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If standard cable with a bunch of channels and includes espn and it's only $40...why would someone pay $20 for ONE channel. What if they want 10 more channels that they watch and they are $5/each?

you're going to end up paying $30 more/month than standard cable and only have 11 channels. Keep in mind the greed of these companies. Channels aren't going to be 99cents/month.

You are thinking in your head this is going to be some cheap option. The consumer will have a choice, but will be penalized in some way. Also, if everyone is dropping cable tv and their provider also provides their internet connect....what do you think is going to happen?

Internet prices will rise heavily and data caps will appear.

The whole idea in theory sounds great, but until consumers change their habits we will still have high prices. We show them that we are willing to pay the expensive cable plans so why should they change? If they do change, it won't be for them losing any money.

Go look at the AT&T Next program. People will be dumb enough to sign up for that.

See my earlier post - https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/17778212/

For the most part, I've agreed with you and/or already said the same thing in other posts. I don't think other channels will be $5. They'd have to be less in order to be cost effective to the consumer. When people do start dropping cable to get 6 stations, even to save $10-20 a month the message will get sent to the cable companies, channels and everyone that we are tired of paying for content that isn't used.

I have also stated earlier that this won't change over night. The data caps / bandwidth issue will take time. It may take years, but the future is going to be wireless.

People still buy CDs and DVDs and even use RedBox. It will take years before cable goes away. This will be a first step in changing everything.
 
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so if it's a $30 discount and u only have 6 channels that would be OK with you? There's got to be some kind of in between compromise now that you can make?

Of the cable channels I have now, I probably do 99% of my viewing on about 6 of those.

ESPN(s)
Big Ten Network (only during football season)
Fox Sports
HBO

I honestly could live without the rest. There is Netflix for $8 and OTA antenna for local ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox.

So if I could get those channels for $50, yes, sign me up today. Aside from sports and HBO, there isn't much I watch that isn't on Netflix.
 
All I know is if it does become a case of less for more (as a total against current cable bills), no one will switch. My pkg, that is the U-Verse 300 is roughly $80 (with HD and HBO). 99% of my viewing is done on about 6 channels. If I can get those 6 channels for $50 or less it's a no brainer. If it's $60 it's a toss up. If it's more then I'd probably stay with cable.

A la carte will always more money per individual item than a bundle deal. The question of which is a better value (bundle or a la carte) comes down to the individual user. For people that watch a variety of shows and channels bundling will probably be cheaper but for people that only watch a handful of channels a la carte might be cheaper. I can see many cases though where the overall savings isn't as significant as some people hope it will be. It feels like someone people, and I'm not saying you are one of them, expect to get access to every movie, TV show and sporting event on demand, on any device for some obscenely low amount like $30 a month.
 
As has been shared many times before in many threads like this...

Apple already provides an al-a-carte, commercial-free cable TV alternative

The iTunes store has long carried Apple's own shot at giving the people what they want in terms of on-demand & commercial-free television. The problem: few want to pay the price that the market wants for television in that way.

Only sort of. The purchase model in the iTunes store is "buy", that is, the equivalent of buying the program on DVD/BluRay. Which is all well and good for something you may want to watch over and over again throughout the years.

But that's not the only model, and probably not the best comparison to a "cable/satellite replacement" system. Now we get to a more Netflix/Hulu type of model, where everything is streamed without permanent ownership, and it'll probably look a lot more like the "on demand" section of your existing cable/satellite company. That is, a list of some number of recent episodes of the programs that you can stream at-will, but which will potentially become unavailable after some period of time.

This may even lead to a two-tier model where there's one price with (non-skippable) commercials and a higher price for commercial-free. (Or, more likely, stream with commercials at one price, "own" with no commercials at prices comparable to today.)

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A la carte will always more money per individual item than a bundle deal.

Right... it boils down to sometimes taking A + B + C + D because the bundle of four is cheaper than just A + B + C. But if you only want A + B, that might be cheaper than the bundle.
 
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A la carte will always more money per individual item than a bundle deal. The question of which is a better value (bundle or a la carte) comes down to the individual user. For people that watch a variety of shows and channels bundling will probably be cheaper but for people that only watch a handful of channels a la carte might be cheaper. I can see many cases though where the overall savings isn't as significant as some people hope it will be. It feels like someone people, and I'm not saying you are one of them, expect to get access to every movie, TV show and sporting event on demand, on any device for some obscenely low amount like $30 a month.

Well since you quoted me where I said $50 is a no brainer and $60 is a price point where it becomes a toss up for me, it is safe to say I'm NOT one of those expecting $30, lol.

I don't know what to expect. All I know is what I'd be comfortable paying and if consumers look at a-la-carte and it ends up costing more than their current cable bill they'd be foolish to switch. If not enough people switch there won't be money to be made by Apple. I'm sure Apple has done their homework and has figured out a way to make money and get people to buy into this. Cable will still be the right move for some people, just like dumb phones are still the right device for some people. For others, a-la-carte may make sense.
 
And then there is this near complete ignorance to the whole television subsidy model. Commercials throw a TON of money into the system to make it all go. That's other people (the companies that buy all that commercial space) paying into the system to help subsidize the total cost of all that programming we covet. How much is that? I've done the math. To eliminate the commercials but not kill that revenue, every household in America would need to pay more than $50 per month. Is $50 per month a "premium" people would pay for commercial free?

But why not offer this as an option? If this really would subsidize the total cost of all that programming, what would the cable companies have to lose by saying, "You have the option to add $50 to your bill to get a commercial-free experience"? Obviously most people wouldn't take it, but if this would genuinely cover the cost, what would they have to lose with offering this as a choice?

That's currently why I use a DVR, to skip commercials, but I have been predicting for years and still feel strongly that cable companies will move to a Hulu-like model where commercials are not skippable within DVRs so you cannot avoid watching them. It's the only thing that makes sense to me, since as more and more people go to DVRs, and more and more advertisers realize their ads they are paying so much for are not even being WATCHED, the less they will be willing to pay, and the more the cable companies will lose out. The only way to get that revenue back is to make commercials unskippable, so the advertisers will be willing to pay top-dollar again. And consumers will keep paying for the DVR anyway, because they're so used to the luxury of being able to pause and time-shift their programming that they don't want to give it up. And at that time I'll be stuck having to watch commercials again. So yeah, I WOULD be willing to pay an additional $50 per month to be completely ad-free. I might be a minority, but I'm sure there are others out there. I don't see why it can't at least be an OPTION. Or am I missing something here?
 
Or am I missing something here?

Product placement, sponsorships and integrated marketing. The advertising is being woven into the shows themselves (and in some cases it can be changed digitally so different products can be shown during reruns and/or syndication). No commercials to skip, advertisers get their exposure and networks/shows get their ad revenue.
 
I don't see why it ($50/month for commercial free) can't at least be an OPTION. Or am I missing something here?

I like the idea of that option myself. However, the point that I was making with that number was relative to so many al-a-carte dreamers imagining a commercial-free, al-a-carte, cable-tv killer from Apple for something like $10, $20 or $30/month. What I was illustrating was that simply replacing the revenue from the commercials running on those "hundreds of channels I never watch" alone would require a starting cost of $50/month. In short, I was trying to use reality to illustrate the faults of the typical dream of al-a-carte (which is usually something like "I want everything for next to nothing in cost").

So, $50/month is the starting point for commercial free. Add on the cost of the al-a-carte channels or shows "I" actually want to watch (which is almost never as cheap as the al-a-carte dreamers think). Add on the Apple markup (probably the usual 30%). In an article I saw yesterday, it pegged the average cost of a television subscription package (cable/satt) that we Americans actually pay is around $74/month (obviously some pay more but others pay less). So, if we start at $50, we can add on only $24 additional cost before we bump into what we're paying now. $24 is not going to buy many channels or shows AND give Apple 30% off the top.

I've made the case that the cable companies which are also the broadband internet provider for many would not just roll over and let Apple take that cable subscription revenue... that they would raise broadband rates to make up the difference, only to have some let on like that just won't happen. So, decide for yourself: what do you think a Comcast or Time Warner would do? If you think broadband would rise to make up for cable TV revenue losses, add that cost onto the bill too. If not, leave it off.

Now, mentally compare that bill to the "as is" model. Is there meaningful savings? If so, is it worth it against the existing model which does allow us to find something to watch on those "hundreds of channels I never watch" when the 3 or 5 or 10 channels we would want in al-a-carte has nothing to watch. DVRs do make it easy to skip commercials. DVRs also give us an on-demand experience of the shows we care enough to set up as recordings. And many systems have quite a good on-demand library now.

As I've said, I love the dream of al-a-carte and commercial-free al-a-carte. I just don't see it flying as often dreamed, especially against the most common piece of the dream which is cutting the cable bill from something like $100 to about $10 or $20 and still getting everything "I" want.

The cord cutter tales makes it sound like it's easily doable now- and in some ways it is- but if the masses move on cutting the cord, the costs will shift to keep the revenues stream flowing from consumers to the existing players. I saw in an article yesterday that in spite of seemingly so much talk about cord-cutting, only 1% of U.S. households have actually cut that cord. If it became 5% or 10%, I completely expect broadband rates to rise (see the link in my prior post) to make up the difference.

IMO, the only way around that is for an Apple (or others) to find some way to bypass the broadband middlemen, connecting us consumers directly to iCloud without having to pay a Comcast, Time Warner, Verizon, AT&T, etc a toll. That companion rumor would be key to lending any real hope of "everything for cheaper than now" (for the masses)... though I personally believe al-a-carte only real chance is if the net out-of-pocket from consumers would actually be greater than it is in the "as is" system now.

To me, the analogy is as simple as iPhone and cellular service plans. Apple invented a piece of "wow" technology but that didn't result in huge savings of cell service plans. I would suspect that if we did a little research, we would probably find the average paid for cell service plan in 2013 exceeds the average paid in 2006. If true, the service providers make MORE money, not less because of the "toll" they can charge to make a big Apple innovation work. When there's hardly any real competition, consumers can't really shop around much to make a dent in service plan costs. And when it comes to wired broadband, our ability to shop around is typically limited to maybe 2 providers (both of which are likely in the cable TV business too).

Now some of us envision a new little box or maybe a whole television from Apple but somehow the tollmasters who feed it the absolutely essential data it needs to work are going willingly take a huge hit so that we can pay a lot less for service than we were in 2013, 2012, etc. Some of these cable TV providers are the very same companies as the cellular service providers but we are expecting a different outcome for this data- an amazing generosity on their part to just hand their cable revenues over to Apple without doing anything to try to make up the difference... even though Apple's service couldn't stream 1 second of any show without that data flowing through pipes owned by the likes of AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, Time Warner. Etc. Think about it.
 
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Apple nearly has a commercial free option now by letting you buy shows. But at $2.99 per episode it adds up quickly. I do it for shows I really love and like to binge watch (Breaking Bad). But it would be great if they were available on the same day as the broadcast.

The brief time they offered the Rental option at $0.49 per episode was closer to a good price but the 24 hour rental period sucked. With a DVR I can save a whole season of a show as long as I want, just with ads.

If there was a $50 per month fee that let me watch for the entire season or at least a few months it would settle it for me if it included most channels. I think it will need to be negotiated per channel/app though. Unless there's a Hulu Plus Plus Plus type app that's $50/month.

I wouldn't expect News or most live events will ever be commercial free.

Whatever model works. I just hope they figure it out. It would be the KILLER App for AppleTV.
 
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Please give me a standalone ESPN app that I can watch live TV (without having a cable tv subscription) on my apple TV for $4.99 a month, or even $9.99 :D

Be prepared to pay more than that. I think I read one time that ESPN costs your cable company about $12 a month.
 
Originally Posted by MikeDTyke
Cos there's no profit made from a $99 hockey puck and you still have a fugly TV UI overlay and a remote with 50 buttons that most of which you have no idea what'll do.

1. Profit comes from the 30% of your IAP subscription to the channel/pack
1. sure there might be other streams of profit, but Apple will be jostling with the content providers over the percentage and even if Apple does get 30% that won't move the needle in the same way as itunes and app store don't move the needle. They are supporting acts.

2. No TV overlay, your UI is from the Apple TV. Which could use a little work yes, like simply adopting the same iOS icons, customizing layout etc. But is hardly fugly
2. I mean apple tv doesn't control the full experience as it stands, your input control, volume, contrast etc are all overlayed by the TV, designed by a blind, tasteless engineer.

3. Remote is like six buttons or you can use the Remote app. Which could be really nice on an iPad if the channel wants to have second screen activities. You could have the app on your iPad inked to the ATV one and have your twitter feeds or whatever in your lap and not cluttering the TV.

3. Again i mean you still have your TV remote that'll still be needed to turn the thing on, switch to the right input and do all the things above. They are designed by idiots that never heard the acronym UI much less UX.


Im summary, the hardware's gonna have to go up in price as little cuts of someones channel subscription aint' gonna cover it all. Couple that with owning the UI & UX experience and you know there's gonna be a Apple TV Screen.
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