Apple Hunting for Wireless Modem Engineers Near Qualcomm's San Diego Headquarters

[827538]

California does not allow non-compete employment clauses, so Qualcomm can't stop Apple from hiring these people, but it does make me wonder how much an ex-Qualcomm employee could contribute at Apple without using proprietary information they absorbed while working at Qualcomm.

I think that’s the whole point. Apple can afford to pay ludicrous amounts for the best engineers at Qualcomm, in return they essentially get access to Qualcomm’s tech. Now I’m sure eventually Qualcomm will launch a law suite claiming such - but being able to prove that against a company with limitless resources is in my opinion a near impossible feat. How do you PROVE they stole your proprietary ip? I hardly think Apple will go around handing out detailed schematics of their modem designs.

Tbh I fully expected this from Apple. They’ve been bringing everything in house, CPU, power management chips, GPU etc. The big thorny one was always the modem tech.

Also when Sprint and Verizon eventually ditch CDMA and go full LTE/5G then Apple can likely forgo the headache of including CDMA in their modem - as I believe Qualcomm own a lot of patents regarding it, hence why they’ve been so good for dual GSM/CDMA modems.

Integrating all this stuff together could really push Apple’s hardware way above the rest, as well as save them a lot of cash. Modem patents in my opinion are really stifling innovation and development at the moment. Qualcomm is essentially using them to hold back competitors - they’re a pretty bad company that happens to make fantastic modems.

 

[Emanuel Rodriguez]

PSA: to avoid being mistaken for a wireless modem engineer, do not wear their telltale thick glasses, flannel shirts, and lustrous hipster facial hair. Please advise family members to do the same until the end of wireless modem engineer season. Thank you.

I like you. You're funny.

 

[rjjacobson]

It wasn’t a hardware issue. It was software. Apple fixed in iOS 12.1. I have the Max and I’ve never had any reception or WiFi issues.

I did a little poll. So far 30 responses. About half had LTE issues fixed by 12.1 (mine was) but half have not. One or two said it did not help till 12.1.1 beta. Anyway like some surmised the problem is well within a minor amount of 20 plus million sold

 

[Weaselboy]

Now I’m sure eventually Qualcomm will launch a law suite claiming such - but being able to prove that against a company with limitless resources is in my opinion a near impossible feat. How do you PROVE they stole your proprietary ip?

I mentioned it in another post, but if I was Qualcomm and I thought Apple had used proprietary tech they got from a Qualcomm engineer they hired, I would drag those engineers into depositions all day long to get to the truth. Like you said, it would not be easy, but Apple will need to be very careful how they use these people in my not a lawyer opinion.

 

[Azathoth123]

I believe Apple’s goal is to get away from Qualcomm patents, to be independent of Qualcomm altogether. Given their resources they can certainly throw enough money at the issue to ‘solve’ it.

Qualcomm is in some ways like Intel, Apple is (or was) dependent on them, and Apple may solve both ‘problems’ with its own custom silicon. When you see what theyve done with the 7nm A12/A12X SOC and neural engine, why would they depend on Intel for 12nm chips that haven’t advanced very much relative to Apple’s silicon?

 

[VictorTango777]

The problem with justifying Apple's actions is that Apple fans don't like it when other companies do the same thing, like when Amazon tries to completely take over local markets, or when Best Buy sold iPhone X at inflated prices during initial release ("Free market", "If you don't like, don't buy"...).

 

[rjohnstone]

I believe Apple’s goal is to get away from Qualcomm patents, to be independent of Qualcomm altogether. Given their resources they can certainly throw enough money at the issue to ‘solve’ it.

Qualcomm is in some ways like Intel, Apple is (or was) dependent on them, and Apple may solve both ‘problems’ with its own custom silicon. When you see what theyve done with the 7nm A12/A12X SOC and neural engine, why would they depend on Intel for 12nm chips that haven’t advanced very much relative to Apple’s silicon?

Apple will never get away from Qualcomm. They are a major contributor to the SEP library of patents required for 2G, 3G, 4G, and now 5G cell communications.
Even Intel has to pay Qualcomm for use of their patents.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Check the forum over 120 pages of the issue.

lol. That's hardly a large issue. Especially considering the same people all have 10+ posts a piece in the thread.

 

[rjohnstone]

lol. That's hardly a large issue. Especially considering the same people all have 10+ posts a piece in the thread.

Go hit up Apples community forums... its an issue.

 

[coolX]

California does not allow non-compete employment clauses, so Qualcomm can't stop Apple from hiring these people, but it does make me wonder how much an ex-Qualcomm employee could contribute at Apple without using proprietary information they absorbed while working at Qualcomm.

Apple can afford to hire the engineers and have them do nothing so as to sabotage QUalcomm.

 

[mikethemartian]

LOL, I was thinking along the same lines. Here's what popped into my head...

"Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting wyewess modem engineews."

I never knew Bugs was a wireless engineer.

 

[69Mustang]

I think that’s the whole point. Apple can afford to pay ludicrous amounts for the best engineers at Qualcomm, in return they essentially get access to Qualcomm’s tech. Now I’m sure eventually Qualcomm will launch a law suite claiming such - but being able to prove that against a company with limitless resources is in my opinion a near impossible feat.

This opinion is "quantifiably" wrong. Apple has lost patent cases against multiple companies with far, far, far, far less resources than Qualcomm.

Apple can afford to pay ludicrous amounts of money for the best engineers from any company. But guess what? They won't. They aren't stupid. That's the quickest way to breed disharmony in the workplace. They'd lose just as many people (probably more) as they'd gain by overpaying a few new comers. Apple pays a competitive wage and offers an opportunity for people to work at an admired company. They've always paid a competitive wage and never had to overpay to attract talent. My opinion, of course.

Apple can afford to hire the engineers and have them do nothing so as to sabotage QUalcomm.

This isn't a cartoon. No self respecting engineer is going to a company to do nothing. Those types of people get where they are because of intelligence and drive. Besides, Apple wouldn't hire anyone to do nothing. It's not worth it and it's actually counter productive.

 

[827538]

I mentioned it in another post, but if I was Qualcomm and I thought Apple had used proprietary tech they got from a Qualcomm engineer they hired, I would drag those engineers into depositions all day long to get to the truth. Like you said, it would not be easy, but Apple will need to be very careful how they use these people in my not a lawyer opinion.

They do but I'm sure Apple probably has teams of lawyers and engineers far more capable than us who will have this well planned out.

Modems are too crucial to Apple not to do it now. Intel is in a hole and not going anywhere fast and they can't keep buying modems from Qualcomm. They have trillions of dollars of future products that are built around the capabilities of modems. They need this, and if their A-series chip is an indicator of things then I expect their modems to be very good.

 

[Tech198]

I think it would be good to eventually have an iPhone where all components are designed by Apple in U.S

 

[cmaier]

I think that’s the whole point. Apple can afford to pay ludicrous amounts for the best engineers at Qualcomm, in return they essentially get access to Qualcomm’s tech. Now I’m sure eventually Qualcomm will launch a law suite claiming such - but being able to prove that against a company with limitless resources is in my opinion a near impossible feat. How do you PROVE they stole your proprietary ip? I hardly think Apple will go around handing out detailed schematics of their modem designs.

Tbh I fully expected this from Apple. They’ve been bringing everything in house, CPU, power management chips, GPU etc. The big thorny one was always the modem tech.

Also when Sprint and Verizon eventually ditch CDMA and go full LTE/5G then Apple can likely forgo the headache of including CDMA in their modem - as I believe Qualcomm own a lot of patents regarding it, hence why they’ve been so good for dual GSM/CDMA modems.

Integrating all this stuff together could really push Apple’s hardware way above the rest, as well as save them a lot of cash. Modem patents in my opinion are really stifling innovation and development at the moment. Qualcomm is essentially using them to hold back competitors - they’re a pretty bad company that happens to make fantastic modems.

Once they sell the chip, anyone can reverse engineer it and see how it works. They can see every transistor and how it connects to every other transistor. So the design isn’t a trade secret. So as long as the employees don’t infringe patents and don’t bring along chip masks or design data (I.e. copyright infringement) what’s the problem?

 

[ani4ani]

This company () apparently wants it all. No third party suppliers for anything is their dream. The penultimate control freak company. What's next? Apple mines for their aluminum? Apple oil fields & refineries to create their own plastic? There's no end to this. They'll never be satisfied.

....and they’ll never succeed with that ambition.

 

[cmaier]

This company () apparently wants it all. No third party suppliers for anything is their dream. The penultimate control freak company. What's next? Apple mines for their aluminum? Apple oil fields & refineries to create their own plastic? There's no end to this. They'll never be satisfied.

They’ve been pretty selective,only filling in where they think they can do a better job or add value. And they’ve been right. Just look at the a series chips.

 

[ipponrg]

I think it would be good to eventually have an iPhone where all components are designed by Apple in U.S

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think all components are designed in the US (California) hence why the iPhone says “Designed in California”

Manufacturing and assembly of course is outside America. The latter will not change in the foreseeable future
[doublepost=1542347817][/doublepost]

They've always paid a competitive wage and never had to overpay to attract talent. My opinion, of course.

It’s debatable when you throw stock options into the mix. It depends how much you think Apple stock is worth to you in lieu of salary
[doublepost=1542348072][/doublepost]

It's not worth it and it's actually counter productive.

The word nothing is very subjective. The equivalence of “nothing” for engineers could be as simple as doing research for minimal gain. I’ve been at companies where we hire engineers just because they were good, and we didn’t want competitors to scoop them up. They did “nothing” for a few months before we gave them more relevant work.

Tech companies usually set aside a yearly budget for hiring. You typically have to spend it or lose it.

 

[cmaier]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think all components are designed in the US (California) hence why the iPhone says “Designed in California”

Manufacturing and assembly of course is outside America. The latter will not change in the foreseeable future
[doublepost=1542347817][/doublepost]

It’s debatable when you throw stock options into the mix. It depends how much you think Apple stock is worth to you in lieu of salary
[doublepost=1542348072][/doublepost]

The word nothing is very subjective. The equivalence of “nothing” for engineers could be as simple as doing research for minimal gain. I’ve been at companies where we hire engineers just because they were good, and we didn’t want competitors to scoop them up. They did “nothing” for a few months before we gave them more relevant work.

Tech companies usually set aside a yearly budget for hiring. You typically have to spend it or lose it.

No, not all components are designed in California. They buy many components that are designed by other companies. The overall phone is designed in the us, but many of the chips and components are designed elsewhere.

 

[iMEric984]

We love their producs, but the truth is, Apple is a dirty corporation.

All corporations are about making money. So I guess it makes all major corporations “dirty”

 

[0947347]

Rifles out
It’s a hunting season
Shoot your own engineer.
But don’t forget to tag them after

 

[ksec]

I have said this elsewhere and say this again. Modem and RF Silicon is way harder than designing and manufacturing CPU. Having said that, I wish they had started designing it 2-3 years ago. If they are only doing it now it will likely be 3-4 years before they ship it with iPhone. Although buying IPs from Mediatek and customise it themselves could be and should be a way going forward. Mediatek does not depends on Apple on anything, and doesn't even compete on the the same segment. Mediatek currently makes ~870M Profits, if they sell their IPs to Apple at $1 a unit *profits*, that is a potential of extra $250M. Assuming little support ( Cost ) given to Apple.

This company () apparently wants it all. No third party suppliers for anything is their dream. The penultimate control freak company. What's next? Apple mines for their aluminum? Apple oil fields & refineries to create their own plastic? There's no end to this. They'll never be satisfied.

They are already doing it. Apple are now sourcing the materials, from Gold, Rare earths, Aluminium for their Manufacturing partners. And in the future Apple may even source Renewable electricity for them. ( Credit Swapping, likely from an Apple funded Solar Farm )

I have been wondering for a few years already I guess a partnership is hard to break. But there is no reason why Apple isn't designing its own iOS component if they can be Fabbed from TSMC. I think they are now doing it, one component at at time. I was hoping the W3 will include 802.11ax but that was only Bluetooth 5. May be W4.... ( I was scheduling W4 for 802.11ax.... guess that will wait even longer )

I have always hoped some of these saving be passed on to customers... but now looks like Apple just wanted more margin.

 

[MacBH928]

California does not allow non-compete employment clauses, so Qualcomm can't stop Apple from hiring these people, but it does make me wonder how much an ex-Qualcomm employee could contribute at Apple without using proprietary information they absorbed while working at Qualcomm.

I never understood how this works, any one will use information he learned from some place else... its called experience. Sure you can not give away a replica of the device/procedure but info you will share will give similar results. If you know how it works, you can just rework it in another way.

 

[MoreRumors?]

Qualcomm will have to increase their engineer's compensation to retain them or probably lose them.

 

[cmaier]

We love their producs, but the truth is, Apple is a dirty corporation.

It’s dirty to give people higher paying jobs than they currently have?

It’s against the law to conspire NOT to offer jobs to competitors.