I didn't miss it. It is why Assassin's Creed Shadows runs well across all the versions of Apple Silicon, just like how it runs well on all version of PS5 (or even Xbox), right?
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Apple is falling behind, M4 Max nowhere close to RTX 5090.
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I don’t think anyone’s advocating for Apple to release/fund original games just for the buzz each could generate for a little while.
This is something they have to keep up for a while for it to have any meaningful effect (like 5+ years of consistent releases) so it can’t just be about the short term. In addition, I don’t think anyone is going to develop according to Apple’s best practices if the game is intended for other platforms but that’s much more of a possibility if it’s an Apple platform-exclusive game. Finally, I don’t think this is about just AAA games or the Mac. I can’t see this strategy working out without the large user base of iOS being part of it given (as you mentioned) the Mac’s low market share here. And it’d be nice to have ‘lower grade’ but more focused games in the mix that aren’t AAA.
IMHO it’s still short term buzz until the next big title. I don’t think it’s enough to sway anyone one way or the other.
In addition, Apple do not get any revenue for the games sold, unlike the console market. So it’s just money down the drain for Apple if you ask me. Besides, it’s probably not enough Mac profit for Apple to even consider this, IMHO.
If Apple is certain that funding major games publisher can instantly or increase Mac revenue and profit long term, you can bet that Apple will already be doing that. I don’t think Apple’s management is averse to making money.
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The lure of huge profits could move mountains. I'll just end with this
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Well, then, it seems like you missed the point. He admits that “There is a lot of work to be done” in this regard (“devices as consoles”) — the practical system requirements for Assassin’s Creed Shadows on macOS are an example of that. [Still, you might want to wait until the iPadOS version comes out before completely dismissing the general idea.]
In addition, he advocates for an actual Apple console: “… now I am inclined to agree with those who have argued that in order to change the tides Apple needs to launch a console-like device.”
This is followed by a discussion of what such a console might look like. Then you chime in to say computers aren’t consoles, which is beside the point. The point is that Apple silicon devices could become more like consoles, or even an actual console. So pardon me for thinking you might not have been aware of the earlier discussion…
I think only Valve can get away with making a console and having "0" first party games, purely on the back of the Steam store. I don't think Apple has that luxury. They are going to need flashy games to get folks attention and are going to need to own said flashy games so folks just don't say I'll wait and get it on Playstation (this is kind of Microsoft's problem now).
Apple's hardware is already console like in terms of integration, not end user expectation of buying the hardware then getting years of game support, which we are already seeing as being a thing that isn't happening all that well (Assassin's Creed, Robocop, etc).
Don't get me wrong (as I type this on my M1 Max 14" MacBook Pro) I want Apple to be a viable alternative to Nvidia. At least for gaming, I assume they are for everything else (well maybe not AI training).
I would like Apple be a viable alternative as well, unfortunately I don't see that being likely without *substantial* effort on Apple's part.
I think they would have to address a number of factors over a period of years, maybe even a decade at this point, which I don't believe Apple has the stomach for. There's the elephant in the room like how someone who's passionate about gaming is either:
A. Not in the market for a Mac
B. Affluent enough to afford both.
They'd have to spend money funding 3rd party developers to get ports of popular games for years on end to at least break the stigma of "Macs aren't meant for gaming". Because as it currently stands, developers really don't lose that many sales without a Mac port, and don't really recoup any money spent on making a port themselves.
Apple's "Strategy" was always "iOS first" where if there was a port of a game for iPhone or iPad, then it could easily be transferred over to Mac, not necessarily a bad plan considering how these platforms are important enough to warrant big, multiplatform game engines to support Apple's APIs.
However, it hasn't panned out very well considering Macs have missed out on lots of very popular titles regardless of whether the engine supports Metal or not.
If I were to brainstorm a strategy to help Apple make inroads into gaming (a herculean task), I think I would target popular multiplayer titles first. Marvel Rivals, CS2, Valorant, Tarkov, etc. None of these require cutting edge hardware and having more "Mac Players" would go further to break the "Macs aren't meant for gaming" stigma than ports of singleplayer titles. Have a big "OUR GAME IS NOW ON MAC" campaign like Valve did with Team Fortress 2 did back in the day even, with unique cosmetic items.
Likewise, I would release these ports on Steam as well as the App Store, maybe try to leverage a cross-licensing agreement so that you only have to buy the game once on the App Store to get it on Steam (Vice versa likely wouldn't happen, given that Steam offers sales so often and asking Apple to honor a license for a sale for a Windows game is probably a bridge too far.) Releasing only on the App Store is a losing strategy when Steam is dominant.
The downside to this strategy is that it's basically burning big piles of cash for a long time hoping for a return sometime in the future. A return which would be hard to measure since you can't always ascribe an uptick in Mac sales to one factor alone, nor is guaranteed to ever happen.
For someone working on a Mac, choosing a PC laptop with an RTX 5090 over a MacBook M4 Max would probably be the dumbest thing in the world. Apart from the fact that the RTX 5090 is 1/3 more powerful in some tasks (at three times the power consumption) than the M4 Max GPU, the PC laptop is inferior in most other important aspects.
People keep this whole Windows versus Mac thing going, but they are totally different devices. This is even more so that Mac is on ARM. Yes Windows can be too, but it’s not even in the same category.
You buy the machine that fits your needs best not the one that gets the higher number on some benchmark. If the primary purpose is gaming, that’s the Windows laptop. I’m sure there are some other tasks that the Windows laptop excels over Mac, but I can’t think of one right now. For everything else that I know of, I feel the Mac works better. I’m sure someone’s going to chime in that some specific form of coding works better on Windows and if that’s the case, go for the Windows laptop.
In the end, I don’t think it’s one is better than the other. They are different tools for different jobs. Buy the tool that fits what you need.
I don't think this discussion is as pointless as you characterize it. There are many computationally-demanding tasks (i.e., tasks whose completion time is limited by the performance of the machine) that can be done on either a Mac or a PC, including video processing and scientific computing.
I.e., those are clearly not examples of different tools for different jobs. Those are two different tools that can be used for the same jobs.
Thus it's entirely reasonable to compare their performance.
I've seen several posts from those doing video work who say they prefer working on a Mac, but still need to keep an NVIDIA PC box around for heavy rendering jobs. It thus makes sense that they'd hope that someday the Mac would have that capability so they wouldn't need to buy two separate machines.
More broadly, MR is in part a technology discussion forum. And if one manufacturer is able to produce a product with a certain capability, that's interesting, because it tells you what's technologically possible. And if it's possible for NVIDA to do it, that's interesting, because it means it's potentially possible for Apple as well (I say potentially because of Apple's decision to maintain more stringent power constraints).
You are correct that you can use a Windows PC and a Mac for some of the same tasks. They have overlapping utility for some things. It would be silly to say that wasn’t true.
My point is there are some used cases where one out performs the other by a significant margin. At that point, you are using the wrong tool for the job. It’s a free country and you can choose to use the wrong tool for the job, but you’re not going to like the results.
I’m not sure where you thought I said having a discussion was pointless. I don’t think I said that. I’m just saying that for some jobs one out performs the other. Get the one that works best for what you’re doing. The discussion here can highlight what these tasks are.
Also, I think when you have Windows PCs pushing 1000 watts it’s going to brute force some tasks. I’m not sure how long it’s going to be for Apple to catch up with that. Eventually, there’s going to hit a power cap because most outlets in the US are not going to support more than 1500 watts. Maybe by then Apple will catch up, but that’s speculation.
Sorry if I misintepreted you, but I got it from this:
....which I interpreted to mean this:
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I can see where you got that. It just seems silly when people post about how the 5090 is better for gaming or things like that. It’s like yeah of course a screwdriver is better than a hammer at driving screws. I’m not saying people don’t need to discuss it, but it becomes silly at a point.
They are for different people because clearly if someone is interested in gaming, they’re not going to buy a Mac or at least they shouldn’t buy a Mac
On the Windows side, folks are buying gaming laptops because they are cheaper than getting a mobile workstation.
I suspect lower build quality, but it still will get the job done. I remember when I was younger and saw workstation laptops, I was always impressed by how they were built.
I’ve personally bought quite a few budget gaming laptops for gaming and while they didn’t last very long, I had fun gaming on them.
That DIY segment could also shrink over the next 2-3 years depending on economic factors. However, while that market might be smaller in total volume, there is a higher profit margin there compared to prebuilts such as those from HP, Lenovo, Asus, Dell, etc. A significant portion of the Computex trade show last week revolved around the enthusiast/DIY segments of the market, with a significant portion also dedicated to AI.
For such a small market, it was interesting to see all the floor space dedicated to products for it at various vendor booths.
I think you mean "new" first party games, as Half Life, TF, CounterStrike and Portal are all Valve titles.
Profit margins rule the business world - that's why Nvidia is basically ignoring the consumer space in favor of AI/datacenter products. But companies such as ASUS, CoolerMaster, Corsair, BeQuiet, LianLi all make most of their profits from that DIY segment despite its overall smaller size.
That why I put 0 in quotes. Yes they have titles first party titles and 2 of them are "recent" (I am 100% ignoring the RTX Remixes that nvidia sponsored). Maybe we will see Half Life 3 this year, giggle.
I probably worded it wrong. It is an API that allows you to meld all the hip things like AI and OpenUSD into industrial tools. Does Apple have an equivalent API?
The Mac has always been a personal computer. Its purpose has never been to offer the highest raw speed; its goal is to make the user more productive.I probably worded it wrong. It is an API that allows you to meld all the hip things like AI and OpenUSD into industrial tools. Does Apple have an equivalent API?
If I was an engineer building industrial tools, then I’d write code on my Mac and run it on one of those machines. But do I care about raw benchmarks? No, I do not. Ever since the very first Macs, you could always get more ops or flops per dollar on the other hardware.
I probably worded it wrong. It is an API that allows you to meld all the hip things like AI and OpenUSD into industrial tools. Does Apple have an equivalent API?
To be fair, this is not a Mac vs. PC question — that's an Nvidia-owned platform. Can you use this platform with an AMD or Intel GPU for example?
For what it is worth, it seems that Omiverse platform heavily relies on Universal Scene Description, and Apple is one of the founding members of the Alliance for OpenUSD and support for USD is built into all Apple platforms. USD was also prominently featured in WWDC sessions.