So you're saying this is NO big deal at all and that there's no reason to report it and that people don't need to worry about educating themselves since it's such a rarity?
Am I reading your dismissive attitude correctly?
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Apple Investigating 'MACDefender' Malware, Support Staff Barred From Assisting Customers
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So you're saying this is NO big deal at all and that there's no reason to report it and that people don't need to worry about educating themselves since it's such a rarity?
Am I reading your dismissive attitude correctly?
There are a few reasons why I do.
- People keep asking the same questions, which are answered by that link.
- People keep making the same false statements, which are refuted by that link.
- People are reluctant to read and learn, so if they hear about that link enough times, perhaps they'll finally decide to read it.
- The greatest weapon against current Mac malware is an informed and careful user.
- Rather than insult the uninformed, I'd prefer to educate them.
Actually, they say:
From http://www.apple.com/macosx/security/
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/an-applecare-support-rep-talks-mac-malware-is-getting-worse/3342?pg=2
EB: Taking a little risk there? i assume your calls are randomly monitored and you could get a warning if someone decides to be a hardass.
AC: Indeed we are monitored, but I cant personally justify telling a father whos freaking out about what his 6-year-old daughter just saw that I cant help him out. Our on-floor managers and QA guys do their best to let it slide, but if they start getting pushed from higher-ups, we could face write-ups and even termination.
Not really. There was a time when the average time to infection for a fresh Windows box was under 8 minutes. The time required to download the updates that would protect the box was over half an hour. It's certainly gotten better, but sometimes that thing "the user has control of" isn't anything that's actually something the user controls *directly*. You could protect those windows boxes by not connecting to the internet, but that still left the box unprotected against those threats if you ever did connect, and you also dealt with long-fixed bugs still being present on the box.
Now you're splitting hairs. Seriously? Talk about semantics. You and I might be able to discern - but many wouldn't discern a PC virus from any other.
Yes - it's true - a PC virus won't infect a Mac. However.
Most computers these says are called a PC. Personal Computer. Amongst laymen - many when asked if they own a PC would say "Yes - I have an iMac"
They are being "sneaking" via omission. They aren't finishing the thought - deliberately.
Macs don't get PC viruses ..... (but they can get trojans and other malware which could wreak havoc on you)
Talk about semantics and word play!
Very true. There are websites that are already infected with a virus and will infect Windows computers simply by visiting the site. No other interaction is needed by the visitor other than visiting the page.
Education is always useful, but not always necessary.
I've been dismissive of this for years. Because there's never been a cause to feel otherwise.
Show me the ocean of malware that infects masses of Mac users (like they've been promising for a decade now) and I'll gladly concede - but not without reminding you that we've had a ten-year run of surfing the net with impunity.
Otherwise, a visit from old Uncle malware you only see every 2 or 3 years just doesn't cut it.
if you want education that is immediately useful, the best piece of advice anyone can give is to forego the hassle and need for education of this type in the first place, and simply avoid using Windows whenever possible.
Apple is very clear, if you bother to read the very next sentence:
They make it quite clear that there is other malware.
Yeah - this document is probably faked too, right?
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/appl...-remove-malware/3362?tag=content;feature-roto
I bought my parents a Mac a long time ago now as an alternative to the nightmare of PC configuration. They're the most likely demographic to encounter issues like this, because they don't have the benefit of a technological upbringing like we do. So I'd call you ignorant rather than cold.
It was likely their policy all along. Recent news likely prompted Apple to emphasize policy that might have been unclear or little-used.
In and of itself the document proves nothing out of the ordinary.
You're just full of contradictions, aren't you? Do you ever go back and read what you write? Wow.
"And its built-in defenses help keep you safe" - really? You don't think that's creative writing? If that was true - and if people could trust that statement - this trojan wouldn't be possible.
Again - the more you spit out marketing speak to consumers, the less you can blame them for assuming their system was invincible against an attack of ANY kind.
This still makes it very apparent that Macs are vulnerable when users aren't smart enough to know how to use their machine. I kind of thought that by now people would have a better idea what they're doing on a computer besides facebook and youtube.
This does do one thing though, show Apple that they need to make Lion a very secure OS. From what I've heard from people with early releases, Lion is rewritten for added security. I really pray that this is true. Apple has enjoyed a fair share of "security from obscurity" for about as long as it could.
I understand the positives and negatives from locking down a product. iPad 2 is a great example.
This does do one thing though, show Apple that they need to make Lion a very secure OS. From what I've heard from people with early releases, Lion is rewritten for added security. I really pray that this is true. Apple has enjoyed a fair share of "security from obscurity" for about as long as it could.
I understand the positives and negatives from locking down a product. iPad 2 is a great example.
This trojan is only possible due to the gullibility, ignorance, carelessness or foolishness of the user. No OS can protect a user from their own actions. Mac OS X indeed DOES have built-in protection, such as sandboxing, which adds to its security, if you take the time to read that whole link. Apple never claimed that Macs were invincible, flawless, immune, impervious, etc. You simply cannot intelligently blame Apple for the actions of Mac users. On that same page, Apple says:
So now you want to hold Apple responsible for users disregarding what they recommend?
This is true of every OS ever written.
its really too bad
Apple should indeed help people remove this from their systems. There is a level of user out there that will never read EULA's, TOS's and general instructions because they are buying a product that has a reputation for being fairly closed. Sometimes a 60 year old lady with no real computer savvy other than looking for crochet patterns and playing puzzle games just will not know the difference between a real apple warning and a fake one set there as a pop up just to dupe the less experienced. And the pop up blocker on safari and most browsers is useless as *****. Fortunately my relatives have me to help them so long as they promise to never use a windows machine.
Apple should indeed help people remove this from their systems. There is a level of user out there that will never read EULA's, TOS's and general instructions because they are buying a product that has a reputation for being fairly closed. Sometimes a 60 year old lady with no real computer savvy other than looking for crochet patterns and playing puzzle games just will not know the difference between a real apple warning and a fake one set there as a pop up just to dupe the less experienced. And the pop up blocker on safari and most browsers is useless as *****. Fortunately my relatives have me to help them so long as they promise to never use a windows machine.
I have to agree that the Apple advertising represents a degree of sophistry.
But, Windows partakes in the same type of misinformation in advertising. For example, the Windows sandbox is referred to "Mandatory Integrity Control" but it is only an extension of DAC. Both DAC and MIC are disabled if UAC is disabled.
In relation to sandboxes, discretionary = functions via inherited permissions and mandatory = functions independently of inherited permissions. A true mandatory sandbox is the same regardless of the settings of DAC and the account type being used by the user.
How can something be both discretionary and mandatory at the same time? Obviously, MIC is not mandatory given that it functions via inherited permissions and can be disabled.
Microsoft marketed the feature as mandatory to make it appear that the OS has a mandatory sandboxing system given that OS X and most popular Linux distros have a true mandatory sandbox feature.
Also, Microsoft doesn't go out of there way to tell users all the security benefits of Windows 7 go out the Window if UAC is disabled or it's restrictions are reduced.
We agree on the same issue. My only addition is that Apple doesn't serve it's users well by perpetuating the "myth" that Macs don't get viruses.
You can split hairs all you want on the fact they say PC. Or that they have disclaimers on various web pages.
But their ad campaigns, store employees and, as you can see on this thread - "loyalists" all IMPLY that Mac's are completely immune.
So I restate - education is important. For ANYONE using a computer. Mac and PC alike.
There are no OSX viruses either, so PC isn't even needed. They could safely say Mac OS X does not get viruses. They included PC so that the typical user wouldn't be mislead. To a typical user, PC=Windows and virus=all malware. So what they said is that Mac OSX doesn't get Windows malware. How is that misleading? Then in their following sentence they note that there are still some malware threats out there, but they have built in tools to help protect you. Once again, how is that misleading?
In short, I don't see how "Mac OS X doesnt get PC viruses. And its built-in defenses help keep you safe from other malware without the hassle of constant alerts and sweeps." is misleading at all.
You also say Apple provides no education for its users; try scrolling down that page a little:
"The Mac is designed with built-in technologies that provide protection against malicious software and security threats right out of the box. However, since no system can be 100 percent immune from every threat, antivirus software may offer additional protection."
"Here are some other ways to help keep your information as safe as possible:
Download files only from known and trusted websites.
Use FileVault to encrypt your most important documents.
Control access to your Mac by locking your screen after a period of inactivity.
Securely delete outdated sensitive files with the Secure Empty Trash command."
Ok. But I don't think there's a windows user out there that think THEY are invincible to getting a virus/etc. Not so much with the Apple users. That's a pretty important distinction...
I think the opposite. "Switchers" have been exposed to this for years and are trained to avoid these.
They don't. They don't perpetuate any such myth. And they don't get viruses.
That's not splitting hairs. NEVER has Apple said Macs don't get viruses or Macs don't have any malware threats or Macs are impervious or immune to malware or security threats.
Look - we can go around in circles all day. I'm in marketing and PR - so I think I'm due a little credit here when I say that if you perpetuate information in 90 percent of your marketing, advertising and PR and in 10 percent offer the "real story" - you're being a bit deceptive. I'm not saying Apple is evil or doing anything that other companies are not. But we're not talking about other issues. We're talking about MacDefender and how some posters on here want to blame the end user for being "stupid"
My point is - the average user isn't necc. stupid. The average user was led to believe that they were "safe." based on Apple's messaging. Right or wrong - it really would be hard to argue that the average user would think otherwise.
I see, but I missed it hardly because I was skimming the article, this was in a separete related article from the one linked in the Macrumors post
I think everyone got the idea even though I used the popularized term "rocket scientist."
They don't perpetuate this myth?
Ok - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQb_Q8WRL_g
Explain that one....