Apple Interested in Developing ARM-Based Mac Processors and iPhone Modems in House

[firewood]

Another considerable difference is that almost every 3rd party company writing s/w for macs was writing also for Intel anyway.

That was half decade or more ago. Now. almost every 3rd party macOS software company today is also developing for iOS or Android apps (growing multi-billion dollar businesses), which run on ARM processors. Most current macOS apps are developed using Xcode or LLVM, which can easily target ether x86-64 or arm64 ISAs. So it's only a small percentage of potential MacBook buyers who require running ancient legacy PC applications only available as x86 code.

 

[antonis]

When you write software you generally are not “writing for intel.” Most software can simply be recompiled by flipping a switch. When was the last time anyone had to worry about the underlying ISA? SUre, there are exceptions, but most software would be easy to port.

It's not as easy as it sounds. There are architectural differences that not every other company will rush to invest the time and effort to bridge. There are important applications that will take time to switch (if ever) and will get directly affected by that (e.g. vmware).

What will apple achieve with this, will be to alienate themselves even more.

 

[chucker23n1]

It has recently been updated with an newer cpu, so... it is not dead yet.
They are keeping it around for a reason.

It has been updated in June 2017 with a Q1 2015 CPU. That tells you everything there is to know about the update.

They're keeping it around because they can't/won't offer their other small laptops at comparable prices just yet.

They could kill the 13,3 inch and release a new 11 inch MacBook Air , with a better screen, which has the same dpi as an iPad Pro , for the same price as 12.9 iPad Pro. But with a keyboard/trackpad and without a touchscreen, with an arm based macOS. For app developers it should be a breeze to convert ipad apps to this new MacBook Air, to work with a trackpad/keyboard.

The product you're asking for is called the MacBook. The only thing missing is the price tag.

Developers would be able to use the same source code, and just add a macOS gui profile.

This idea that macOS is just a "gui profile" is quite pernicious. Apple chose not to merge iOS and macOS by design, not as an accident.

 

[firewood]

This idea that macOS is just a "gui profile" is quite pernicious. Apple chose not to merge iOS and macOS by design, not as an accident.

And yet, I know a few iOS/macOS developers who have done exactly that, and have apps in both the iOS and Mac App stores that share the majority of their source code, except for the UX (storyboards, views, and UI(NS) controllers).

 

[chucker23n1]

And yet, I know a few iOS/macOS developers who have done exactly that, and have apps in both the iOS and Mac App stores that share the majority of their source code, except for the UX (storyboards, views, and UI(NS) controllers).

I've highlighted the relevant part.

 

[Morky]

problem for big bloatware like Adobe CS, or maybe products that need to tinker with bare metal. However, a lot of modern software is just gonna be - theoretically - 'flip the switch' and recompile. Probably not quite so simple in reality but still a far cry from the major rewrite that may have been needed in the past.

I don't even think it's that big a deal for Adobe now since Apple forced them off Carbon to Objective-C by killing planned support for 64-bit Carbon. It was a huge effort by Adobe to re-code their entire suite, but they should be much more squarely in the 'flip the switch' category than they once were.

 

[firewood]

I've highlighted the relevant part.

And the relevant part is small enough that many developers do both, and thus ship both x86/desktop and arm64/mobile apps. Criss-crossing this to do a hypothetical arm64/desktop would not be rocket-science. MS even did it with some of their massive productivity applications.

 

[ValO]

It has been updated in June 2017 with a Q1 2015 CPU. That tells you everything there is to know about the update.

They're keeping it around because they can't/won't offer their other small laptops at comparable prices just yet.



The product you're asking for is called the MacBook. The only thing missing is the price tag.



This idea that macOS is just a "gui profile" is quite pernicious. Apple chose not to merge iOS and macOS by design, not as an accident.

One is optimized for touch, the other for mouse/trackpad and keyboard operation.

To assume apple can’ t or won’ t create the same experience on an arm based macos as x-86 macos, now that arm socs have become more powerfull , is a very conservative assumption.

If there will be an arm based macos, it shouldn’ t be too difficult for developers to add code and change layout for mouse/trackpad an keyboard operation for existing ipad apps.

You make it sound like the macos on arm should be totally different from ios.

The core of both ios and macos could be the same with extensions for keyboard , trackpad/mouse support, filemanagement and gui for the arm based macos.

 

[chucker23n1]

One is optimized for touch, the other for mouse/trackpad and keyboard operation.

To assume apple can’ t or won’ t create the same experience on an arm based macos as x-86 macos, now that arm socs have become more powerfull , is a very conservative assumption.

It is, but Apple is very conservative with UI design.

You make it sound like the macos on arm should be totally different from ios.

Not I do. Apple does.

The core of both ios and macos could be the same with extensions for keyboard , trackpad/mouse support, filemanagement and gui for the arm based macos.

This is already the case. iOS is a different architecture and a different UI framework, but other than that, the two share a lot of components on many layers. Both have the XNU kernel, both use low-level frameworks such as AVFoundation and Metal, and both use high-level applications such as Photos that build on them.

But the UI paradigm is deliberately a different one. This is a stark contrast to the Windows 8 path, and that's not an accident.

 

[albebaubles]

And yet, I know a few iOS/macOS developers who have done exactly that, and have apps in both the iOS and Mac App stores that share the majority of their source code, except for the UX (storyboards, views, and UI(NS) controllers).

Yup my frameworks compile for ios/watchos/tvos and Mac OS.

 

[dippnerd]

But the UI paradigm is deliberately a different one. This is a stark contrast to the Windows 8 path, and that's not an accident.

TouchBar is a great example of this (even if it's been poorly received). Rather than jump head-first into full-blown touch screens, they're very slowly integrating touch beyond just the trackpad. It's mostly a gimmick now, but I suspect it's just one piece of a bigger unseen picture to bridge the gaps between both UI paradigms. Perhaps that's where we'll see the ARM chip come into play, alongside an Intel one but to help drive more touch functionality than what the T1 offers now.

 

[iamthedudeman]

I have said this for years and every one goes no no intel this intel that processor change this processor that. I go look apple is going to start the process of having the entire OS written in a higher level language or a modern level C so that they can combine it and all the built in libraries over to ARM. Then it is a simple re-compile for most not all applications to join the ARM OS X train. This is where apple is going. There is no reason to update the Dock or Finder ETC with a total re-write to a new language otherwise. They are moving the ball slowly and in clear view to ARM. The first mechanical cooled ARM chip is now in the ATV. They are getting ready to see how far they can push the Atv it is a low risk product with low sales currently. They can latter on push it hard and if they fail they have good understanding of thermal loads in the wild. They are going to make a MacBook A series chip. This is going to happen when is the only question I have left. They have several sub-systems left to migrate on the UI side of the house. They also need to start to get developers into the idea that the apps need to be universal again. This push will come with a new heavy push for the App Store. This why the universal binaries are handled on the back end away from the user. The arm user will not know they are using arm unless they look at the specs. This is where they want to go. So you can write it one time and have it run multi thread monster on the Mac Pro or multi thread mini on the ARM in the MacBook scales perfectly and is universal. This is where apple has pointed the ship. Intel has nothing on the road map at the sub 15 watt chip size that punches. I know now I will get the people who go but arm is not intel the benchmarks don't compare etc etc. This is going to happen. So strap in for the next decade cause it will be ARM and it will be universal binaries and it will all feel like a throw back to the early 2k.

Isn’t iOS and mac OS Basically the same? The only difference being the GUI. When the iphone was announced in 2007 steve said it ran OSX. I thought this was old news.
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Arrghh, No! Not ANOTHER freaking architecture change.

Not to mention, ARM processors don't even come close to the performance of Intel. I would really hate it for Apple to gimp the performance of the Mac just to not depend on Intel anymore.

How about going dual supplier? Maybe go AMD for desktops (iMacs) and Intel for notebooks. You can keep the same architecture and performance and not be tied to one company.

It would be extremely frustrating if Apple went ARM for Macs. It would be a huge negative for the platform.

The bench marks tell a different story. Even if you leave out geekbench. A A11 chip with the thermal constraints of a iphone would have no trouble on a mac. And clock for clock out perform the intel chips.

 

[chucker23n1]

A A11 chip with the thermal constraints of a iphone would have no trouble on a mac. And clock for clock out perform the intel chips.

At low wattage, yes. There's no evidence Ax would scale well to the chips of a 15-inch MBP, or an iMac.

 

[firewood]

At low wattage, yes. There's no evidence Ax would scale well to the chips of a 15-inch MBP, or an iMac.

Apple processor design team employs a bunch of engineers who have designed chips for much higher thermal envelope systems than an iPhone or notebook. It would be easier for them to scale a micro-architecture up for a high performance process and package than the redesign work they did to squeeze processor cores into the Apple Watch power envelope. No evidence they've actually done this, but even less evidence they couldn't if management pushed to GO button.

 

[Tech198]

Funny how all of a sudden benchmarks are important.

I thought benchmarks were always important.

It has recently been updated with an newer cpu, so... it is not dead yet.

I keep hearing the MBA is dead because u now have a Retina just as thin, but hier price/better specs..

But i guess u keep a budget laptop around for the same reason you keep a budget phone (iPhone SE) round. Nothing more. Why would u wanna upgrade a a non-popular Mac to ARM ? Their'd be little reason for that. Back in the day when everyone bought the Air, that is different, but not now when most people are buying the 12-inch MBP. I guess MBA will still get small upgrades, but nothing as big of a jump we see elsewhere.

 

[floral]

Hm. This turned out to be true.