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they say they're not, but they most definately sound like patent trolls

You couldnt be more wrong. How is a person or entity that invents new tech and files for a patent supposed to protect their invention? Large corps steal their ideas or infringe on their patents, and these little guys have to sue.

Hypothetical...I'm an engineer and small time inventor in my spare time. Lets say I invent an electronic widget in my basement, I spend my life savings developing this widget. So I file for several patents on it and they're approved. I then take my widget to all the major players in the consumer electronics world...Samsung, Apple, Dell, HP, IBM, etc. They all turn me down and run me out of their offices. Yet, 4-5 years later products that incorporate my patents start to hit the market. I'd have to sue. You'd call me a patent troll. You'd be completely wrong.

You Apple fanboys are ridiculous. You'll call this company that invested tens of millions of $$$ developing their product and patents a patent troll simply because they sue Apple. Yet, you'll stand there with a straight face and defend Apple suing everybody under the sun for making a device that's rectangular with round corners. Like Apple invented that shape. UGH.
 
This is pretty much the textbook definition of a patent troll - company acquires other company for patents, does not make a product, and then starts suing others for patent infringement.

And exactly what is the problem with that? It is a question of whether Apple has infringed the patent not the motives of the plaintiff
 
This is pretty much the textbook definition of a patent troll - company acquires other company for patents, does not make a product, and then starts suing others for patent infringement.
Troll or not, it is a question of whether Apple infringed the patent not psychoanalyzing the motives of the plaintiff

The company's market cap is $31,000,000. Pocket change for Apple.

https://www.google.com/finance?q=VPLM&ei=ugQyV_L4EYmVeeynhNAJ

$0.10 per share as I write this.

http://www.voip-pal.com

This could be a pump and dump lawsuit. Volume is in hundreds of thousands of shares per day.
Even if the company is worth $2, if Apple is found guilty of copyright infringement, they will bleed the billions
[doublepost=1462972093][/doublepost]Does everyone recall Apple suing a Chinese company over the name IPHONE?
Apple claimed to have had the name patented in 2002 and the first iPhone came out in 2007. So, over those 5 years, were they trolling?
 
This is pretty much the textbook definition of a patent troll - company acquires other company for patents, does not make a product, and then starts suing others for patent infringement.

Calling someone a patent troll usually also requires that they didn't invent the stuff they're trying to license, but simply bought it.

You know, like the way that Apple and its cohorts bought up all those Nortel patents, then found out they weren't that good for defense, and "sold" them to a patent troll consortium they created just to investigate and sue other companies.

In this case, the company and its board is made up of the actual inventors, including people involved in the IP that they later bought.

Basically, it's a group of very smart people who actually invented and patented related things, and pooled their resources to be more powerful.

That said, I glanced at their primary patent, and it sure seems like an obvious invention to me to flip between sending messages either via your app or via SMS, depending on what capabilities the recipient has.

Are you aware of a single time Apple has sued someone for violating a patent on something they had not implemented?

Sure. Just last year, Apple sued Samsung over a patent claim that Apple did not use themselves.

It became news because Apple's lawyers complained about Samsung's lawyers mentioning this fact to the jury.

Apple never patented pinch to zoom.

I know. Tell it to that person who claimed they did or at least claimed they invented it.

I don't think they should be invalidated, but if you want to assert rights for the patent then you should be doing something with it. Patents were designed to allow people expending resources on research to have a protected period to reap the profits of that research. Are there any non-practicing entities doing that?

As I said, I think that licensing DOES count as practicing a patent. Especially if the patent holding company is made up of the inventors, as in this case.

Unlike, for instance, large companies (such as Apple, MS, Samsung, Google) patenting everything they can think of, even if they have no plans to ever use it.

But then, I have to remember that a primary official purpose of a patent is to prevent others from using the same invention unless the inventor is willing to license it. Another primary purpose is so that the invention becomes known, for others to springboard from, and so that in time, it becomes available to everyone. The trouble is, the current two decades period of exclusivity is probably too long for today's world, at least in the world of software.
 
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If you have to state that your company is not a patent troll, then that most definitely indicates that you are one.
 
His name is Wilfred Carbuncle.
[doublepost=1462915202][/doublepost]

Apple was probably working on these well before 2006.
And yet didn't patent it at this point. Actual implementations of what they asked to patent already existed, and thus make their patents invalid.
 
Apple was probably working on these well before 2006.

Sure, as were a lot of people. Heck, there were touch friendly and even multi-touch devices for sale long before Apple engineers supposedly got interested in them around 2002 or so.

Multi-touch itself... along with pinch and other finger-friendly gestures... has been around since the early 1980s, back when Apple and other consumer companies were still learning to play with mice and maybe a PDA stylus.

multitouch_history.png


Personally, I think that being finger friendly was the important thing about the iPhone. Others had tried it commercially, of course, but didn't have the necessary publicity and marketing clout.

For example, one of the first finger friendly easy-to-use tablet designs was the 2000 Norwegian Freepad.



Like the iPad sold a decade later, its UI was created specifically to be touch friendly, and its core apps designed so that they would be "so easy to use, that your grandmother can use it" , as the Freepad's creators put it.

Its specs read just like an iPad would've back then... including having a dedicated app store.

The Freepad was even used in one of the first large scale USA textbook-on-tablet school tests back in 2003. (USAToday - 5.15.2003)

It just came out too soon, before widespread broadband and cheaper parts were available. It was before the market was ripe. Plus it didn't come from a well known company. It's another example of how commercial success often depends more on timing and marketing, than on the concept itself.
 
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So what? If company shouldn't be able to sue in such a scenario, then what is the value of the first company that wants to be acquired? ... This here is not a troll: it's not going for low-dollar cost-of-litigation damages, it has the resources to go all the way, and it's targeting a very large and very sophisticated defendant.

Perhaps troll isn't quite the right word, but this is a classic submarine patent lawsuit and the intention bears no resemblance to legitimate work. So the company that invented the technology and filed the patent didn't think they could sue for damages? Or they didn't notice that there was an iPhone before this year? And the value is 1.5% of sales?

This lawsuit has less to do with technology and innovation than it does with lawyer glut and perverse economic incentives.
 
Please see a specialist for your condition.

Not my condition... Apple's condition. Cook is screwing things up. I thought Jobs knew what he was doing when he chose this fool to be in charge. I thought Apple was in good hands, but it looks like they really did need Steve after all.
 
No physical product to protect, then you're a patent troll. Simple as that.
You don't seem to understand what a patent is.
It's more than just a physical product.
Things like production methods for making IC chips for example. They show HOW to make something.
There is no physical product when patenting production methods. The implementation can be licensed out to other entities to build the actual product using the patented methods.
Just like there is no physical product when patenting VoIP tech. It's software method that gets implemented in hardware.
Hardware that in most cases someone else already produced.
 
You don't seem to understand what a patent is.
It's more than just a physical product.
Things like production methods for making IC chips for example. They show HOW to make something.
There is no physical product when patenting production methods. The implementation can be licensed out to other entities to build the actual product using the patented methods.
Just like there is no physical product when patenting VoIP tech. It's software method that gets implemented in hardware.
Hardware that in most cases someone else already produced.

Until they are making an actual product with the patent, it's just a concept. You shouldn't get paid for concepts.
 
Facetime+iMessage is the one and only reason why we own 8 Apple devices in our household, and still counting...
 
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