Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Apple iOS 8.0.1 Issues Linked to Maps Debacle, Same Manager Oversaw Both Projects

donnaw said:
Actually, as an outsider, I would say Apple isn't collaborative enough. Hence the inability of the testers to have the capability of testing on latest hardware. And the reported issues of one group testing specific things, issuing an ok and another group noticing breaks, yet it seems theses groups do not talk to each other.

I worked in software dev for 25+ years. It's essential that all groups actually TALK TO EACH OTHER. I think Apple's penchant for secrecy is reaching up to bite them in the a$$. Secrecy if great for generating marketing hype. But not for developing, testing, and actually rolling out quality software. As Apple grows this 'secrecy' environment is beginning to show its flaws. Frankly I'm surprised it has taken so long for this to happen.

That being said, I don't know if this guy's head should roll. Depends on whether he tried to change the culture, whether he was too complacent, on whether, his team is actually functional... Lots of 'what if's'. But he may well be incompent too. hopedully Apple will make the right decision. Fire him if he is incopentant, listen to him if he tried to change things.
Click to expand...

Again another good post with great real world insight. Secrecy has been a cornerstone of Apple judging by the teams that worked on the special projects and they managed to ship. It's like you're saying, a deeper issue. Hopefully the ship will get righted very soon. It's hard to defend a company with high standards that lets several lower level mistakes get released to the public in short succession. Again great discussion. Thank you.
 
How do we know theres not an internal coo? internal sabotage? maybe there is more to this. Or maybe its just a really good premise for a made up movie :D
 
C DM said:
So you are advocating censorship? Really?
Click to expand...

No, I am advocating the fact that libel may insue in this case, as there is absolutely no proof, nor suspect that the guy is the same and that name is actually his name. No need to ruin a name/family on a rumor like that.
 
Do Apple's pirates have to walk the plank over things like this?

I said somewhere that the lousy release quality of Apple's software is indicative of a manager that has hit his Peter Principle Plateau and is in need of a downgrade. If his position change was not a lateral move, it seems like he may have been two levels too high. (If he is not able to do the job, I wish him well, but he has to move or be moved.)
 
Come on people this is NOT a big deal. Apple pulled the update within minutes. And fixed it within 24hrs. For comparison, I emailed Microsoft with an Excel bug eight years ago, it took them 3 weeks to admit it was a bug after denying it strenuously, and it's still in the current version of Excel. 8 years later. It will be there for eternity! So a bunch of early-bird Aussie whingers couldn't watch the golf over wifi on their dingo farms for a few days. Do I care? No! But seriously though, Josh, you might consider pulling that pic of you "sampling the local tobacco" on your personal website!! Not the kind of image you'll be wanting to put over given the current heated atmosphere. A little less of the "wake and bake" attitude and a little more of the "nobody's going to the pub until this is finished, even if it means we've got to sit here all night" will be appreciated by all, especially the folks down under. And by the way, people, STOP BENDING YOUR PHONES! What are you, five years old?
 
Last edited:
toptekjon said:
Seriously. I'm sure Macrumors won't be the only one, but why ruin this guys reputation/career in such a public way? He's human! Humans make mistakes! There's no way to even know if this actually one mans fault. How could he possibly test millions of phones being used in different ways?

People act like the guy is running the country. It's just a damn phone, give the guy a break! (I love my phone too, but come on)
Click to expand...

That's totally misguided thinking. The guy should not have been retained once he again made a similar mistake (Maps and then this latest problem). After all, he was IN CHARGE of the division / process, and a SINGLE report from someone testing the software should have gone to him, and a fix should have been authorized BEFORE it was released to the public.

Shoulda - coulda - woulda
 
Sir Jonathon Ive is the guy in charge of software after he got what's his face fired, but nobody dare say anything bad about the great sir Jonathon because he's infallible. Unfortunately the blame rests firmly on his shoulders for the ios 8.01 and 8.02 updates as well as the shoddily engineered iphones that bend. It's no surprise they found a scapegoat, remember when everyone complained about the ugly icons in ios7 and Ive had the audacity to blame marketing.
 
milhouse994 said:
This makes me very uncomfortable. The fact that this guy's name was leaked to the media suggests that someone inside Apple has an axe to grind. This man is about to be convicted in the court of public opinion with no evidence to suggest he has done a thing wrong, other than perhaps be in wrong place twice.
Click to expand...

Happens all the time. Just watch your local and national news.
 
Roller said:
Trouble is, you don't have this straight, since nobody outside of Apple knows what really happened. The Bloomberg article quoted "people familiar with Apple’s management structure." Maybe those people had a grade against this employee or weren't as "familiar" as they made themselves out to be.

My point is that news organizations should be extremely careful before they name names, especially in this day and age where every story, especially negative ones like this, spread virally across the Internet. And once the bad genie's out of the bottle, as it were, it's almost impossible to put it back in. News organizations have a greater responsibility than ever to fact check, but that doesn't seem to happen. A post a few weeks ago on computerworld.com actually pointed back to a forum post here on MacRumors!

MacRumors is in an odd position, since some of what it reports is legitimate, verified news, but much is speculation with little basis in fact. That's OK, as long as the sources for any article are shown, so readers can decide for themselves. But the lines between the two are blurrier than ever.
Click to expand...

I agree, mostly. But MR is not a real reporting site. They mainly "report" what others previously reported, so in reality, they are little more than an unfiltered regurgitation site, often with their own spin added. This is a dangerous way of doing business, and a price can be paid. Many times I've called MR out on outright errors, misquoting, and even plagiarizing their "sources," all of this apart from the daily issues of poor grammar and weak writing. Most of these mistakes are not corrected, so the loud-and-clear message from MR to us is "we don't care."

What a shame. I've been hanging out here for 12 years now and during that time haven't seen MR take any interest in constructive criticism. It's ironic, in a way, since this story is about Apple's response to making a mistake. They admit it, apologize, fix it, and move on. Why don't you consider that model, MR?
 
selfsilent said:
This guy made 2 mistakes in 2 years, that's not a bad record, give him a break.
Click to expand...

They are more than mistakes, they are two huge serious errors that inconvenienced masses of people and caused severe damage to the companies reputation. It can't be just one person that carries the can for this mess though, there's a whole chain of people that have seriously messed up here.

Should they be fired? At my company (a fortune 500) they would have been immediately dismissed and escorted off the premises as soon as the error came to light.
 
The more egregious violation is to read the article, and then jump down to post without reading anything that has already been posted. Granted it happens here all the time, but when I get to page 9 and see the exact same post that has been posted a dozen times already it pisses me off.

Don't be lazy people, if you get to the party late, do us all the courtesy of figuring out what has already been said. Sheesh.
 
If IOS bugs are not being picked up on testing because the engineers can't properly test new iphones due to secrecy/lack of time between finalised designs and release dates etc, then simply delay new IOS updates by a week or two after the release of new iPhones.
 
IJ Reilly said:
I agree, mostly. But MR is not a real reporting site. They mainly "report" what others previously reported, so in reality, they are little more than an unfiltered regurgitation site, often with their own spin added. This is a dangerous way of doing business, and a price can be paid. Many times I've called MR out on outright errors, misquoting, and even plagiarizing their "sources," all of this apart from the daily issues of poor grammar and weak writing. Most of these mistakes are not corrected, so the loud-and-clear message from MR to us is "we don't care."

What a shame. I've been hanging out here for 12 years now and during that time haven't seen MR take any interest in constructive criticism. It's ironic, in a way, since this story is about Apple's response to making a mistake. They admit it, apologize, fix it, and move on. Why don't you consider that model, MR?
Click to expand...
That's not what this site is about. You might want something different from it, but that doesn't meant that it should be that or thst it's somehow bad for not being that. If you come to a fast food place and then you are upset because your burgers don't live up to the standard of fancy restaurant burgers is that somehow the fault of the fast food place thst is doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing?

----------
adampk17 said:
Honestly, someone at MacRumors should be fired for posting names and links.

Good god, that's in unimaginable bad taste.
Click to expand...
Name has been removed and links are to other reputable news reports that are out there. If there are issues seems like they should be aimed at those original reports.

----------
macgabe said:
Come on people this is NOT a big deal. Apple pulled the update within minutes. And fixed it within 24hrs. For comparison, I emailed Microsoft with an Excel bug eight years ago, it took them 3 weeks to admit it was a bug after denying it strenuously, and it's still in the current version of Excel. 8 years later. It will be there for eternity! So a bunch of early-bird Aussie whingers couldn't watch the golf over wifi on their dingo farms for a few days. Do I care? No! But seriously though, Josh, you might consider pulling that pic of you "sampling the local tobacco" on your personal website!! Not the kind of image you'll be wanting to put over given the current heated atmosphere. A little less of the "wake and bake" attitude and a little more of the "nobody's going to the pub until this is finished, even if it means we've got to sit here all night" will be appreciated by all, especially the folks down under. And by the way, people, STOP BENDING YOUR PHONES! What are you, five years old?
Click to expand...
1.5 hours is not exactly minutes, and 31 hours is not 24. If simple things like thst are already being pointlessly distorted in the very first sentence that pretty much undermines anything else that follows.

----------
yaxomoxay said:
No, I am advocating the fact that libel may insue in this case, as there is absolutely no proof, nor suspect that the guy is the same and that name is actually his name. No need to ruin a name/family on a rumor like that.
Click to expand...
Hoe exactly would that be covered in all kinds of comments made by essentialky anonymous posters all over the internet? There's all kinds of drivel posted every second all over by random commenters and posters, how would that be regulated again?
 
C DM said:
That's not what this site is about. You might want something different from it, but that doesn't meant that it should be that or thst it's somehow bad for not being that. If you come to a fast food place and then you are upset because your burgers don't live up to the standard of fancy restaurant burgers is that somehow the fault of the fast food place thst is doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you are saying this site is actually "about," but no matter, there's no excuse for a lack of editorial judgment, misquoting, or plagiarism. To apply your analogy: whether the food is fast or slow, it should not make you sick to your stomach.
 
C DM said:
----------

Name has been removed and links are to other reputable news reports that are out there. If there are issues seems like they should be aimed at those original reports.
Click to expand...

Removing the names isn't sufficient. They never should have been there in the first place. Apple took down iOS 8.01 afterwards too, but aren't a ton of people pissed about that, too?

MR is responsible for what is on their own site. It's their own choice, and responsibility, if they parrot something that shouldn't have been posted in the first place.
 
adampk17 said:
Removing the names isn't sufficient. They never should have been there in the first place. Apple took down iOS 8.01 afterwards too, but aren't a ton of people pissed about that, too?

MR is responsible for what is on their own site. It's their own choice, and responsibility, if they parrot something that shouldn't have been posted in the first place.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't have been there, yes, there was a mistake that was corrected. But we should crucify MR for it anyway, right? All kinds of double standards going around everywhere it seems.
 
C DM said:
It shouldn't have been there, yes, there was a mistake that was corrected. But we should crucify MR for it anyway, right? All kinds of double standards going around everywhere it seems.
Click to expand...


I guess my thought is that posting this guys name, without any real proof that he's responsible, was egregious. In my mind it was a far greater crime than Apple releasing phones that bend or an iOS update that temporarily broke some phones.

Neither of those events ruined anyone's life. This release of information may do just that.
 
atsang said:
I'm really familiar with this, because I'm a QA Manager at a software company.

This happens at virtually every single software company in the world:

1. Product Managers want to release on the date they promised, and pressure everyone to fix things as fast as possible.
2. Developers fix bugs BUT INTRODUCE NEW ONES IN THE PROCESS. This is called regression.
3. QA has tested nearly everything once, but it is impossible to test everything again for every single change a developer makes.
4. Eventually the release date rolls around, and each release has some level of bug risk due to regression.

There are tons of variables that can account for buggy software being released:
1. Product Managers - This is probably the main reason. They always plan for a ton of features but never plan for the time it takes to test it and retest it. They set a hard release date, then when it comes time to test/retest, they say "RELEASE IT!". They often do this by simply marking P1 bugs as P2/3s.

2. Quality of developers - Good ones write their own tests and test before QA to ensure what they write is high quality. Bad ones don't even think about QA. Developers are the only people that create bugs :p

3. Management - If this guy was managing 100+ people, there is no way he can be responsible for this specific issue. He's probably got a layer of management below him, and another layer of QA people doing the actual testing. At that point, he's simply trusting that the work they are doing is valid. I guarantee you he isn't personally deep diving in each test case himself to ensure quality. If anything, fault him for his hiring ability.

The simple truth, all software is buggy to varying degrees. You can never know what you don't know, until you know it. Maybe they didnt have a test for this bug. Maybe they did, but it passed earlier, but then got broken again at some point. We don't know the situation.
Click to expand...

I agree. It doesn't help that they didn't have the latest iphone 6's until the consumer release. Kinda hard to do regression testing without testing it on all hardware.

----------
pullfocus said:
You know, redacted or not, publishing this guy's name, thereby enabling an internet burning the witch at the stake, is just low, dirty ****, macrumors.

Whether Bloomberg published his name first or not, it's still cheap click-bait.

arn, your standards are slipping.
Click to expand...

True, but pandora's box has already been opened. One something is leaked out, it is hard, natch impossible to remove. They shouldn't of put a direct link to his linked in profile though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back