Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Hits Back at EU Law in Court
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
There is absolutely a way around to agreeing to Google's terms. They're open. If you want to be on Google's STORE then you have to abide by their terms, but OF COURSE YOU DO.
I'd argue there is a way around Apple's terms too, although I will give you it's more complicated than on Android. But if you don't like the terms, you can absolutely have an app on the App Store, and collect revenue outside of said app, and not pay Apple once cent outside of the developer fee. The issue is buying in app presents significant value to developers, and so they want to be able to do that for free. Which is understandable, but doesn't entitle them to freeload any more than I am entitled to set up a table in Walmart and sell my product without giving Walmart a cut.
BMW can’t charge by mile. No car company can do that if they sell it to you. Only exception is if they’re leasing it.
Actually, why talk about things that you don't really grok?
Wouldn't the world have been so much better if:
* electricity had never been standardized within countries - imagine not being able to use a new device because it only works on Edison power, not Westinghouse power (which is the only power available in your neighborhood), in 2025. Sure, we have power differences across the world, but converters are freely available... oh but converters between the two formats wouldn't be allowed because of patents, licensing, etc. Ah, but you can move to another city if you care about using that device enough, right?
* the Internet had never been standardized - only Apple devices can communicate using AppleTalk v.2025 (as it's a proprietary standard, encumbered by licensing and NDAs). Oh, but I'm sure the world's routers will gladly pay Apple for the privilege of carrying AppleTalk traffic.
* the floppy disk, cassette tape, VHS tape, the PC motherboard and BIOS, CDs, DVDs, etc. had never become standardized. (Yes there were format wars, but ultimately one format prevailed above all others as the de-facto standard) Imagine if the iPod could *only* play Apple-formatted audio files (no MP3 for you!).
When it comes to accessories and device interoperability, there is usually a huge market advantage to making your product interoperable. The only reason Apple can "get away" with making proprietary ports and standards is because of their size. But history has shown us time and time and time again that proprietary standards never last long-term, and open standards nearly always prevail. Open standards are a good thing.
The tools are included because they need to be interoperable. So any of diagnostic tools are sold on the market for anyone to buy.
Most car parts can be replaced by either OEM or non-OEM that needs to meet the same minimum specifications.
A perfect summary that cuts through all of this.
I can't even imagine how awful it would be if Microsoft or Apple (just as a random example) owned email and we were all having to pay them a fee in perpetuity to conduct simple communications.
✌️ 👏
You know you just admitted that there are different lock-ins and Apples one of it?
Just because Samsung has one too and you “felt” it wasn't a problem to switch, that doesn't make the lock-in any better.
This! 👆
We should all be in this together as consumers.
Lock-in = not good, for anyone, anywhere, anytime (on consumer side I mean -- of course the jailer likes the jail cell)
As a customer I can. As a publisher of apps, seller of services, or accessories producer, I can't choose which operating system my customers use.It's also important to note you can choose an alternate carrier and phone.
"Apple hits back".... *sigh*
Perhaps this is no longer the case in other states and countries. For example, I can think of a union of states where judges can simply be removed from office and former investigators can be prosecuted. Led by an orange-haired man.
And maybe the editors don't know this, but going to a european court is not a “fight". It's not “hitting back". It's not “Now I'm going to destroy you with emotions and as much manipulation as possible".
It is a legal dispute in a — surprise — system of justice. In which judges are independent and are not impressed by the size of a company or its emotional blackmail.
In court, it is the presentation of the evidence that counts. The facts.
Now think about this:
Has Apple presented any kind of factual argument so far and backed it up with evidence?
If not, you know how good Apple's chances are of getting away with its attempt at emotional manipulation. That might work in the orange-haired man's confederation of states, but not in a system of justice.
Perhaps this is no longer the case in other states and countries. For example, I can think of a union of states where judges can simply be removed from office and former investigators can be prosecuted. Led by an orange-haired man.
And maybe the editors don't know this, but going to a european court is not a “fight". It's not “hitting back". It's not “Now I'm going to destroy you with emotions and as much manipulation as possible".
It is a legal dispute in a — surprise — system of justice. In which judges are independent and are not impressed by the size of a company or its emotional blackmail.
In court, it is the presentation of the evidence that counts. The facts.
Now think about this:
Has Apple presented any kind of factual argument so far and backed it up with evidence?
If not, you know how good Apple's chances are of getting away with its attempt at emotional manipulation. That might work in the orange-haired man's confederation of states, but not in a system of justice.
Welp, here's news 4 U: after 11 years or whatever, and a pandemic to entice, Apple finally added the option to sent someone a link to join a FaceTime call on any device they please. Work in a web browser to boot, and get this, isn't limited to Safari for Windows. Wait....
Open FaceTime, tap the link, bottom left, and, well, it's obvious.
This is a German minister, not EU, but ok. He points out, that some specific regulations are counterproductive, and I agree. The so-called AI Act for example was really premature. Well-intentioned, but probably not necessary (yet).And European companies shouldn't have a right to use Apple's hard work for free. It chills innovation. But don't listen to me, even European ministers think they've gone too far.
See:
‘Pendulum has swung way too far’ on EU regulating tech, says German minister
“We have to master technology ourselves,” Karsten Wildberger tells POLITICO.www.politico.eu
The idea that Europe has to reduce the dependency on foreign IT services is also something I completely agree with. I think the public sector should do what is necessary to help local cloud services to flourish. The new US administration has shown us quite drastically how quickly the trans-atlantic relationship can sour.
I had this exact reaction when I saw the title.
The more appropriate way to report on this story involves not editorializing the headline in this way.
Last edited:
As a public company with a fiduciary duty to the shareholders to maximize value… Apple is in a tough position where they have to find compromise as best they can. But it seems to me the handwriting is on the wall that governments around the world are gonna keep trying to force Apple to do whatever they want, and further and further erode security and privacy.
Personally, I think at some point they are going to have to make a stand and flatly refuse, and say that if changes aren't made to those laws, they will refuse to sell their products in that jurisdiction. Could you imagine Apple refusing to sell their products in the EU. Obviously that would significantly impact their bottom line, but I feel like those governments would have to cave at some point because their citizens would be so pissed off that they would have to pay a huge surcharge to obtain them through unofficial channels.
The easiest example is if a jurisdiction decided to attempt to force Apple to put a back door into the operating system. Apple has steadfastly refused to do so. If they find themselves in a situation where they either are going to be fined every single day that they refuse to comply, their only option would be to refuse to continue doing business in that jurisdiction.
There is no reason to force Walmart to provide shelf space to competitors. Why? Because a competitor can easily buy a plot of land next to Walmart and build a competing store. That's the beauty of free markets. Competitors keep each other in check. This is (was) not possible on smartphones, especially iPhones. There is only one app store.
As a side note. When large retail chains merge in the EU, it's very common that the anti-trust authorities will demand that the merging companies sell off individual stores in some places or outright prohibit the merger. This is to prevent the situation that one company dominates a certain geography and gains too much power to set prices. I believe the US government has similar powers.
It’s getting harder and harder to justify supporting Apple with my money. They’re anti consumer, anti union, but pro authoritarian government
They treat developers like crap and push out unfinished software updates with terrible UI design.
It sucks not having a really credible alternative the way I left Windows for Mac OS. I feel locked in and I’m sure Apple loves that
They treat developers like crap and push out unfinished software updates with terrible UI design.
It sucks not having a really credible alternative the way I left Windows for Mac OS. I feel locked in and I’m sure Apple loves that
This transition of late (at least more publicly) is one of the more conflicting and under considered aspects of supporting modern Apple.
It really started when the push to "services" became a major focus at Apple. Before that the interests of Apple and the customer were perfectly aligned. What was good for Apple was largely also good for the customer. Since then Apple has made some very hostile decisions to protect their revenue from services. You don't feel it so much on macOS yet, but I'm afraid that the smartphone business practices will increasingly be also introduced on the Mac platform.
That's the real world. Example: as a maker of Honda specific accessories you can't just install them on a Toyota.
As a consumer, you can vote with your $$$.
If you (the royal you) are concerned about the treatment of the devs, factory workers, staff, management and software quality of Apple you have options.
I feel locked in to Windows and I'm sure Microsoft loves that as well.
Ok, but why would I need/want to? There is a flourishing market of OEM or non-OEM parts for Honda AND Toyota cars!
I don't believe that. There are certain tools that will only be sold to authorized shops. As far as non-oem parts, sure tires and brake pads. Put a non-oem rod (as an example) in your vehicle and the engine fails on that rod, you won't be able to get warranty service.
What gives you the right to publish software on any platform you choose bypassing the owner?
Pretty sure ARM was not a free ride.
Back when everybody thought ARM sucked, Apple invested like $3M in them to license technology for CPU's for their Newton hand-held. In 2023, Apple paid $735M to extend their architecture license through 2040. Apple was one of the founders of the ARM joint-venture (along with Acorn Computers and VLSI) -- and Apple is largely responsible for the success of ARM in the industry -- by designing ARM chips that far-exceeded the performance of the CISC mobile chips Intel was putting out.
Apple did for ARM what Tesla did for electric cars. Tesla showed that electric cars could perform in addition to their conservation of resources. Apple showed that ARM chips could perform and not just conserve power in mobile devices.
But yes, ARM was **not** an American innovation. Acorn Computers was a British company and made the original innovations (pre-ARM). ARM was the joint venture between Acorn, Apple and VLSI to take the technology to the next level. https://newsroom.arm.com/blog/arm-official-history