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Wow... the Italians are dicks and know nothing about the law.

There are NO required WARRANTIES in Europe.
What IS required is a two year defects liability. But what does that mean?

For normal consumers this means:
In the first 90 days after purchasing a computer you will get a replacement for ANY defect, as it is assumed that whatever you bought was defective WHEN you bought it. In this case APPLE would have to prove otherwise (i.e. you dropped the Book on the floor etc....)

AFTER these 90 days, YOU have to prove that the defect was already present THE MOMENT you BOUGHT the device. For this you need an expert to certify this, which of course is really never possible.
'Hey... my display doesn't work... and um... it never really did!' <-- yeah SURE.
The only thing to get thru with it (except for very rare singular instances) is if a defect reaches class-action status. Which would sort of prove that the defect was already present when bought.

What does THAT then mean?
The European law to REQUIRE a 2 year defects liability is (at least in the electronics sector) 99.999999% worthless.

So really... what is the deal here ?!
This law will differ per country. European legislation often only forces there to be some sort of law with certain minimum standards. And there are also a lot of different laws. One may be warranty, but other may govern consumer protection.

In The Netherlands there is consumer protection. You are protected during a normal lifetime for a certain product. I.e. if you buy a Plasma TV and it gives out after 3 years while a realistic lifetime expectancy might be 10 years you are still under a type of legal protection and you are entitled to get an (almost) free repair.

This protection governs the deal between the one that sold you the equipment and you. The manufacturer has nothing to do with it. This, by the way, is why stores often try to sell you 'extended warranty', something you legally do not need. And when you approach them with a defect after the manufacturer warranty has run out they often try to pass you on to the manufacturer who has expensive procedures in place.

As a consumer you have also obligations under the consumer protection. For one, you need to tell the seller within two months of the appearance of a defect. They are obliged to offer you a repair. If this repair extends the lifetime of the product beyond the original lifetime they might charge you for that lifetime extension. E.g. if a repair on your plasma TV after 5 years extends the lifetime from the original 10 to 12, they may charge you 20% of the repair cost. Also if they can prove (they have to prove this, not you) you have not properly operated the equipment and that has led to the damage, they are not obliged to offer free repairs.

If they cannot repair the equipment, they might offer you an alternative but you are not obliged to take this. You are then free to end the purchase agreement and get a partial refund. This refund is calculated on the basis of how much a comparable product costs today and then the time is taken how log you have been using it. So, if a Plasma TV breaks after 5 years and the legal lifetime is 10 and is cost originally $1200 and costs $500 now, you will get a refund of 50% of $500 if you return the TV. This must be paid in real money (not vouchers, etc.) as you are ending the original agreement where equipment changed hands in return for money.

Normal wear is excluded from this. Often situations get complex (e.g. with laundry washing machines). Miele for instance charges you for repairs for its machines but it limits the charge you have to pay during the entire lifetime of a washing machine. This also circumvents the seller's obligations.

Having said this: buying AppleCare for a desktop is probably senseless in The Netherlands as you are protected by consumer protection. It will however be a difficult fight to get your right as stores (including, I expect, the online Apple Store) never cooperate.

For a laptop, it depends on your use. If you are very careful and you know you have a legal fight on your hand to get your right if something goes wrong, you could forego AppleCare.
 
Do you actually realise that a $2700 iMac for which there is no cheaper alternative is entirely made in China?

I cannot buy a more expensive one made in the US either, because there isn't any.

The Mac Pros are (usually) made in the US, I think it's because they tend to be ordered CTO and in such small quantities the Chinese/Taiwanese parts are kept at Elk Grove or something and assembled there.

Still, if that's what you want, you can buy one :) Come to think of it every Mac tower I've owned has an "assembled in USA" tag on it :)

Why not everyone get a job at Walmart or McDonalds? Why not get rid of minimum wage? Why not get rid of Medicare? Why not get rid of social security? Why not get rid of worthless poor people that can't work 16 hours a day for pennies? Why not get rid of child labor laws and Osha? Why not get rid of all undesirables in general? :rolleyes:

I see lots of people screaming in the politics board here these things everyday lol. Generally poor->barely middle class people. They just feel superior because they have a few shinier things than the average person does, but make no mistake they're still poor/middle class.

When you're rolling in hundreds of millions a year and consider other peoples' livelihoods expendable, you might be a millionaire - and I doubt anyone like that participates in this forum.
 
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I see lots of people screaming in the politics board here these things everyday lol. Generally poor->barely middle class people. They just feel superior because they have a few shinier things than the average person does, but make no mistake they're still poor/middle class.

WTF does that go to do with anything? You think if you're a millionaire you're superior to everyone else? That is beyond arrogant. I can't say what that is because I'd get myself banned. A human's life should not be valued on the amount of cash in their pocket or bank account. In the end, those are just numbers and paper. You can't take it with you and at least some of us believe you will be held accountable for your actions in this world and I wouldn't want to be a greedy SOB that never cared for anything but getting his own.

When you're rolling in hundreds of millions a year and consider other peoples' livelihoods expendable, you might be a millionaire - and I doubt anyone like that participates in this forum.

It's the fact these people don't care about the lives of other people that make them such disgusting samples of the human genome. They're not really human because being human means having a soul and those people clearly don't have one or they wouldn't look at anyone or their livelihood as expendable. And a few people in my family are (or were) millionaires and that certainly is NOT their attitude towards life.
 
the Italians are dicks and know nothing about the law.

Having been to Italy many a time I can vouch that the above is indeed correct.;)

Hey Henry, do you have some problem with Italians?
Perhaps we don't know much about law, but sure French seem to know much less...

However back on topic what boozezela says below is indeed correct:

In Italy when the good fails during the 1st year you can either contact the seller or the manufacturer.

Depending on the policies in place, the seller could just give you a new item, or simply contact the manufacturer on your behalf.

In the second scenario it would be advisable to contact the manufacturer yourself to save some time.

During the second year, for manufacturing defects (like a chip that is known to fail after 13 months for instance) the seller is responsible. If the manufacturer does not acknowledge the defect, the loss will be on the seller.

In this specific case, where Apple is the manufacturer and the seller, when the product develops a problem during the second year, Apple will simply quote you for a repair and, if the defect is severe and later gets recognised as manufacturing defect, will refund you.
 
I have a old MBP that had 6 days left on the 2 year european warranty, logic board, DVD, and keyboard all failed at the same time and Apple repaired all free of charge, they even gave me a 90 day extension guarantee. so your 99.999999% worthless statement has no logic or truth.

Nope. I am still 100% correct. You may read up on laws or even go STUDY law, THEN we may talk.

What Apple DOES and what Apple is FORCED TO DO by law are two separate things that stand in no relation. Was it nice what Apple did for you? Definitely. Did they HAVE to do it? By no means.

As an aside. On ALL repairs Apple does there is a 90days warranty. Be it free or paid repairs.

Whether there MAY be additional laws that apply only to Spain, I do not know, however. But what I said earlier is still 100% true.
 
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