Apple Improving Open-GL?

[MrJohnson]

Also, any computer nerd loves to show off his toy, so what's a better way than to use a game to benchmark you machine? Honestly, that's partially the reason computer gaming is so appealing to the nerd-types. And all that tweaking to your machine is nerd's dream! And computer gamers are so shallow. God, it's just disgusting what kind of gamers we have today. They don't care about gameplay. It's all about pretty graphics. At least most consoles gamers aren't like that.

Halo and Halo 2 are considered the best games on XBOX but when Halo was ported to the PC people realize how mediocre the game was. It's the same game as every other FPS multiplayer.

Great graphics help make a game. It's truely a mixture between modability, story and graphics that make games the best games.


Consoles are great, don't get me wrong. They have some of the best games ever like the gran turismo series, but there will always be games that are on the PC that are better. For instance Starcraft is still one of the greatest games but when it was ported to the N64 it sucked because it was impossible to control.

 

[HiRez]

WoW comes on 4 CDs. Would not mind if games would come on 2 or more DVDs. Will happen sooner or later anyway.

They should easily all fit on a single DVD, with lots of room to spare. 700 MB * 4 CDs = 2.8 GB, and even single-layer DVDs can hold something like 4.7 GB. There have been a few games that offered a single DVD instead of multiple CDs (I recall one of the Myst games did this), but that's extra cost to offer the option and until everyone has a DVD reader, they won't switch. Just look how long it took them to stop shipping software on floppies, I can remember installers with over a dozen floppies.

 

[jouster]

That idea about making 1 huge game every year is not such a bad idea.

Except that the most recent two huge games - Doom 3 and Half Life 2 - took about five years each to develop.

I think expecting one every year might be a little optimistic.

 

[MrMacMan]

Thank God.

Apple realizes that to a great degree, IT IS ABOUT THE GAMES.

Kids buy computers, or force their parents into buying a computer that can play their games, and too bad apple can't get people to make good optomized games.

You need to retool OpenGL, you need to make it 30% faster for any of the 'usual' windows gaming companies to even look at a port.

Want to see the next half-life come to mac? thats how you are going to do it, make it easy to port, and make it able to run on something that isn't a Dual G5 system!

 

[Sol]

Apple Middleware for Games

I think expecting one every year might be a little optimistic.

Apple knows fark all about game design so I think the idea of an Apple game is flawed. However, if Apple were to develop a 3D engine every year, developers might find it easier to make Mac-only games. Most FPS games today use 3D engines from other games like Quake 3, Unreal, Doom 3 and Unreal Tournament 2004. Apple could develop the middleware and companies like Aspyr could port games with it. I have read of a project to port the Halo gameplay to the UT2004 game engine so it is not like something like this has not happened before.

 

[jouster]

Apple knows fark all about game design so I think the idea of an Apple game is flawed. However, if Apple were to develop a 3D engine every year, developers might find it easier to make Mac-only games. Most FPS games today use 3D engines from other games like Quake 3, Unreal, Doom 3 and Unreal Tournament 2004. Apple could develop the middleware and companies like Aspyr could develop games with it. I have read of a project to port the Halo gameplay to the UT2004 game engine so it is not like something like this has not happened before.

Did the original comment imply that Apple would develop the games? Holy crap - I didn't notice that. I meant that games devs would have trouble releasing one huge game per year.

Apple will certainly never have a problem in this area, as they will never attempt to develop a game.

 

[Kagetenshi]

Why are so many Mac users dead-set on playing games on this platform?

(I'm seriously curious.)

Because it's a good platform to play games on? Consoles have their place, but the computer is a superior platform for many. I'm just in opposition to the people who say that the Mac isn't already good for games (not that I'd argue against it getting better).

~J

 

[BenRoethig]

---------

For people comparing consoles to computers: please don't.

Two major reasons:
1) Console hardware is dedicated and lacks overhead from an OS and other useless hardware a computer has.
2) Graphics quality in consoles are utter crap. At best, you'll get HDTV resolutions, but the pixels on a TV are bigger and blurs the picture so it looks good. Hook up your console to a DVI display (with the proper adapters). You'll see how crappy it can get. Yes, Halo 2 (even at an HDTV resolution) looks like crap when you compare it to Doom 3 or Half Life 2.

-------

3. Consoles and computers tend to be better at different types of games. PC are better at first person shooters and RTS. Consoles are better at third person action games and sports.

4. With First Person shooters in particular, the mod community is also as big a selling point as the original game itself. Console = no mods.

 

[Nermal]

Why are so many Mac users dead-set on playing games on this platform?

For me there are two reasons.

1. I can't afford a console, as I'll also need to buy either a TV or a video capture card in order to use it (unless newer consoles have VGA or DVI ports).

2. I need a mouse! I simply cannot 'point' by using a stick.

 

[RichCoder]

Halo and Halo 2 are considered the best games on XBOX but when Halo was ported to the PC people realize how mediocre the game was. It's the same game as every other FPS multiplayer.

I don't agree with that statement. Halo for the PC came out a two years after its xbox release and still put other FPS games to shame. Graphics looked great and gameplay was revolutionary. Halo is on a short list of truely great games and an original FPS. It came out in 2001 for the xbox and 2003 for the PC and it still stands up to todays games. Mediocre? I don't agree at all.

-rich

 

[~loserman~]

Any OpenGL improvements will always be welcomed.

 

[Kagetenshi]

I don't agree with that statement. Halo for the PC came out a two years after its xbox release and still put other FPS games to shame. Graphics looked great and gameplay was revolutionary. Halo is on a short list of truely great games and an original FPS. It came out in 2001 for the xbox and 2003 for the PC and it still stands up to todays games. Mediocre? I don't agree at all.

Halo was a bad game, pure and simple. It was an embarrassment for Bungie to have released it. Level design was nonexistent, balance was out of whack, the way it dealt with inventory made no sense whatsoever, I could go on all night.

~J

 

[iris_failsafe]

The future of graphics are 3d graphics both for games and content development. You need them so for example Shake can run as fast as Discreet's Flame or that professional 3d programs such as XSI and CATIA pro enginneerr have the power to be translated to the mac...

Steve it's the graphics, you need to make the mac what SGI was in the early 90's...

 

[Platform]

This sounds good, more speed is always needed.

But will this be for Tiger or can it also come as an up-date to Panther

 

[Sol]

OS X Updates

This sounds good, more speed is always needed.

But will this be for Tiger or can it also come as an up-date to Panther

According to the Mac news sites OS X 10.3.9 will be the last update before OS X 10.4 comes out. Whatever next generation OpenGL update Apple has in mind will most likely be for later versions of Tiger.

 

[pizzach]

Thank God. Mac Gaming is horrible. OpenGL needs any improvements it can get. I barely get 1 frame a second on chess. I wonder if Chess was just a testing ground for Apple doing openGL games so that they can make a kick butt FPS.

 

[nitriletiger]

Exactly....

Or how about when Apple makes it easier for companies to make their games run well on a Mac. Its not like it was easy to get Doom 3 to run, as was said in an interview concerning Doom 3 and Apple, so maybe it'll be easier to make a particular game not suck on a Mac, which is encouraging enough.

Exactly my point, right now it isn't exactly easy to transfer games from PC to Mac, but if it is easier, faster, cheeper (etc.) than more games will come out. But also the mac market share isn't doing so well, but has increased over the years (200-2005)

-Nitriletiger

P.S. It also takes longer to convert games which means macs get left in the dust for 3 months utill a mac version comes out.

 

[MrJohnson]

I don't agree with that statement. Halo for the PC came out a two years after its xbox release and still put other FPS games to shame. Graphics looked great and gameplay was revolutionary. Halo is on a short list of truely great games and an original FPS. It came out in 2001 for the xbox and 2003 for the PC and it still stands up to todays games. Mediocre? I don't agree at all.

-rich

Have you ever played any good PC FPS? As for graphics Halo still has good graphics (except for the lack of textures...). When compaired to todays PC FPS's though (CS:S, DOD, HL2M, and all the upcomming mods) it seriously was nothing revolutionary.

 

[jeffbax]

Whatever. Stop talking to your friends about what computer they'd buy, and go look at the real market. If you look at a 'normal' person who doesn't live to play games or play with their computer you're going to find them running an inexpensive, stripped down, Intel 'graphics' that use main memory system bought at Best Buy when MSN or whatever internet provider of the week offered some big rebate that actually signed them up for three years of service at more than twice the rebate they got.

There are other components of an operating system and application layers that use 3D that are Apple's core market. Like professional workstation stuff, or even video editing could be improved some by Open GL improvements. It's not only the games, not by a long shot.

Huh? Gaming PC's are premium computers.

What are Macs? Premium computers, I don't know many people who go the Apple route for piece of **** PC uses.

Ignoring the game problem is completely stupid, its a problem, why would you WANT it to go ignored?

 

[jeffbax]

Yes that would rock.... although large games wouldn't have room for both platforms on 1 CD/DVD

Why not? Most of the heavy files is all art and sound that easily works on both platforms.

World of Warcraft is a 4 Gig game that comes on 4 CDs that work with PC and Mac.

 

[eXan]

Yes that would rock.... although large games wouldn't have room for both platforms on 1 CD/DVD

How needs CDs or even DVDs for more than 1 version of game? HD-DVD and Blue-Ray are coming!!!

 

[eXan]

LOL 2 posts in a row with the same quote

 

[GulGnu]

I don't agree with that statement. Halo for the PC came out a two years after its xbox release and still put other FPS games to shame. Graphics looked great and gameplay was revolutionary. Halo is on a short list of truely great games and an original FPS. It came out in 2001 for the xbox and 2003 for the PC and it still stands up to todays games. Mediocre? I don't agree at all.

-rich

Halo for PC was a plain mess - buggy, and needed a top-of-the-line PC just to get a decent framerate. And no, it didn't put anything "to shame". Halo is a decent shoot-em-up but that's about it.

 

[Lacero]

Doom 3 frame rates don't seem to go past 50 fps which tells me Apple's drivers need to be overhauled. It might go deeper than this, right down to the abstraction layer.

 

[Dippo]

I don't agree with that statement. Halo for the PC came out a two years after its xbox release and still put other FPS games to shame. Graphics looked great and gameplay was revolutionary. Halo is on a short list of truely great games and an original FPS. It came out in 2001 for the xbox and 2003 for the PC and it still stands up to todays games. Mediocre? I don't agree at all.

-rich

Multiplayer for the Xbox was about the only good thing about Halo.

The graphics were only okay, the gameplay was very repetitive.
The first few levels of the game were good, but the rest just sucked.

Halo certianly doesn't stand up to today's games!!!
Haven't you played Half Life 2??