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skinlayers said:
Function calls made to the TPM kernel extension

It looks like Rosette is basically using the hardware to do SHA and HMAC_SHA generation (secure hash). That would be faster then using a software algorithm, so not surprising. So any information on what Rosette is using SHA for?

In fact all the methods exposed by the TPM kernel extension appear to be basically exposing hardware versions of existing algorithms.
 
Brother Michael said:
Wouldn't it be unconstitutional for a company to remotely access your personal computer that you paid with your money in your private home?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Microsoft's upcoming "forced upgrades" and legitimacy-of-operating-system checks and other security measures going to be doing just that?
 
Whyren said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Microsoft's upcoming "forced upgrades" and legitimacy-of-operating-system checks and other security measures going to be doing just that?

Not sure...All of my copies of Windows are mine that I bought with my money. I just have it on auto-update and don't give it second thought.

The only thing I use my windows machine for is games and music storage/iTunes...and I hardly ever play games.
 
If Apple uses it to prevent OS X from being stolen, then so be it.

If it will be used for punitive DRM on media, then I won't buy that media. So far, that has not been Apple's trend. DRM was a necessary evil forced on iTunes by the RIAA, but Apple has kept the terms painless for honest users.

I'd rather there were no DRM or annoying copy protection in the world. Give a big "thanks" to the pirates who steal software and music, for bringing these issues into our lives.
 
As popular as the iPod

The iPod uses DRM TOO!!!11!1one11! That has obviously limited their popularity, so the Intel Mac is dooooooomed!

Seriously... anyone who DIDN'T forsee that Apple would lock their OS to their hardware via DRM had their head in the sand. This is about Apple having the flexibility to spend hardware dollars on software development... without the DRM, MacOS X's quality would either suffer dramatically, or Apple would go out of business.
 
Media content producers HAVE to earn the trust of consumers instead of fighting their needs and interests. This whole "trusted computing" deal does exactly the opposite. It shows how distrustful and controlling these industries are.

So if people buy a PERSONAL computer with a DRM chip and figure out how to disable it for legal or illegal they will be labeled outlaw criminals. If this were to happen it would end up in the supreme court faster than Sony Betamax and P2P.

As the ITMS shows a positive example of why this isn't needed I really hope Apple will not reverse their success.
 
nagromme said:
If Apple uses it to prevent OS X from being stolen, then so be it.

If it will be used for punitive DRM on media, then I won't buy that media. So far, that has not been Apple's trend. DRM was a necessary evil forced on iTunes by the RIAA, but Apple has kept the terms painless for honest users.

I'd rather there were no DRM or annoying copy protection in the world. Give a big "thanks" to the pirates who steal software and music, for bringing these issues into our lives.

I totally agree.

I pay money for my software.

What I didn't like was what the article was getting at with using a competitors software. We live in a free market and I don't appreciate being told that if I choose to use someone else's software I will be punished for it. If you are making an inferior product that is your own damn fault.

(btw, I don't support tarriff's on imports either)
 
I think the possibilities to restrict an individuals freedoms with this are extensive.

What will be a given is that hardware DRM WILL be required to access an increasing amount of Media in the future and that will be broadly right to ensure that the authors get their fair share of the pie.

Whilst Apple will grow increasingly larger and therefore beholden to more diverse groups I still trust them to make the right choices as to where this DRM should be implemented in their own Software.
I don't trust Microsoft and I certainly don't trust the conglomerates writing code for the traditional x86 platform.

What really matters for me and hopefully Apple is that we will be watching very closely as the future develops for any inappropriate errosions of our personal freedoms.

I'm off now to explore "Jennifer Government"

WS
 
If it helps catch identity thieves and ebay scammers, I'm all for it. But I agree that the big brother aspect is scary.
 
quigleybc said:
At the risk of sounding like a nube moron, could someone briefly write what this is all about in simple terms.

Starting with, what is DRM? PKI, SSl? :eek:

Three simple letters... F U D (and some tin foil hats) :D
 
Nooooo!

You guys don't understand, this is much worse than you think; It will not only be able to detect unauthorized software or music, but all kinds of documents, files etc. It can be used to delete this according to a set of "rules" it downloads, or lock a document due to controversy etc-

If countries like China got hold of this they could further oppress their citizens and controll what they say, or do.

Do you like your mac to register all you do and say into a database?
One of the reasons why Microsofts spending so much money on this is so they can take controll of their users and make them stay lojal to their platform and software. Free software like OpenOffice will not be able to read microsoft documents or will have to get them certified digitally. your options will in any case be limited, and small companys will likely to vanish...

Any apple computer with this sort of right-braking hardware on it will not pass though my doorstep thats for sure..
 
Why hardware and software DRM is flawed...

... people make mistakes. We don't hard-wire our applications because it's nice to be able to roll out upgrades and fixes without requiring users to buy entire new machines.

People will find the cracks in hardware DRM and exploit them if they want. Similarly for software. But, with software-based DRM, you can send a fix out when the DRM gets busted.

I don't think hardware DRM makes much sense, except for the likes of intel who can use it in their marketing to encourage people to use their chips.
 
It's a pre-release developer's computer - just like MS shipped PowerMacs to developers for developing games for their upcoming X-Box. Think the innards of the X-Box will look anything like the innards of that PM development computer?

Sure, Apple knows how they are going to keep OS X off of PCs. They have been running OS X on Intel based PCs for five years. They know where they are going and Intel is going to provide all of the support necessary for them to get there. Just don't assume that the MB pics have any relationship to the products that ship. I have a feeling that what ever steps they take will be transparent to the user and it may already be in Tiger - especially if Apple starts delivering Mactels before 10.5 is shipped.
 
quigleybc said:
At the risk of sounding like a nube moron, could someone briefly write what this is all about in simple terms.

Starting with, what is DRM? PKI, SSl? :eek:

Don't feel like a newb. I don't know what most of those mean either! ;)

But to start out, DRM means "Digital Rights Management"

Cheers
 
The boards in the Developer Macs are STANDARD INTEL BOARDS!
They just custom fit the ports. Apple and Intel didn't bother designing an entire new motherboard for a rental, throwaway style computer.
 
robertseadog said:
If countries like China got hold of this they could further oppress their citizens and controll what they say, or do.

OMG!

Just think if China can build their own computers, using their own operating systems, their own CPUs, etc. !!!

FYI... they do already.
 
Don't get me wrong.

I don't want you to be able to OS X on a dell or any ROTM PC. But we all know that Apple is interested in distributing video from ITMS. Hopefully they will just use the same DRM infrastructure they already have. But I would not trust ANY company able to control DRM at the hardware level to do the right thing as far as consumer rights are concerned.

In addition what would stop Apple from keeping you from installing Linux on their machines if apple money maker swung over to software from hardware.

I think if all this came to fruition. I would switch to Linux for my personal computer needs. In order to stay truly open. I would still design on a Mac though and be nostalgic for the days of old.
 
A common mis-conception

Brother Michael said:
Wouldn't it be unconstitutional for a company to remotely access your personal computer that you paid with your money in your private home?
In a word, no, but not for the reason you may think.

The only thing the constitution protects you from is federal and state government. As a private individual acting in his/her own capacity or on behalf of a corporation, a person simply can't violate your "constitutional rights."

Now, would it be an invasion of privacy? I'd say yes.
Totally inappropriate? Probably.
A violation of state or federal law? Maybe.

But unconstitutional? No.

(A bit o/t, but edumacational nonetheless!)
 
quigleybc said:
Thanks that really clears it up for me :rolleyes:

The point is all you see going on here is speculation and a few from the tin foil hat crowd. The fact is we don't know what Apple's plans are in this space.

Many good, useful, beneficial uses of hardware level secure components for the average user exists for one.

PKI (public key infrastructure), many good uses of such capabilities that are critically important to personal data protection, digital signatures, etc.

DRM (see FairPlay as an example)

Trusted Computing many good uses of such capabilities.
 
quigleybc said:
At the risk of sounding like a nube moron, could someone briefly write what this is all about in simple terms.

Starting with, what is DRM? PKI, SSl? :eek:

DRM = Digital Rights Management. DRM allows a 'content provider' (a recording artist's label, movie company, software developer) to have control over who is allowed to do what with their software/music/movie, etc. The iTunes Music Store impliments this by only allowing you to use a song you've purchased on up to 5 registered machine, and you can only burn the same play list 10 times (or something like this). This gets consumer rights advocates, hackers and geeks up in arms because it allows other entities (like Sony, Universal, Microsoft, etc) to control what you are allowed to do on your computer. IF someone can tell your computer NOT to play an MP3 file, it would be relitively simple to use the same technology to block access to information (websites) that contain information they don't want you to have. See how this is turning Big Brother-ish (reference 1984).

PKI = Public Key Infustructure. To use a simple analogy, imagine you have a lock, and a key broken in 1/2. You can lock the lock with one half of the key, but you need both halves to unlock it. You can send 1/2 the key to a friend, and they can lock (encrypt) information with it. Even if someone intercepts the 1/2 of the key you sent them and the locked box coming back, they can't figure out what the other 1/2 of the key should be.

One problem is cryptography is how do you transmit an encrypted message over an insecure infrastructre (i.e. The Internet) and be sure that only the person you want to can read the information. With out getting too technical, PKI uses the fact that there are no shortcuts for certain kinds of mathimatical operations, mainly factoring (figuring out the square-root of a number). It is much easier to multiply a number by itself then to do the reverse (figure out what number multiplied by itself will give you a certain number). With PKI you generate two VERY large numbers (called the public and private keys) that essentially plug into the PKI software. With the public key, you can encrypt a message, but you need both keys in order to decrypt a message. In theory someone could just try every possible combination (known as 'brute forcing'), bu8t the numbers are so large that it would take a very very VERY long time (think thousands of years or more depending on the size of the keys) with modern computers.

SSL = Secure Socket Layer. SSL is probably the most common implementation of PKI. Its software written to use PKI to encrypt and decrypt data on a computer, specifically for use on insecure networks like the Internet. You probably use SSL almost daily without realizing it. If you go online to check your bank account, you're using SSL. When you visit your bank's website, your webbrowser and their server each generate a pair of these keys (for two-way encryption). You then transmit your public key to the bank server, and they transmit their public key to you. Then, anything you send to them (like login information) in encrypted by your webbrowser, and only they have the private key to decrypt it. This way, you and your bank can communicate securely, even if every single transmittion between the two of you is intercepted.

Now, how does all of this relate to Apple, OS X, and TPM? PKI works fine for encrypting data, but it does nothing to verify that the sender of the encrypted data is who they say they are. Someone could intercept your public key, encrypt data with it, and pretend to be someone else. Luckily (or unluckily depending on your POV) PKI can be used in a different fashion to verify a sender's authenticity. You can take your private key, and digitally 'sign' a piece of data. Then the recipient can take the 'signed' document and verify it with your public key. This how Microsoft prevents people from playing burned games and non-retail software on an Xbox. The Xbox contains the public key, and a retail Microsoft game is signed with their private key. On boot, the Xbox checks the game signature with the public key it has embedded in it. Apple is doing something very similar (though set up in reverse) with OS X on Intel. As far as I can tell Rosseta (which is require to run much of the un-ported GUI) checks the signature stored in the TPM chip to verify that the hardware was made by Apple. If it doesn't find a valid signature then it refuses to run. The Xbox hardware verifies the authenticity of the software, where as on Mac OS X for Intel, the software verifies the authenticity of the hardware.

Any questions? ;)

skinlayers
 
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