Apple Hits Back at EU Law in Court

[MilaM]

Yes, because doing things like complying with ridiculously expensive, overbearing regulations that gives away IP to competitors costs money, and that gets passed on to customers in those regions.

Apple's prices have been higher in Europe for decades. This has nothing to do with regulation. You could maybe argue, that localization of th software does add some cost.

I think it's just a pure marketing decision. Apple has a much lower market share in most of the EU and I would argue that consumers here perceive it more like a luxury brand. They could lower prices to increase market share. But apparently it's more profitable to stay where they are.

 

[surferfb]

I'm not sure I see how opening up a device to 3rd party app markets or allowing some earbuds to pop up to sync like Airpods invades someones privacy. Compare this to the basic business models of US companies like Google and Meta and its night and day.

There are absolutely legitimate privacy concerns with giving third parties the content of every notification you get. Even if Apple manages to find a way to keep the notification’s content private, even just knowing what types of notifications you get, how often you get them, and from what apps is valuable data companies like Meta will use to sell ads.

How many users do you think understand clicking yes on a “show my notifications on my Meta sunglasses” prompt also might mean “Meta sucks up the content of every notification I get and sells ads against it” or “Meta sees I get regular notifications from a glucose monitoring app" or "Meta sees I am getting a lot of notifications from Redfin" and will use that data to sell me ads.

 

[dumastudetto]

It's important to note: in fighting these unjust and despotic laws, Apple is fighting for each and every one of us.

 

[surferfb]

Apple's prices have been higher in Europe for decades. This has nothing to do with regulation. You could maybe argue, that localization does add some cost.

I think it's just a pure marketing decision. Apple has a much lower market share in most of the EU and I would argue that consumers here perceive it more like a luxury brand. They could lower prices to increase market share. But apparently it's more profitable to stay where they are.

And the EU has had much higher regulatory burden than the US for decades. There's also localization costs, as you point out, as well as currency/exchange rate risks, longer warranties, etc. You're right that it's not just the DMA, but higher regulation ABSOLUTELY is a part of it.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

The messed up part is that the EU-mandated changes would make iOS a much more compelling platform. If iPhones worked well with a user's existing accessories they would be more inclined to make the switch since they don't need to buy a new watch + buds + whatever else.

Same for making iMessage interoperable. If users could use Messages to send texts to people using WhatsApp, a lot of users would just use Messages instead of downloading an app. That puts iMessage in a stronger position, not a weaker one.

 

[MilaM]

How many users do you think understand clicking yes on a “show my notifications on my Meta sunglasses” prompt also might mean “Meta sucks up the content of every notification I get and sells ads against it” or “Meta sees I get regular notifications from a glucose monitoring app" or "Meta sees I am getting a lot of notifications from Redfin" and will use that data to sell me ads.

You already have the opportunity to give Meta plenty of access like location, address books, calendars, photos. I don't see how another toggle will overwhelm users.

 

[ChrisMac47]

It's not just the EU that are trying to force Apple to enable interoperability of their products ... China, Australia and even the US Govt want to open up the prison that is the Apple ecosystem. It's absurd that a mundane everyday product like an iPhone can ONLY interact with the Apple Watch, for example, and not with other smartwatches.

This is another stalling tactic by Apple. Remember the fuss about the USB-C / Lightning connector ... it would have dire consequences for all iPhone users? And the farce surrounding iMessage incompatibility? Apple's gut reaction is always the same ... oppose change. This is a standard tactic for monopolies or near monopolies ... they always want the status quo, and are the LAST to want innovation.

 

[dumastudetto]

Apple's prices have been higher in Europe for decades. This has nothing to do with regulation. You could maybe argue, that localization of th software does add some cost.

I think it's just a pure marketing decision. Apple has a much lower market share in most of the EU and I would argue that consumers here perceive it more like a luxury brand. They could lower prices to increase market share. But apparently it's more profitable to stay where they are.

Costs have always been higher in Europe due to consumer laws and employment red tape. You also have excess import duties, including subsidies for big entertainment groups who argued Apple devices were facilitating harmful copyright infringement. Quite frankly, it's incredible Apple doesn't charge even more of a markup in Europe.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It's absurd that a mundane everyday product like an iPhone can ONLY interact with the Apple Watch, for example, and not with other smartwatches.

It is definitely one reason I don’t buy Apple watches.

The few times I’ve had them I really couldn’t stand how much they required the iPhone to be in the mix and on latest iOS and so forth.

Just overall, I wish the Apple Watches were much more totally independent products.

 

[MilaM]

And the EU has had much higher regulatory burden than the US for decades. There's also localization costs, as you point out, as well as currency/exchange rate risks, longer warranties, etc. You're right that it's not just the DMA, but higher regulation ABSOLUTELY is a part of it.

I think it's a myth, that EU has much more regulation than the US on the federal level. It actually makes things easier by harmonizing law for all member countries. The regulatory environment might be leaner on the federal level in the US. My impression is, that some powerful states like California, Texas and NY make up for it on the state level. Just look at recent examples like age verification or AI regulation.

 

[ChrisMac47]

It is definitely one reason I don’t buy Apple watches.

The few times I’ve had them I really couldn’t stand how much they required the iPhone to be in the mix and on latest iOS and so forth.

Just overall, I wish the Apple Watches were much more totally independent products.

And there is a solution to this: break up Apple into several new companies! Mac (the best engineers), phones (the dumb ones), wearables (innovators), etc. It happened to Ma Bell (for older readers!) and it will eventually happen to Apple and several other tech companies. They are all too powerful and too arrogant. 40% margins??? Can anyone seriously defend that??? Speak to other businesses supplying essential products (e.g. supermarkets, farmers ...) who get by with tiny margins.

 

[cjsuk]

It's not just the EU that are trying to force Apple to enable interoperability of their products ... China, Australia and even the US Govt want to open up the prison that is the Apple ecosystem. It's absurd that a mundane everyday product like an iPhone can ONLY interact with the Apple Watch, for example, and not with other smartwatches.

This is another stalling tactic by Apple. Remember the fuss about the USB-C / Lightning connector ... it would have dire consequences for all iPhone users? And the farce surrounding iMessage incompatibility? Apple's gut reaction is always the same ... oppose change. This is a standard tactic for monopolies or near monopolies ... they always want the status quo, and are the LAST to want innovation.

Three points here:

1. WhatsApp is literally the messaging monopoly in the EU but I have seen nothing even remotely mentioning that. I barely even use iMessage.

2. Apple were literally on the USB-C design team and had the first USB-C products on the market and still have the only reliable, compliant, full platform support for USB-C. Desktop PCs are still shipping, from EU manufacturers (Fujitsu I'm looking at you) that have a boat load of USB-A ports and if you're really lucky one very limited limping USB-C hole that barely works. And half the laptops on the market have 1/2 ports which are limited, not replaceable or repairable. The cable shipped with the iPhone had USB-C at the other end as well notably for a long time. It's really a grey area picking on Apple on that one.

3. Most of us don't really want scummy third parties tapping APIs everywhere. It's bad enough that some sandboxed apps treat you like a sales target and shovel offers down you all the time until you silence them. Open the APIs? Oh hell no.

As much as I'd love for everything to be shiny happy whoopee doo, the world is a lot more complicated and nuanced and once you've let a cat out of the bag you can't get it back in again. I'd rather that we tread very carefully here from a secure default.

 

[turbineseaplane]

And there is a solution to this: break up Apple into several new companies! Mac (the best engineers), phones (the dumb ones), wearables (innovators), etc. It happened to Ma Bell (for older readers!) and it will eventually happen to Apple and several other tech companies. They are all too powerful and too arrogant. 40% margins??? Can anyone seriously defend that??? Speak to other businesses supplying essential products (e.g. supermarkets, farmers ...) who get by with tiny margins.

Even before any of that, I just think it’s foolish for Apple to still have the product tied so completely to the iPhone.

It’s a huge drawback when cross shopping this type of product.

As somebody who has been abandoned on the iPhone mini front, I’d potentially be a candidate for a cellular Apple Watch, but it needs to be a totally independent product to be considered in that role.

 

[chmania]

in fighting these unjust and despotic laws, Apple is fighting for each and every one of us.

We are not each and every one...

 

[iPadified]

, but higher regulation ABSOLUTELY is a part of it.

Supposition without proof. No, it is standard practice: price is set by willingness to pay, nothing else.

I can guarantee you that alternative to EU would be much worse because then Apple needs to follow the regulation of each member state (27) and these laws and practices are not the same.

 

[iPadified]

Costs have always been higher in Europe due to consumer laws and employment red tape. You also have excess import duties, including subsidies for big entertainment groups who argued Apple devices were facilitating harmful copyright infringement. Quite frankly, it's incredible Apple doesn't charge even more of a markup in Europe.

Are you really thinking this has anything to do with price of a products? Clueless...

 

[dumastudetto]

Are you really thinking this has anything to do with price of a products? Clueless...

I always thought costs played a role in determining the final price. Please further educate me.

 

[chmania]

And the EU has had much "higher regulatory burden" than the US for decades.

The right to live....without the constant worry of getting sick, the ability to send your kids to school and higher education, and finally retiring with dignity...not needing to be confined to an "ecosystem." Hmmm...

 

[turbineseaplane]

The right to live....without the constant worry of getting sick, the ability to send your kids to school and higher education, and finally retiring with dignity...not needing to be confined to an "ecosystem." Hmmm...

You won't get pro "free*" market Americans to ever understand this.

Over here we're conditioned to think our ways are "better" or "best" and the information programming and FUD that's instilled, starting at a young age, particularly in HS/College is still tracking with fully debunked neo-liberal financial narratives that started getting pushed out in the Reagan era.

The last thing the ownership class in the US can ever allow is normal folks to get a grasp of how much they get totally screwed by this hunger games system here in the US.

A wake up call on healthcare is arriving as we speak.


* nothing free about it whatsoever... the terminology just hits at the right vibes

 

[I7guy]

You won't get pro "free" market Americans to ever understand this.

Over here we're conditioned to think our ways are "better" or "best" and the information programming and FUD that's instilled, starting at a young age, particularly in HS/College is still tracking with fully debunked neo-liberal financial narratives that started getting pushed out in the Reagan era.

The last thing the ownership class in the US can ever allow is normal folks to get a grasp of how much they get totally screwed by this hunger games system here in the US.

Please do not speak for me. I think you can only speak for yourself.

 

[satchmo]

If the product is to be sold and used in the EU, the EU is within it's rights to mandate rules to abide.

Just as it's within Apple's right to decide not be play in the EU market.

The parties will need to decide which would be greater impacted by the loss.

 

[Paradoxally]

As they should. Hope Apple wins this, the EU's DMA is absolutely ridiculous. And bring iPhone mirroring to the EU already!

 

[Paradoxally]

You won't get pro "free*" market Americans to ever understand this.

Over here we're conditioned to think our ways are "better" or "best" and the information programming and FUD that's instilled, starting at a young age, particularly in HS/College is still tracking with fully debunked neo-liberal financial narratives that started getting pushed out in the Reagan era.

The last thing the ownership class in the US can ever allow is normal folks to get a grasp of how much they get totally screwed by this hunger games system here in the US.




* nothing free about it whatsoever... the terminology just hits at the right vibes

Right, because the US is the only country that has capitalism. The EU must have communism in all its member states, I guess.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Right, because the US is the only country that has capitalism. The EU must have communism in all its member states, I guess.

Devil is in the details.
Regulation and enforcement (or lack of it) are literally the whole enchilada.

You've very succinctly and quickly highlighted exactly the American narratives I was referencing above.

 

[Paradoxally]

Devil is in the details.
Regulation and enforcement (or lack of it) are literally the whole enchilada.

The EU trades innovation for regulation. The world largely uses US technology manufactured by China.