net impact on our environment

Which they already do as well... so your point is?
 
Do you disagree with his premise?

Example: Apple is estimated to have spent $5 Billion on campus 2.

Common sense dictates that if this money was spent on researching more energy efficient assembly techniques, or sourcing more renewable materials, or developing more power-conscious devices it would have a better net impact on our environment than building a $5Billion building with a few bikes and "drought-resistant plants" would.

You misunderstood the point. Everything in this building is an extreme use of current technology and of our knowledge of the environment. For instance, a natural cooling system than functions 75% of the year is pretty incredible if you ask me. The fact that 80% is now green space will greatly reduce stress and improve the quality of products being pumped out of Cupertino. It's not just a random building with bikes and trees.

Apple has over a 10s of billions to spend on R&D of renewable materials and developing more power-conscious devices but at some point you need to stop and set a standard. Once Apple has this building in place, every future building for every large corporation will be compared against this one.

Does that make any sense?
 
Do you disagree with his premise?

Example: Apple is estimated to have spent $5 Billion on campus 2.

Common sense dictates that if this money was spent on researching more energy efficient assembly techniques, or sourcing more renewable materials, or developing more power-conscious devices it would have a better net impact on our environment than building a $5Billion building with a few bikes and "drought-resistant plants" would.


Lol... by that logic we shouldn't ever spend money or resources creating anything new ever.
 
Ill happily do so. I meant that people "should" be worthy of what they buy (my opinion) and not "must". Obviously everyone can buy whatever they please, why would I address an obvious example. I was rather referring to Apple's stance and its message that Steve Jobs so eagerly tried to convey to the world. He knew that he can't change everyone's thinking in a day (or at all), but he knew that Apple had to be a role model in the reasoning behind making a productive tool that connects people together. I dont see in Steve Jobs a god or anything, but the very thing that Apple stands for is what actually captured my attention, away from Nokia and Samsung (back in the day). So what i meant is that looking at the whole picture, that guy's reply wasn't worthy of the product, especially replying on an important matter which focuses almost entirely on the environment and nature. Its even represented in each and every keynote they make. Thats why Apple stands out from all the others. Anyhow this is going a lil off the rails ;) lets not make it more complicated than it already is. Cheers mate

That's cool. We will just agree to disagree. You see something in Apple that I don't. I hope that we're all worthy.
 
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Yawn.

It's not that I don't care about the environment. I do.

No - you don’t care about the environment, and your remark shows how utterly ignorant of your remark. It almost promotes this “I don’t give a **** and no one will make a difference”, but in this case, it’s an entire company showing that they not only care, but are doing something about it. It reminds me of the idiots that turn everything about alternative energy into a political argument, as if investing in battery technology is a bad thing. It’s call R&D, and yes, there are setbacks, but that’s how you move forward.

Get real will you. This is a good thing and you are putting it down.
 
You're missing the point. Corporations can be SO wasteful in their day-to-day operations, usually because of the cost factor. For example, here in Canada, I was *shocked* to discover that the Great Canadian Superstore threw the plastic hangers for the shirts that they sold in the garbage, rather than reusing or recycling them. Just tossed in the garbage. Thousands of perfectly good plastic hangers every day... single use, gone. It was a corporate policy because it was "cheaper" to do that. That is disgusting! but nobody there cared. They just did what they were told. Apple is bold enough to rise above such behaviour and set a standard for the world to rise to. That's what they have always aimed to achieve. Corporations like Samsung are more interested in selling the *most* products, that's a fact.

To the contrary, I see the point exactly as it is. My quote relates specifically to keterboy's assertion that people should be worthy of buying Apple products because of their environmental efforts. I said, and still say that's silly. Apple sells consumer products. No one has to be worthy of a consumer product. Can Apple be lauded for their green initiatives? Yes. Can a person want to buy Apple instead of another company because of their environmental stance? Again, yes. But that in no way correlates to selling products where the consumer has to be deemed worthy to purchase them. That's asinine. There are no dots that connect those two things.
 
My thoughts, You are being trollish. Nothing about biofuels mentioned in teh article. But I will take your bait and point out that the article dings CORN ETHANOL, not all biofuels.
Of course we have based our biofuel efforts on corn in the US because it is already a gigantic part of agriculture. But there are better less intensive sources of biofuel. Hemp, sugar beet, sugar cane and many others are easier to farm without multiple sprayings of insecticide and herbicide. And most of the alternatives do not need the intensive farming that corn does.
Every pass of the tractor or flight of the cropduster burns gas so you want to use biofuel sources that you pretty much scatter and grow, not ones that need handholding the whole way.
 
Apple will probably need to buy a deodorant company. If the AC is off most of the time, its going to smell in that building. :eek:
 
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