It's still enough to wipe out the profits from the first 20 million Apple TV sales.![]()
Of course it will take 20 years to move that many apple tvs
It's still enough to wipe out the profits from the first 20 million Apple TV sales.![]()
No, software patents are fine. It's vague patents or ones that patent a concept instead of an implementation that should be destroyed. We need a judge that understands the issues and will take a stand and set some precedent for throwing out patents that are too vague or don't describe the exact process by which something is done (which allows someone else to do the same thing in a different way without getting sued).
The problem is the vague aspect of these patents. A patent has to be specific to what it does and how it does it. As they stand in the USA it seems that you can patent an idea with no way or clue of how to implement it.
This software patent stuff must stop. Software patents should not be allowed.
The problem is not a judge that doesn't understand the issues. The problem is a judge in Texas who exactly understands his issue, and whose publicly stated goal is to make his court the number one court for all patent cases - by making it as easy as possible for plaintiffs to succeed, and as hard as possible for defendants, and by giving the biggest possible amounts of damages to plaintiffs. It's all good for his business.
No... your assertion that "they must know what's going on around them" without any backing is incredibly misinformed. Nobody holds a monthly presentation describing all the latest tech patents granted that month by the USPTO.
If you bothered to read the part of my original post that you did not quote then you would know why. I work in this area, specifically dealing with the handling of patents for a major international company. I know what I am talking about when I say that the odds of them knowing they were infringing when they implemented Spotlight, Time Machine or Cover Flow are incredibly slim.
In all likelihood they were first made aware of infringement when the patent holder asked them to license it. They probably felt the amount he was asking was too steep and figured they stood a better chance in court. Based on the ruling, they likely bet wrong.
I would hope that Apple and other high-tech companies should start lobbying for patent reform. Patent trolling needs to be stopped. That is all this is and it's ridiculous for everyone.
I would think such simple things such as, you must be the actual patent owner to sue would be a good start. Stops patent trolls from buying up lame patents. Second, it should be something that has been applied to, or is going to be applied to some commercial use or licensing of the patent IP should be openly offered. Lastly, there should be a limit on the time a company has to file a claim... waiting for years to go by so that products mature and run the tab up is silly.
He is a smart slighly off center professor at Yale. He wrote a book among other things said that the OS of today all sucked. That they only mimic the real world with files and folders. That things on a computer aren't real and we should take advantage of that fact.
My jaw dropped when Apple unveiled Time Machine. It was EXACTLY the concept that he was pitching for 15 years. He had some programming skills but they were too dated and too limited for him to pull this off by himself.
[...]
Can you give a reason for this line of thinking? Why should software be any different than music, movies, ect... ?
I still think the best solution for this issue is to take 4 steps:
1. Require that the jury for every patent trial consist of only experts in the field. The costs of this can be born by both partiesOf course, patent troll lawyers would hate this, but frankly who cares?
Music, movies and art are not patented, they are copyrighted. Some people believe software should be copyrighted (allowing people to capitalize on their intellectual property) but be ineligible for patenting.
Music, movies, and art can be patented. The creative works embodying the music, movies, and art, cannot. Just as a machine executing source code to do something can be patented, but the source code cannot.
For instance, one could patent a method for creating pleasing sounds by using musical instruments (ignoring issues of obviousness and prior art - my point is that 35 USC 101 allows such patent subject matter).
Music, movies and art are not patented, they are copyrighted. Some people believe software should be copyrighted (allowing people to capitalize on their intellectual property) but be ineligible for patenting.
35 USC 101 allows such subject matter, such as a method for playing music, to be patented if and only if the method steps are implemented by a machine or are sufficiently transformed to a different state or thing. The music itself has no tangible structure -- it is the creative work and as such, is an abstract idea and cannot by itself be patented, even if it were sufficiently transformed.
Simply because the method to produce the music using an instrument is patented, does not imply that the music itself is patented, in the same way that patenting a method of producing a machine including the step of spraying the machine with red paint does not provide patent protection on red paint.
Music, like literature, works of art, etc, are copyrightable and not patentable.
That's my point (though you applied the wrong 35 USC 101 test that has been rejected by the supreme court - machine or transformation is no longer the law). Software cannot be patented, but doing the thing the software does can be. Music cannot be patented, but the act of playing the music can be. Software is thus already treated the same as other creative works,
To my knowledge, the supreme court upheld the machine-or-transformation test in the recent Bilski decision as a predictor for eligibility under 101, but they stated that it shouldn't be the sole determinator for eligibilty. So I ought to retract my "if and only if" statement as not being totally accurate.
Your point was that music can be patented -- my point is that it cannot be patented because it is an abstract idea.
Since it's not the sole determiner, it's no longer the test - that was the import of the supreme court Bilski ruling. There is no more bright line test. But whatever.
And that was not my point. My point was, and is, that software is treated the same as music and art. Abstract compositions are not patentable (but are copyrightable if they are fixed in a medium), but the act of performing is patentable (e.g. the mechanisms or actions taken to make the music are patentable, as are the mechanisms or actions taken to execute the software).
When people say "software shouldn't be patentable" what they really mean is that "things that can (perhaps only practically) be done in software should not be patentable." And justifying that position by comparison to art and music is wrong, since such a position would actually treat software far differently than art and music are currently treated.
I disagree. Simply because M-T is no longer the sole test does not mean it is no longer a test or no longer the test in the vast majority of scenarios. The guidelines issued by the PTO to its employees, which are publicly available online, indicate that the M-T test is still a strong predictor for patent eligibility under 101 and should be applied. In exceptional scenarios, other tests may be applied as well. Supreme court made it pretty clear in majority decision that the M-T test should not by any means be thrown out. If anything, that is the import of the ruling.
Your exact words were "Music can be patented." I'm just trying to clear it up for whomever cares to follow our conversation that music by itself can definitely NOT be patented and as an abstract idea is strictly ineligible for patentability. Whether music, art and software should be considered intellectual equivalents, I think there are good points on both sides .
The PTO guidelines have not been updated, as far as I know, so reliance on them would be improper. And you have the import wrong - before the supreme court ruling, machine or transformation was the ONLY test. Now that is not the case, and we are, essentially, left with no test that guarantees that particular subject matter conforms with (or fails to conform with) 35 USC 101. Meeting machine or transformation, in fact, no longer guarantees patentability, and failing machine or transformation no longer guarantees lack of patentability.
The PTO guidelines have not been updated, as far as I know, so reliance on them would be improper. And you have the import wrong - before the supreme court ruling, machine or transformation was the ONLY test. Now that is not the case, and we are, essentially, left with no test that guarantees that particular subject matter conforms with (or fails to conform with) 35 USC 101. Meeting machine or transformation, in fact, no longer guarantees patentability, and failing machine or transformation no longer guarantees lack of patentability.
http://ipwatchdog.com/2010/06/28/uspto-memo-to-examiners/id=11439/
I guess we are going to disagree on the meat of the ruling...
From my perspective, the import of the ruling is basically "business as usual."
I guess my main point should have been that I find it hard to believe that I myself knew about Gerlenter's work and that the engineers at Apple didn't. If you had read my comment above my reply to you, you might have understood my disbelief.
Looks like Steve Balmer is in agreement.
![]()
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/05/microsoft-chief-executive-patent
So, you are saying that we should go against the constitution of the united sates that protects people who invent things, such as software and not allow them to protect it by having a patent for a limited time?