Apple in Online Film-Rental Deal with Fox Studio?

[Xtoo]

One thing we gotta be concerned about and Apple must figure out is the fact that we all want HD content to download. This Christmas weekend I bought "Ratatouille" through my XBOX 360 in HD. I am sure it was 720 and not 1080.

At home I have Time Warner cable internet. I thought the download would take 1 hour tops. To my surprise, it took about 2.5 - 3.0 hrs. I ended up watching it the next day. Grrrrrr!

So how in the world, could we download a 1080 film. Not in the near future. If we get to download HD it will be 720. Unless Apple puts to use some miracle technology which I doubt.

On the other hand, Mr. Jobs, lets not do the same mistake MS did with my $6.00 (yes! $6.00 rental):
1 Play and is over in 24hrs. 1 fuc**ing play???????
That is the way Gates play. 14 days to expire from the time downloaded, but the moment you hit play it destroys itself (puuufff) in a 24 hrs.
Bulls**t!

If Apple really goes for anything less than $4.00 per rental, we will be lucky if it is 720. Most likely, it will be standard def.
And don't treat us like MS with the XBOX downloads. Thanks!

 

[ph0rk]

Not at all. It was a gift certificate for 50 songs purchased by my employer and given to me the previous Christmas. It is purchased from Apple and mailed as a letter with a number on it that you redeem and add to your account. It was not a dollar amount, and not a regift. I can tell you the support people either know nothing or are instructed to pretend that they are stupid. A discussion with them can go nowhere. There is absolutely no reason that an amount of money that has been paid to them to purchase song credits (or whatever they want to call that stuff) should expire, but mine did. It's not even an issue with a certificate or a card expiring. The credits *were* added to my account within a reasonable time frame and I even used a few of them to buy songs back in October. The remaining credits were showing up on the little username button in iTunes.

I'd have been suspicious of a gift of "songs" not dollars, anyway. I'm guessing the card itself had a hard expire date - really, I don't think I'd expect a gift card from anyone to last much past a year. Those things aren't like real money.

I'd have used it immediately.

 

[LeChuck]

I'd have been suspicious of a gift of "songs" not dollars, anyway. I'm guessing the card itself had a hard expire date - really, I don't think I'd expect a gift card from anyone to last much past a year. Those things aren't like real money.

I'd have used it immediately.

It might not be in their offer today but it was last year. Why be suspicious. That was something that they did offer for purchase. It doesn't matter if the certificate had an expiration date. It was used and added to my account, in other words, "redeemed". There was *real* money involved when purchasing the certificate. The money is now in the possession of Apple.

 

[TMay]

The options that Apple offers are usually designed to help only Apple. Their options are too expensive and restrictive, and somehow the consumers keep buying them. On another note, yesterday I wanted to buy some music off of the iTunes store, despite the DRMs. I still had about 40 song credits on there. I discovered that my credits have simply disappeared, expired they said. That was money already paid to them, in the form of a gift certificate. They call it expired and I call it theft. You should see how surreal the discussions are with their "support" people.

And here's the other catch: I've got song credits but I can't buy an album with them, only songs. Then of course, I can't buy all the songs from an album because Apple makes some of them, often the longest ones or the most known ones, "album only". No matter how you look at it, it is designed to rip you off. So when I see this kind of news, I can't help but think of yet another ripoff. Last time I wanted to buy an album (and the credits were still in my account), I faced that frustration, then went to Amazon and saw that their downloads were cheaper and I could get the whole album that way, without DRMs and in higher quality, then I saw that the actual CD was only a couple bucks more and I could get free shipping, so I got the CD. And yet I have (or had) those unused credits.

Want to download music at a good price and without the restrictions, and especially without the dirty feeling of having to give more cash to Apple, buy from Amazon.

I use an iMac and I'm saving up for a Macbook Pro. How can I buy products that I like so much from a company I dislike so much. I'm going to need therapy.

Here's a link to someone with your same issue:

http://platinumelite.blogspot.com/2007/05/my-fight-with-apple-regarding-itunes.html


From apple faqs:

Does the Apple Gift Card expire?
Apple does not place an expiration date on Apple Gift Cards. However, there may be rules defined by the laws of your state that require Apple to terminate your right to use your Apple Gift Card if you have not used it within a specified number of years. Under those laws, Apple is required to attempt to contact you before terminating your right to use your card.


Your's were third party song certificates as by definition, Apple doesn't sell these. I don't know why the policies exist for third party song certificates and promotions (probably to prevent fraud, but they may exist at the third parties request, ie, the third party pays only for redemptions until a drop dead date).

I think you need to get over this.

 

[Popeye206]

Not at all. It was a gift certificate for 50 songs purchased by my employer and given to me the previous Christmas. It is purchased from Apple and mailed as a letter with a number on it that you redeem and add to your account. It was not a dollar amount, and not a regift. I can tell you the support people either know nothing or are instructed to pretend that they are stupid. A discussion with them can go nowhere. There is absolutely no reason that an amount of money that has been paid to them to purchase song credits (or whatever they want to call that stuff) should expire, but mine did. It's not even an issue with a certificate or a card expiring. The credits *were* added to my account within a reasonable time frame and I even used a few of them to buy songs back in October. The remaining credits were showing up on the little username button in iTunes.

LeChuck.... I guess where we're all confused is the use of Song Credits??? iTunes works in money values so I'm not sure how they bought song credits last year. Also.... I have a background in gift cards. All gift cards expire if they are not redeemed over a period of time. There are actually federal and state guidelines for this as to how much can "expire" (Some states dont allow it at all). The reason they do this is gift card revenue although real money, can not be counted as bottom line revenue until it is redeemed for product. So in accounting terms, they have the money, but the card is unrealized revenue until it's redeemed. So, because so many gift cards are never redeemed they expire over time. Usually a small percentage after 1 or 2 years until they are exhausted. If they did not, billions of dollars would be sitting in accounts and companies would not be able to call the money theirs or they would be come a liability.

WIth that said. I went through the iTunes terms and conditions. I looked at several disclosures (All are easy to read) and nowhere did any of them talk about redeemed gift cards or otherwise expiring. So.... my guess is since your 50 songs expired so quickly, I would think you were given or sold something that was promotional in nature. Promotions can expire by any amount of time determined by the company. So, this leads me to this conclusion.

So.... I Don't want to call you a liar. I believe you have run into a real problem and I have personally experienced some what I call the Apple Customer Service "black hole". Twice I've had to be escalated to a resolution specialist for different problems. So, I would recommend asking to be connected with a resolution specialist if you can.

I hope this helps!

 

[Peace]

[snip]

One thing we gotta be concerned about and Apple must figure out is the fact that we all want HD content to download. This Christmas weekend I bought "Ratatouille" through my XBOX 360 in HD. I am sure it was 720 and not 1080.

At home I have Time Warner cable internet. I thought the download would take 1 hour tops. To my surprise, it took about 2.5 - 3.0 hrs. I ended up watching it the next day. Grrrrrr!

So how in the world, could we download a 1080 film. Not in the near future. If we get to download HD it will be 720. Unless Apple puts to use some miracle technology which I doubt.

That's the one thing that bothers me. When everybody that has broadband starts downloading all these movies the tubes are going to get clogged. And if not clogged then throttled by companies like Comcast Cable. This will create a really bad experience.

 

[LeChuck]

LeChuck.... I guess where we're all confused is the use of Song Credits??? iTunes works in money values so I'm not sure how they bought song credits last year. Also.... I have a background in gift cards. All gift cards expire if they are not redeemed over a period of time. There are actually federal and state guidelines for this as to how much can "expire" (Some states dont allow it at all). The reason they do this is gift card revenue although real money, can not be counted as bottom line revenue until it is redeemed for product. So in accounting terms, they have the money, but the card is unrealized revenue until it's redeemed. So, because so many gift cards are never redeemed they expire over time. Usually a small percentage after 1 or 2 years until they are exhausted. If they did not, billions of dollars would be sitting in accounts and companies would not be able to call the money theirs or they would be come a liability.

WIth that said. I went through the iTunes terms and conditions. I looked at several disclosures (All are easy to read) and nowhere did any of them talk about redeemed gift cards or otherwise expiring. So.... my guess is since your 50 songs expired so quickly, I would think you were given or sold something that was promotional in nature. Promotions can expire by any amount of time determined by the company. So, this leads me to this conclusion.

So.... I Don't want to call you a liar. I believe you have run into a real problem and I have personally experienced some what I call the Apple Customer Service "black hole". Twice I've had to be escalated to a resolution specialist for different problems. So, I would recommend asking to be connected with a resolution specialist if you can.

I hope this helps!

Let me explain this again. I work in a small company of 10 people. Last year, at Christmas, we all got a gift certificate for 50 songs, bought online and directly from Apple, received by mail directly from Apple. It was not a card but a printed certificate. It is not a promotion. It's something that they used to sell I guess. My certificate number was redeemed this year (Apple still has it because they listed it in their replies to me). I then had a credit added to my iTunes account that each song was subtracted from. Yesterday, I intended to buy more songs using the same account, and realized that the credits I had left in there have disappeared. I contacted the iTunes support, and they told me that my "song credits" (I am not making this name up, this is what they are using in their emails, along with the fact that they are "happy to help") have expired. I hope it is clear now. In any case, I'm not going to lose sleep over this, but I'll make sure I'll share my discontent when I can. A normal gesture for them would have been to restore my credits and let me use them, the amount of money that has been paid to them. They didn't do it.

 

[diamond.g]

[snip]



That's the one thing that bothers me. When everybody that has broadband starts downloading all these movies the tubes are going to get clogged. And if not clogged then throttled by companies like Comcast Cable. This will create a really bad experience.

I could see Apple hating life if all iTunes users simultaneously downloaded files, but that is unlikely. As far as I can tell iTunes uses port 80 to download music + movies, I highly doubt an internet carrier will throttle that port. Besides if it is popular enough Apple could cut ISP's in on some of the profits.

To the person you quoted, HD videos on live all start out at at least 3 GiB in size. But they also include 5.1 Audio and are of a nice bitrate (macro blocking isn't evident). Of course it is going to take a while XBL (like iTunes) isn't using bitorrent like downloads either.

 

[reldream]

Great News!

This is great news for everyone with any device.

Also, I just purchased the "Live Free or Die Hard" movie, which is made by FOX, and it came with an addition disc that had a digital copy for you to load onto your computer then sync with an iPod, iPhone, PSP or just leave on your computer for your enjoyment.

FOX has already started this on certain movies, this will be really cool to see done on every movie.

EDIT: The FOX digital copy will only work on WMP. However, converting this is simple.

 

[LeChuck]

I would pay a few dollars to be able to download a 720p version of new movies and be able to watch them when I want or when I can. It's one thing when you're a single person in front of a computer but a family is a different matter. I use Netflix and somehow we never manage to watch the movies when we intended. I don't mind a large download as long as I can then take my time and can choose whether I want to watch it in the living room on the home theater setup or on a laptop in bed. And if it gets released closer to theater dates. There was a time in life when I could go to the movies whenever I wanted, but with 3 kids, that almost never happens.

 

[network23]

If I buy a song that I think is one of the better songs I've heard in a long time, then I should have every right to share it with some of the closest people in my life, up to and including my sibling, girlfriend and best friend. I'm not mass mailing it to everyone on my contact list. There is a 5 machine max, you know...

"Five machine max" is an utter crock. I get livid when I see that on Apple's site. If they'd say "five account max", then they would be telling the truth. I have five computers in my home, yet, I am extremely restricted when it comes to listening to music if I allow my family members (five of us) to have access to the iTunes-bought songs. This means that if I'm across the house working on an XP box, I can't listen to my songs because my "registered" account is on my Mac. My wife may have registered iTunes on this XP, but that doesn't help me when I'm in my account.

I've seriously thought about a class-action, because it really is untrue what they promote on their website, and yet, it should be pretty easy to implement.

 

[SummWriterOne]

this rental plan sounds like great news, and I am hoping updates to the Apple TV come with this

are we expecting an announcement of this at MWSF? along with the Beatles catalog? a live appearance by Paul and Ringo? a 3G iPhone, with GPS? 5 million iPhones sold? a flash drive laptop?

It's going to be a long keynote!

 

[Popeye206]

Let me explain this again. I work in a small company of 10 people. Last year, at Christmas, we all got a gift certificate for 50 songs, bought online and directly from Apple, received by mail directly from Apple. It was not a card but a printed certificate. It is not a promotion. It's something that they used to sell I guess.

LeChuck, not to beat an expired horse, but I feel for your situation too. I know how frustrating it is when you dont get what you paid for or was given. Anyway... I did find a reference to "Song Credits"... here is the link...

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=302264

I'm not sure how these got sold to you or your employer... they indicate that these are promotional credits and not a normal iTunes gift card. My suspicion is they we're bought by someone redeeming credit card points for iTunes songs.... in which case could fall under different circumstances. However, I would not stop there. Again... I would stay after Apple CS and see if you can get the right person to help.

I've found Apple customer service to be very frustrating at times... one time I returned a Apple Care support agreement once that was included in my order without asking for it and Apple receiving lost the merchandise when it was returned (with a RMA). Apple CS kept trying to make their mistake my problem and have me jump through all sorts of hoops over this, but I refused saying it was their mistake and not mine, and eventually I got to the right person that made it all good. In fact, I got the $100 back and $100 credit to boot for my trouble. Persistence can be your friend.

Good luck!

 

[LeChuck]

LeChuck, not to beat an expired horse, but I feel for your situation too. I know how frustrating it is when you dont get what you paid for or was given. Anyway... I did find a reference to "Song Credits"... here is the link...

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=302264

I'm not sure how these got sold to you or your employer... they indicate that these are promotional credits and not a normal iTunes gift card. My suspicion is they we're bought by someone redeeming credit card points for iTunes songs.... in which case could fall under different circumstances. However, I would not stop there. Again... I would stay after Apple CS and see if you can get the right person to help.

I've found Apple customer service to be very frustrating at times... one time I returned a Apple Care support agreement once that was included in my order without asking for it and Apple receiving lost the merchandise when it was returned (with a RMA). Apple CS kept trying to make their mistake my problem and have me jump through all sorts of hoops over this, but I refused saying it was their mistake and not mine, and eventually I got to the right person that made it all good. In fact, I got the $100 back and $100 credit to boot for my trouble. Persistence can be your friend.

Good luck!

Thanks Popeye. I've got all my energy sapped by Christmas already so I'm not sure I want to bother pushing this, but I might just out of principle.

 

[Popeye206]

Thanks Popeye. I've got all my energy sapped by Christmas already so I'm not sure I want to bother pushing this, but I might just out of principle.

Principle is good. I know I would... if anything to help Apple realize those type of products can be misleading and cause bad ju-ju with new or even loyal users like those of us found here. I know my past bad experiences with CS we're expressed to everyone and anyone I could tell my story too at Apple and within the press people I know in hopes of helping them do better in the future. Even though Apple has some of the best customer service in the industry, I know it can also be there weak spot if they don't respond well to problems, concerns and issues.

BTW.... back on topic here... Woo Hoo! If a rental deal comes out that is enticing, I will have to buy an Apple TV and dump my Blockbusters account. I like the mail in program with Blockbuster, but I also love the idea of getting what I want when I want it. Not go to the store and hope they have a copy in stock! I'm really hoping for a kick-butt MacWorld this year!

 

[Random Ping]

$4.99 is not a good price. I can rent a movie Pay Per View for $3.99 and rent a movie for $3.99 at BlockBuster.

$2.99 is a much better price.

Two problems I see are that the studios are concerned about digitally piracy (thus treating their customers like criminals) and studios are concerned about Apple getting too powerful. So my guess is that none will cut a good deal for Apple -- Apple will be at least as expensive, and maybe more expensive, than some of the competitors. And there are lots of competitors out there; just to identify a few:

• Local video rental
• Netflix
• Vudu
• Pay-per-view + TiVo
• XBox 360 video rentals

 

[Random Ping]

any chance of them making a deal with netflix?

For my money, a great combination would be the FairPlay system on DVDs rented from NetFlix. Then I can rent from NetFlix, copy the DRMed content from the DVD to my computer system (maybe with a 30 day life span), send the DVD back to NetFlix and get the next one. Repeat. This way I have a good collection of videos in my house (no downloads to worry about) that I can choose from depending on my mood.

 

[Random Ping]

I would love to have a blu-ray player on TV, but I think is very unlikely to happen.

I agree, but I would like a Blu-ray drive on my workstation for backing up my data if nothing else. It would be cool if I could get a Blu-ray drive for my workstation, put in a Blue-ray movie, and stream the high-def over to my TV for displaying on my Plasma TV. This way I get the best of both worlds -- Hi-Def movies on my TV and high capacity data backup capability on my workstation.

 

[Maccus Aurelius]

If I wanted Blu-Ray hooked up to a Mac-as-set top box, I'd simply get a Mac Mini and get a Blu-Ray external drive via firewire.

As for rentals. Yes...YES please.

 

[jpine]

Not that I don't want full-res DVD download, but the issue is how big the file is and how long does it takes on an average home internet connection to download?

That's just it. I don't think there is such a thing as "average." Many small towns in "fly-over" rural America do not have broadband. Even dial-up can be expensive. My sister lives just 20 miles outside of Kansas City and pays $30.00 per month for a Kansas City phone number so she does not have to pay long distance charges for her ISP connection (dial-up). Her monthly bill (KC phone line plus ISP charge) is nearly what we pay for 15 Mbps FIOS here in southern CA.

 

[diamond.g]

That's just it. I don't think there is such a thing as "average." Many small towns in "fly-over" rural America do not have broadband. Even dial-up can be expensive. My sister lives just 20 miles outside of Kansas City and pays $30.00 per month for a Kansas City phone number so she does not have to pay long distance charges for her ISP connection (dial-up). Her monthly bill (KC phone line plus ISP charge) is nearly what we pay for 15 Mbps FIOS here in southern CA.

Well it stands to reason that dial-up users wouldn't utilize a movie download service anyways. Even near DVD quality downloads could be several hundred megabytes in size, which would take days to download.
This would be a purely broadband only affair. I believe the average BB speed to be something like 1.5 Mbps (maybe it is higher now with FIOS popping up in lots of places). And even that is slow for movie downloads. Plus Apple would have to come up with tons of loot for bandwidth, unless they have the content owner host the content or use a bittorrent like schema.

 

[AtHomeBoy_2000]

If I can move the file off the DVD through iTunes onto my iPod, I would be sooooo happy. I understand that it might have to go through iTunes and their DRM and I am ok with that.

 

[AtHomeBoy_2000]

There is no reason to bitch about the 640x480 resolution and here is why:

NTSC 601 video is non-square pixels, which for a full D1 frame is 720x486. Before this became the norm for video editing systems, many systems captured at 640x480 square pixels, which is what computer displays are based upon.

So, NTSC 601 = non-square, Computers = square.

The Media100 (v4.5 ancient now) I used to edit with used this square pixel format and I can honestly tell you it looked better than DV25 video which is 720x480 non-square.

Basically all they are doing is converting the non-square format to square format so it looks right on your computer display; which believe it or not, most people want.

If you have ever looked at a non-square pixel format file opened up in Quicktime, you can tell that it looks stretched horizontally, which is correct since computers use square pixels. All modern editing systems correct for this in the main program window.

-mark

I'll be soooo glad when this square/non-squarw pixel thing is a thing of the past. ATSC and HD cant come fast enough for me.

 

[Unspeaked]

Great so we're going to get Jobs rambling on about iTunes and Movie Rentals for 40 minutes or so are we? Time will be short enough as it is - i'm guessing this means something else (more interesting to me as a non American) will get bumped out of the keynote. Like Pro HW updates

Remember, this is MacWorld. It's become a consumer show. Last year's only announcements were the iPhone and AppleTV. I wouldn't be surprised if this year's were only an iPhone update and an AppleTV update (with a related tie-in to rentals).

Macintosh updates have become the thing of WWDC and random seasonal events...

 

[Virgil-TB2]

Yes... this may push the TV to the next level and make it more practical for me to use.

I'm wondering if these announcements relate to the rumour that the new AppleTV will have an optical drive.

If it was a standard that all DVD's came with a digital copy on the disc that was easily identified by a system like AppleTV and automatically transferred to your library on insertion ...

Could be quite a groovy setup