Apple Hit With Unfair Labor Practice Charge for Refusing to Transfer Unionized Towson Workers

[Black Belt]

You don't see why people who can be replaced so easily need a union to protect their livelihood?

It shouldn’t be a “livelihood” in the first place. Minimum wage jobs are for teenagers, not grown ass adults.

 

[BaldiMac]

It’s funny how people in this thread have just assumed the terms of the contract based on whether or not they like unions.

The legal question that’s relevant to this case is simply whether or not the contract prohibits Apple from transferring union employees to other stores. Apple says yes. The union says no. The court will decide.

If the answer is “no” than it’s a pretty clear case of retaliation. If the answer is “yes” then the union made a bad decision.

 

[ThomasJL]

[sarcasm]
Hi everyone, I’m a Tim Cook supporter. Unions are bad. Corporations are good. People who support unions need to know that unions shouldn’t exist because working class people are less human than billionaire CEOs like Tim Cook, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Alex Karp, Bill Gates, Sundar Pichai, and Peter Thiel. Those wonderful men are all self-made, and working class people who want unions are losers who are too lazy to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. America is the land of the free and anyone can become wealthy here if they work hard enough, so if they are poor, they have no one to blame but themselves.

Unions are socialism, and socialism is bad. Taxes should not be funding services that help working class people. Taxes should be donated to corporations and billionaires because they are superior to working class people.
[/sarcasm]

 

[Abazigal]

Apple is a trillion dollar company. They can easily afford to pay their employees a living wage. This isn't about a false belief that Apple has unlimited resources. It's about the realistic understanding that people deserve to be paid fairly.

Just this year, Apple paid $2 Billion for an AI company. If they have $2 billion for corporate acquisitions, they have plenty of money to pay their employees fairly

I think it's sad we live in a society where people are more concerned about corporate welfare for trillion dollar companies than the people working next to us. People matter. Corporations come second

So what’s a fair monthly salary for an Apple retail employee in your opinion? It can’t just be a “Apple can afford to pay everyone $20k a month, regardless of the scope of their job, therefore they should” type of reasoning.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

People always make that excuse and it's nonsense. Apple has the freedom to pay their employees whatever they want to. Think about it: if your statement were true, corporations would also have to worry about paying their CEOs. But they don't. They can pay them whatever they want

While some would like to think different, the skills of one effective CEO are actually worth more than the skills of one effective Retail Employee. If a company is trending towards bringing a 4 trillion dollar valuation, paying $3 million for the person that’s a pretty significant part of making it happen is not something many shareholders will balk at. If it was proposed that he get paid 14 billion dollars a year, the shareholders would have just as much to say about that as if Apple were to decide to pay all retail employees $450,000 a year. OR purchase aluminum several multiples over market rate.

 

[maxoakland]

While some would like to think different, the skills of one effective CEO are actually worth more than the skills of one effective Retail Employee. If a company is trending towards bringing a 4 trillion dollar valuation, paying $3 million for the person that’s a pretty significant part of making it happen is not something many shareholders will balk at. If it was proposed that he get paid 14 billion dollars a year, the shareholders would have just as much to say about that as if Apple were to decide to pay all retail employees $450,000 a year. OR purchase aluminum several multiples over market rate.

Studies show AI actually outperforms CEOs, not that anyone was arguing that a retail employee should be paid as much as a ceo. So I’m not sure why you even brought that up

 

[maxoakland]

So what’s a fair monthly salary for an Apple retail employee in your opinion? It can’t just be a “Apple can afford to pay everyone $20k a month, regardless of the scope of their job, therefore they should” type of reasoning.

Whatever’s a good living wage in their area, plus some for savings

 

[Abazigal]

Whatever’s a good living wage in their area, plus some for savings

There’s this annoying trend I find of Macrumours members making motherhood statements that don’t really answer anything.

People keep arguing that Apple retail staff ought to be paid more. And so I am asking them - what exactly is it about their current salary that’s unfair? How does it stack up for their respective areas, and what then ought to be considered “fair renumeration” for someone who works and lives in that area?

Otherwise, it’s just a case of shifting goalposts where Apple is constantly accused of not paying their employees enough, but nobody can exactly quantify just what “being paid enough” entails, or what a fair salary ought to be (in terms of dollars and cents).

It’s just never enough, because it suits their MO to accuse Apple of being a penny-pinching miser.

Another is the whole “competition is good for everybody” diatribe, but that’s another debate for another day.

 

[ThomasJL]

I think it's sad we live in a society where people are more concerned about corporate welfare for trillion dollar companies than the people working next to us.

That is a perfect description of Tim Cook supporters.

 

[Abazigal]

Apple is a trillion dollar company. They can easily afford to pay their employees a living wage. This isn't about a false belief that Apple has unlimited resources. It's about the realistic understanding that people deserve to be paid fairly.

Just this year, Apple paid $2 Billion for an AI company. If they have $2 billion for corporate acquisitions, they have plenty of money to pay their employees fairly

I think it's sad we live in a society where people are more concerned about corporate welfare for trillion dollar companies than the people working next to us. People matter. Corporations come second

Apparently, asking for some quantifiable numbers so we can actually have a meaningful discussion about whether Apple employees are paid fairly or not is me being more concerned about corporate welfare. 🙃

I don't see them as being mutually exclusive. Apple can be a very successful company financially, they can have the resources to invest billions on new technology, and just because they could technically afford to pay their employees way more doesn't mean that these very workers are currently underpaid by any means.

 

[BaldiMac]

Apparently, asking for some quantifiable numbers so we can actually have a meaningful discussion about whether Apple employees are paid fairly or not is me being more concerned about corporate welfare. 🙃

I don't see them as being mutually exclusive. Apple can be a very successful company financially, they can have the resources to invest billions on new technology, and just because they could technically afford to pay their employees way more doesn't mean that these very workers are currently underpaid by any means.

The problem is that you're asking a question with a nuanced answer that isn't as simple as a number. Ideally, supply and demand would sort things out with multiple employers competing for workers and then negotiating a salary. But that's obviously failed in a world where mergers and megacorps dominate markets reducing competition for jobs. Employers merge and it's called efficiently. Employees work together through unions and it's demonized.

Growth in worker productivity has far outpaced wage growth since the 70s with the difference being pocketed by the rich. The weather gap is continuing to grow at an unsustainable rate. At some point (some would argue already), we've lost our republic because we can't say no to a ruling class that controls all the resources.

What's an employee worth? It depends. But Apple Store workers are certainly a whole lot more productive than a McDonald's worker from the last time the minimum wage was increased. Why are they paid a similar amount?

 

[I7guy]

The problem is that you're asking a question with a nuanced answer that isn't as simple as a number. Ideally, supply and demand would sort things out with multiple employers competing for workers and then negotiating a salary. But that's obviously failed in a world where mergers and megacorps dominate markets reducing competition for jobs. Employers merge and it's called efficiently. Employees work together through unions and it's demonized.

Growth in worker productivity has far outpaced wage growth since the 70s with the difference being pocketed by the rich. The weather gap is continuing to grow at an unsustainable rate. At some point (some would argue already), we've lost our republic because we can't say no to a ruling class that controls all the resources.

What's an employee worth? It depends. But Apple Store workers are certainly a whole lot more productive than a McDonald's worker from the last time the minimum wage was increased. Why are they paid a similar amount?

How much is an Apple Store worker worth?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

There’s this annoying trend I find of Macrumours members making motherhood statements that don’t really answer anything.

People keep arguing that Apple retail staff ought to be paid more. And so I am asking them - what exactly is it about their current salary that’s unfair? How does it stack up for their respective areas, and what then ought to be considered “fair renumeration” for someone who works and lives in that area?

Otherwise, it’s just a case of shifting goalposts where Apple is constantly accused of not paying their employees enough, but nobody can exactly quantify just what “being paid enough” entails, or what a fair salary ought to be (in terms of dollars and cents).

It’s just never enough, because it suits their MO to accuse Apple of being a penny-pinching miser.

Another is the whole “competition is good for everybody” diatribe, but that’s another debate for another day.

“Whatever’s good plus some”. What they currently have is good, and in all malls with an Apple Store, the best. Plus some. So, we’re already there. 🙂

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Studies show AI actually outperforms CEOs, not that anyone was arguing that a retail employee should be paid as much as a ceo. So I’m not sure why you even brought that up

Studies show automation (not even AI) outperforms retail employees. And, while no company is replacing their CEO with AI, many are replacing their retail employees with automation.

So, are you saying that retail employees categorically should NOT make $450,000 a year? What if that’s considered a good living wage in their area (when you consider also having more for savings)? Who are YOU to put a cap on how much they’re worth?!?!

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Apparently, asking for some quantifiable numbers so we can actually have a meaningful discussion about whether Apple employees are paid fairly or not is me being more concerned about corporate welfare. 🙃

I don't see them as being mutually exclusive. Apple can be a very successful company financially, they can have the resources to invest billions on new technology, and just because they could technically afford to pay their employees way more doesn't mean that these very workers are currently underpaid by any means.

There are folks that are working jobs now and they don’t think they should have to because “my parents have enough money to just give to me, why don’t they?” Their parents understand “investment”. Hopefully they do at some point.

 

[Abazigal]

So, are you saying that retail employees categorically should NOT make $450,000 a year? What if that’s considered a good living wage in their area (when you consider also having more for savings)? Who are YOU to put a cap on how much they’re worth?!?!

I am genuinely curious to know if that is indeed the case - that there are indeed places in the US where an employee needs to be paid $35,000 a month in order to "live comfortably".

Look, we can argue till the cows come home. Maybe it's time to start looking at numbers quantitatively. I don't live in the US, but I am sure that plenty of you here do. What's the median income in your respective areas? What's the cost of living like right now? How much does someone need to earn in order to live comfortably, while still having some money left over for savings at the end of the month? And does the monthly wage of an Apple retail employee square up against that?

I suspect when all this is said and done, while an argument can be made that Apple retail ought to be paid more, that increment is like more in the range of 10-20% higher, and not 2-3 times.

 

[AriaAmaris]

Blame that on the greedy corporation, not the people trying to make a living in a world where costs are always rising

Doesn’t matter, this is what happens when stores unionize. You end up with a skeleton crew every time.

 

[Black Belt]

Whatever’s a good living wage in their area, plus some for savings

How about some personal responsibility to make themselves worth a higher salary. It’s not a corporation’s job to cover for a grown ass adult ****ing up their life so much all they are worth is minimum wage, if that.

 

[BaldiMac]

How about some personal responsibility to make themselves worth a higher salary. It’s not a corporation’s job to cover for a grown ass adult ****ing up their life so much all they are worth is minimum wage, if that.

Or maybe fix the system, so that there are more jobs offering wages above poverty level.

 

[I7guy]

Or maybe fix the system, so that there are more jobs offering wages above poverty level.

Or maybe fix it so ones experience is worth more than a minimum wage job.

 

[BaldiMac]

Or maybe fix yourself so you are worth more than a minimum wage job.

Why do you assume I’m working a minimum wage job?

“Personal responsibility” is a game of musical chairs in the current system. It gets one person out of poverty by pushing someone else down. It doesn’t fix anything.

 

[I7guy]

Why do you assume I’m working a minimum wage job?

What makes you assume I am referring to anyone person on this forum. It’s a third party figure of speech not referring to anyone in general - except to the millions who have minimum wage jobs. And I’m not saying it’s easy but it’s possible.

“Personal responsibility” is a game of musical chairs in the current system. It gets one person out of poverty by pushing someone else down. It doesn’t fix anything.

So another person gets pushed down when the government provides subsidies?

 

[BaldiMac]

What makes you assume I am referring to anyone person on this forum. It’s a third party figure of speech not referring to anyone in general - except to the millions who have minimum wage jobs. And I’m not saying it’s easy but it’s possible.

Maybe you should take “personal responsibility” for your own choice of words, instead of blaming someone else taking them at face value. 😛

So another person gets pushed down when the government provides subsidies?

I have no idea what you’re referring to here. I didn’t say anything about subsidies.

 

[I7guy]

Maybe you should take “personal responsibility” for your own choice of words, instead of blaming someone else taking them at face value. 😛

Who was I to know a sentence would be mischaracterized.

I have no idea what you’re referring to here. I didn’t say anything about subsidies.

Well you did. Maybe explain what you meant.

 

[BaldiMac]

Who was I to know a sentence would be mischaracterized.

So no personal responsibility from you.

Well you did.

No, I didn’t say anything about subsidies.