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Business as usual for Apple. They make a calculated decision on whether developing the technology, licensing the technology, or simply violating an existing patent is the cheapest path, then they attempt to crush the patent holder with endless appeals and legal fees.
 
1) $634m isn't even pocket change to Apple. They already spent 1/3rd that fighting this lawsuit most likely.
2) Pft, like the 12 would be worth a price hike, assuming it's another phoned in "update" like the 9, 10 and 11 before it.
Not defending this decision, because Masimo is a patent troll, but I'm not going to feel bad for Apple in the slightest considering how poorly they've treated the AW for years, and the despicable way they've Sherlocked features left and right from other companies in the past rather than do the honorable thing and just pay a licensing fee. It's a company, not a religion, and they're gonna win some and lose some.
$634m + 211 =$845m

combine with avg cost to build Apple Watch goes up by $10 which, assuming 30% margins off of watch. assume ASP $350, that's $105 profit.

assume 30 million watches sold per year (Apple Watch on a decline)

to keep Apple's 30% margin, each Apple Watch would need to increase by $35 for the next 2 years to payback patent fee, lawyers, and the ongoing patent license at $10 per unit and to account minimal price elasticity (even you think the watch isn't worth the price increase)
 
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Probably pocket change for Apple, but doesn't look good from a PR perspective. Hopefully it's either appealed or settled out of court somehow.
 
I’ve never gotten a clear answer - did Masimo refuse to offer Apple a license, or did Apple refuse to pay for a license?

Either way, I’m really frustrated with this. Oximeters are important to asthmatics like me. Both companies have plenty of money. Just figure something out.
 
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I forget where I read this but the patent in question lapses in 2028 or something? At this point Apple seems to be willing to wait it out while drowning Masimo in legal fees.

Is it true that most of Apple’s competitors simply bit the bullet and licensed Masimo’s tech?
Masimo's patent related to the Apple Watch is set to expire in August 2028. At this point Miasimo is just a patent troll milking every dollar they can while the getting is good… 😉
 
I was working in Development for a company in the 1980s that used pulses of infrared light to measure the relative proportions of certain chemicals in a material. Aren't the Masimo patents all about doing the same thing with a wearable device and minimising extraneous signals? The patent system has a very low bar.
 
$634m + 211 =$845m

combine with avg cost to build Apple Watch goes up by $10 which, assuming 30% margins off of watch. assume ASP $350, that's $105 profit.

assume 30 million watches sold per year (Apple Watch on a decline)

to keep Apple's 30% margin, each Apple Watch would need to increase by $35 for the next 2 years to payback patent fee, lawyers, and the ongoing patent license at $10 per unit and to account minimal price elasticity (even you think the watch isn't worth the price increase)
For a feature isn’t used by most people.
 
and Apple failing with their argument "this is a watch, not a patient monitor. Thus we can use what's described in the patents".

Your characterization of the damage-limitation argument as Apple's primary defense is misleading.

Apple DOES NOT argue that they are allowed to use Masimo's patent because they are a consumer device. What you said above is patently (pun intended) false.

Apple claims to not be a patient monitor only as a contingent defense should their primary defense be rejected. This is done to limit the scope of damages. It is essentially the same thing as if you are being sued for battery, you might simultaneously claim "I did not commit battery" and "Even if I did, you cannot claim bruising your arm requires you to buy a new car". The secondary defense against the expansiveness of damage claims cannot be construed as an admission of infringement.

Apple's primary defense argument is that they do not infringe the patent; they do monitoring in a different way. They use a different LED topology, different wavelengths of light, different rejection strategies for ambient light, different optical isolation mechanics, different tissue modeling, different algorithms, proprietary DSP pipelines, as well as other substantial differences. Their tech is different architecturally, optically, electronically, and algorithmically.

Unfortunately for Apple, the patent courts are not about truth. They are simply about settling disputes. Apple's defense gets evaluated by people who have little to no technical qualifications to make such decisions. Neither the judges in the ITC case, nor citizen juries are technically competent. They get swayed by narrative, obfuscation, rhetoric, emotion, credibility heuristics, and cognitive biases–the same way as people do on this forum.
 
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They should have just done that from the start, but I'm sure someone thought that would make a bad precedent or something.

I don't think Apple really wants to be a medical device company. The cost and hassle of getting medical equipment through regulatory approval would require Apple to significantly reorganize its engineering, quality-assurance, documentation, and compliance practices (or run parallel organization, which would be cost inefficient and cause internal friction). It would also complicate and confuse their brand identity. Though it might be funny to see an ad for the Apple watch that includes 20-seconds of pharmaceutical-company-level disclaimers at the end.
 
It would have been a lot cheaper for Apple - and therefore consumers - had they just paid for the licensing fee, like everyone else.
$634m + 211 =$845m

combine with avg cost to build Apple Watch goes up by $10 which, assuming 30% margins off of watch. assume ASP $350, that's $105 profit.

assume 30 million watches sold per year (Apple Watch on a decline)

to keep Apple's 30% margin, each Apple Watch would need to increase by $35 for the next 2 years to payback patent fee, lawyers, and the ongoing patent license at $10 per unit and to account minimal price elasticity (even you think the watch isn't worth the price increase)
I think I read that they wanted $100/watch as a licensing fee.
 
What's with people taking Apple's side as if Masimo is a patent troll (definition: a patent holding company that doesn't make anything)

1. Apple's technology does not infringe based on architecture, optics, electronics, and algorithm.
2. Masimo had no competing product and no intention to compete with Apple until several years after Apple included oximetry into the Apple Watch Series 6. Masimo was found guilty of violating Apple Watch patents. To me, this shows bad faith on Masimo's part.
3. Masimo may have tech and be a solid actor in the medical space, but in their prosecution of this patent against Apple, they are acting like a patent troll.
 
Masimo's patent related to the Apple Watch is set to expire in August 2028. At this point Miasimo is just a patent troll milking every dollar they can while the getting is good… 😉

That's not what a patent troll is.

and because it expires in five years they're supposed to just let anyone use the technology they developed and patented? That doesn't make sense.

I'm sure apple would react the same way in kind :rolleyes:
 
Masimo's patent related to the Apple Watch is set to expire in August 2028. At this point Miasimo is just a patent troll milking every dollar they can while the getting is good… 😉

If you build a device, you're not a patent troll.

patent troll (n) - a company that obtains the rights to one or more patents in order to profit by means of licensing or litigation, rather than by producing its own goods or services.

Our hospital is chock full of Miasimo SpO2 sensors, and have been as long as I've been there (6 years), and the previous hospital I worked at used them as well, which pushes that back over a decade. They designed the devices, they patented the devices, and have been building and selling them for a long time.

Just pay the bill Apple, and move on. It's less 10% of the payola you get from Google for doing jack-****.
 
Indeed. While I have heard unsubstantiated claims Massimo wanted over $100 per watch, claims based on FRAND patents say this would have been closer to $10-20 per watch.

Evidently this judgement works out to just under $15 per infringing watch.
Well, if that is true, then weren't Massimo asking for 5 to 10 times FRAND norms and this judgement just gets Apple the normal FRAND pricing they should have wanted/expected?
 
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