Apple, Intel and 'Trusted Computing'

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
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In the past few weeks, there has been much speculation and discussion about the potential use of 'Trusted Computing' technology in upcoming Apple-Intel machines. The Trusted Computing initiative has been speculated as a reason for Apple to move towards the Intel platform. The technology aims to provide a tighter control between hardware and software, allowing developers and media owners more control over the use of content on end computers. The plan, of course, has seen signficant criticism amongst many groups.

There have been reports that Apple's current developer kits have motherboards which include a Trusted Platform Module chip, however, it does not appear that Apple utilizes the technology at this time.

Readers are reminded that any speculation based on today's developer Intel Macs should be avoided as the actual production Macs will likely be entirely different. Current developer machines appear to simply be based on off-the-shelf PC motherboards.
 

Demon Hunter

macrumors 68020
Mar 30, 2004
2,245
38
I think this can only be a good thing. Apple will continue to lead in providing media content legally... with ease of use and everything... leave pirating and file sharing to those dirty Windows users. :cool: Apple's open source initiatives make it a perfect balance.
 

CubaTBird

macrumors 68020
Apr 18, 2004
2,135
0
hasn't trusted computing been around since about 1999 when those id chips were being implimented into the pentium 3's? i remember those being a huge privacy concern at that point in time..
 

admanimal

macrumors 68040
Apr 22, 2005
3,530
2
Here is a picture of the motherboard of a dev kit:

Infineon on the motherboard...

Clearly there -is- a TCPA chip in the developer kits, and other people seem to have shown that it is used...so I think this other article is questionable.
 

iMeowbot

macrumors G3
Aug 30, 2003
8,643
0
CubaTBird said:
hasn't trusted computing been around since about 1999 when those id chips were being implimented into the pentium 3's?
IIRC the Pentium thing that got people all bent out of shape initially was a serial number, and IBM started adding actual TPMs about the same time.

TCPA as originally envisioned doesn't really exist, there's no real key infrastructure out there and one needs to be in place when a system is born for it all to work with the full grand scheme.

A TPM has another nifty use, it also has built-in functions for a few popular hashes. These aren't used only for security, they crop up in all sorts of mundane applications. Apple or Transitive may well have been experimenting with the chip as a simple coprocessor.
 

EGT

macrumors 68000
Sep 4, 2003
1,606
1
As long as this doesn't interfere with legitimate computer use (how would it?) I can't see how this would be a bad thing.
 

Surreal

macrumors 6502a
Jun 18, 2004
514
29
What is really so bad about the possibility of this being used?

unless they make DRM stricted than now, there shouldnt be much of ann issue... (unless they try to stop the "burn a cd and rip it" workaround...but that would be gratuitous no?
 

shawnce

macrumors 65816
Jun 1, 2004
1,442
0
admanimal said:
Here is a picture of the motherboard of a dev kit:

Infineon on the motherboard...

Clearly there -is- a TCPA chip in the developer kits, and other people seem to have shown that it is used...so I think this other article is questionable.
Well from that picture alone you cannot tell if that truely is a dev kit mother board, that all dev kits have the chip, or that the final MacIntels will have it.

Anyway if that is from a dev kit then the chip appears to be...

http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/79870/INFINEON/SLD9630TT.html

It is important to note that this chip can be used for capabilities beyond locking the OS to a system. It can be used as a solid basis for advanced security features that will benefit end users.
 

siliconjones

macrumors member
Feb 19, 2004
66
0
I don't like it.

If I buy a machine I want to be able to do what I want with it. Free will. Whether we will for good or for bad should be up to us entirely. If you produce a machine that takes away that free will, don't expect me to buy it. I think everyone should feel this way. If you don't you must be one of THOSE people. :D
 

Brother Michael

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2004
717
0
Wouldn't it be unconstitutional for a company to remotely access your personal computer that you paid with your money in your private home?

In a corporate/government enviroment I can see how this would be a huge plus and helpful security tool.
 

tex210

macrumors 6502
Jul 8, 2003
270
63
The only issue I have is that it seems very Newspeak.
Trusted Computing means the exact opposite. :(
It probably will happen.
Technology seems to be making that Orwellian world more real every day.
 

hayesk

macrumors 65816
May 20, 2003
1,422
46
siliconjones said:
If I buy a machine I want to be able to do what I want with it. Free will. Whether we will for good or for bad should be up to us entirely. If you produce a machine that takes away that free will, don't expect me to buy it. I think everyone should feel this way. If you don't you must be one of THOSE people. :D
Hey, the DRM on the machine won't stop you from doing what you want to do with it. Hack it up, strip it, resell it, whatever.

However, the software is a different story. You don't own the software - you own a license to use it according to their terms.
 

biohazard6969

macrumors 6502a
Feb 23, 2005
836
0
toronto canada
wait....i don't think i understand this....so this chip would prevent you from using p2p like limewire to pirate music, files, pictures, and video? would it prevent you from ripping dvd's and re-burning them? wat is it?
 

DTphonehome

macrumors 68000
Apr 4, 2003
1,767
2,245
NYC
Relax

People should just chill out. So Apple wants to implement hardware protection. What's wrong with that? Aren't they doing that with iTMS? The hallmark of Apple's DRM schemes is that they are perfectly reasonable to the overwhelming majority of users. MS's forced registration is very different, in that you constantly bump into restrictions even when doing normal, everyday stuff (like reinstalling windows :p ). I haven't yet had to contact Apple regarding copy protection that hinders a normal, law-abiding task.

Apple knows full well what its customers want, which is why they fight for liberal, yet secure DRM from content providers. I would MUCH rather Apple come up with a DRM scheme than pretty much anyone else.
 

skinlayers

macrumors newbie
Oct 29, 2002
5
0
Seattle, WA
Straight Dirt...

Gah! One new source reports that OS X doesn't use TPM and everyone goes ape. Time for the straight dirt:

The best source for OS X on x86 information is OSx86

Their forums are the best place for OS X on x86 updates!

Picture of the TPM chip

Function calls made to the TPM kernel extension

OSx86's full rebuttal

OSx on x86 Research

That being said, I doubt Apple will ever use the chip for DRM for software or media. Apple already has a perfectly good software DRM in the iTunes music store. If they were to require hardware DRM, then most current users of the iTunes Music Store would be left out in the cold.

skinlayers
 

siliconjones

macrumors member
Feb 19, 2004
66
0
hayesk said:
Hey, the DRM on the machine won't stop you from doing what you want to do with it. Hack it up, strip it, resell it, whatever.

However, the software is a different story. You don't own the software - you own a license to use it according to their terms.
Yes. But I would rather not give them a way in. Often what developers and content providers allow are at odds with your fair-use rights. If I would like to make a backup of a DVD Put the original away watch the backup, play air hockey with it, use it as a coaster and abuse it to an unusable state, then make a nice new fresh backup so I can keep my original in pristine condition. Do you think Warner Bros. would like me to do that or to have to buy the DVD time and time again.

Plus with software. I can only use one machine at a time. If I want to install Creative Suite on my Workstation, laptop, and home machine I should have that right as I can only effectively use one installation at a time. Apart from scripts and actions.
 

Rainfreak

macrumors newbie
Jul 29, 2005
7
0
USA
does/will OSX need this chip?

Does/will OSX use this implementation to ensure that you are installing OSX on a MAC ? I always thought that was about as far as they were taking this implementation. As far as tracking what you do on your computer that i think can be more efficiently achieved at a software level.. and if Apple did track the things I did on my machine, what difference will there be left between them and M$ ? :mad:
 

siliconjones

macrumors member
Feb 19, 2004
66
0
biohazard_6969 said:
wait....i don't think i understand this....so this chip would prevent you from using p2p like limewire to pirate music, files, pictures, and video? would it prevent you from ripping dvd's and re-burning them? wat is it?
Yes it is one and the same. It is a catalyst technology. Kind of like how PKI enables SSL.
 

Brother Michael

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2004
717
0
tex210 said:
The only issue I have is that it seems very Newspeak.
Trusted Computing means the exact opposite. :(
It probably will happen.
Technology seems to be making that Orwellian world more real every day.
Yeah right...1984 is a dead theory in my book, try Jennifer Government

DTphonehome and skinlayers: I am actually not freaking out here. My post seemed like it, I am actually just more curious. I just can't see how that is legal by the Constitution of the United States, and am wondering if someone has a reason that would make it legal.
 

alexf

macrumors 6502a
Apr 2, 2004
648
0
Planet Earth
tex210 said:
The only issue I have is that it seems very Newspeak.
Trusted Computing means the exact opposite. :(
It probably will happen.
Technology seems to be making that Orwellian world more real every day.
Yes... Very sad. Apple has been looking less attractive every day since the Intel announcement.

It's the end of an era.

:(
 

Brother Michael

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2004
717
0
alexf said:
Yes... Very sad. Apple has been looking less attractive every day since the Intel announcement.

It's the end of an era.

:(
In case you didn't notice, IBM is also on the Trusted Computing Boat according the original article posted.

The Intel switch means nothing.