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He can, because it isn't a manufacturing defect, it is the way the phone and the antenna are designed. Seriously, how can anyone deny this?
I wasn't aware that there was a cellphone Antenna Design Engineer monitoring this thread. Thanks for clearing it all up. My iPhone 4, which isn't displaying any of these symptoms apparently is the one that has a manufacturing defect allowing it to work perfectly. Just my luck.
 
I wasn't aware that there was a cellphone Antenna Design Engineer monitoring this thread. Thanks for clearing it all up. My iPhone 4, which isn't displaying any of these symptoms apparently is the one that has a manufacturing defect allowing it to work perfectly. Just my luck.

Eh, when it comes to the iPhone everyone is an expert or mcgyver with diy fixes.
 
I wasn't aware that there was a cellphone Antenna Design Engineer monitoring this thread. Thanks for clearing it all up. My iPhone 4, which isn't displaying any of these symptoms apparently is the one that has a manufacturing defect allowing it to work perfectly. Just my luck.

So just to be clear, are you saying that if you pinch the black bands on either side of your phone and run the speedtest app (like in the picture below), you don't get any change in download speed? (unlike the picture below).

iPhone4_Antenna_660.jpg
 
So just to be clear, are you saying that if you pinch the black bands on either side of your phone and run the speedtest app (like in the picture below), you don't get any change in download speed? (unlike the picture below).

iPhone4_Antenna_660.jpg

I just tested my iP4 pinching it exactly as you are with (of course) Wifi turned off. Here are my results:
DL - 4528
UL - 1265
Fairly consistent with my usual readings...
 
I saw at least 2 post saying they have 2 iphone4 side by side and only one have problem and not the other, I wonder if there is a bad batch circulating out there.
 
You've tried 4 out of the 1.6 million sold, 0.0000025 % of them, and can positively state that all iPhone 4s have the same problem that yours has. That's funny.

LOL! SO you are still in denial! Read these forums! I bet 1 in 4 will be returned! AT&T and APple are even taking them back without a restocking fee. Read and think!:eek:
 
I saw at least 2 post saying they have 2 iphone4 side by side and only one have problem and not the other, I wonder if there is a bad batch circulating out there.

Oh well if you say a post, maybe all this is a mistake!:rolleyes:
 
I just tested my iP4 pinching it exactly as you are with (of course) Wifi turned off. Here are my results:
DL - 4528
UL - 1265
Fairly consistent with my usual readings...

Look at your download speeds! You're clearly in a really high quality signal area - thus the degradation in signal does not result in degradation in speed.

I don't understand arguments like this.

Here is an analogy: suppose Apple throttled software updates at 100 KB/s on OSX, and you usually used a wireless G card (54 Mb/s). Lets suppose your home network uses mixed B/G and a wireless B client (11 Mb/s) joins the network. The whole network then drops to B speeds. Do you notice when you're downloading your software update from Apple?

No, because 11 Mb/s wifi is enough to saturare the 100 KB/s limit. Now lets suppose Apple decide everyone can download at 2 MB/s. Do you notice when a B client joins the network?

Yes, because your loss in network speed drops you below the maximum available.

The same thing applies with your phone. if you are holding it in the 'death grip' and you don't notice any loss in signal it's because you can still saturate your connection on a lower signal.
 
Look at your download speeds! You're clearly in a really high quality signal area - thus the degradation in signal does not result in degradation in speed.

I don't understand arguments like this.

Here is an analogy: suppose Apple throttled software updates at 100 KB/s on OSX, and you usually used a wireless G card (54 Mb/s). Lets suppose your home network uses mixed B/G and a wireless B client (11 Mb/s) joins the network. The whole network then drops to B speeds. Do you notice when you're downloading your software update from Apple?

No, because 11 Mb/s wifi is enough to saturare the 100 KB/s limit. Now lets suppose Apple decide everyone can download at 2 MB/s. Do you notice when a B client joins the network?

Yes, because your loss in network speed drops you below the maximum available.

The same thing applies with your phone. if you are holding it in the 'death grip' and you don't notice any loss in signal it's because you can still saturate your connection on a lower signal.
Let me just say this...I have no need to ever hold my iPhone in a death grip...secondly, if my signal bars dropped when I held it a certain way, but I had no loss of data or call connection, I wouldn't be having a conniption fit like many are here ...
I have stated many times that I feel for those that are having serious call/data drop problems, but those that are trying their hardest to replicate the bar dropping issue just to say they have it, but haven' had ANY call/data drop issues in real world use, I have zero sympathy for...
My phone works better than my 3GS...If people have a hard time believing it, so be it...doesn't change the fact...
This thing has been blown so far out of proportion (as are most Apple issues) that people that don't have it seem to be disappointed that they don't LOL

We've seen threads with topics such as 'what do I have to do to get my iP4 to drop bars?", and "I can get mine to drop bars if i hold it in a death grip!"...
This kind of sensationalism ruins it for those that truly have a call/data dropping problem in "real world use", not in a lab test environment...

If this call drop issue was as widespread as many here want us to believe, why are people not lined up all over the world returning the over 1.7 million iP4's already in service? (in fact, tens of thousands more are being sold every day).
Some people are reporting serious drops...ok...we get it...return the iP4 to the store for a 100% non-restocking fee refund and either buy a different phone or wait to see what Apple does in the coming week...
I seriously don't understand all the panic and hate from people not dropping calls or data connection...
 
So it happens a lot that a company makes a item that they know is defective? Can't they get in trouble?

No I'm not in manufacturing.....I'm just a good ole Army grunt. Still I'm shocked that you say this happens all the time.

What did you manufacture?

Your in the Army. Well first thanks, its because of people like you that I can do what I do.

Second, your in the Army and you doubt subpar equipment being passed off as good? :)

The military has plenty of examples of manufacturing problems being glossed over by the manufacturer only to have one of the military branches find out and insist they be fixed.

I worked in auto manufacturing. Both in IT and Chassis engineering, strange combo, but I worked a lot with manufacturing systems and with suppliers who ran into issues like this all the time.

When there is a bad part, you just keep on building, we'll fix it later.

Here is a good example. Mercedes Benz. Most American car companies look at warranty based on failures. They build 1 million cars and the top problem is a bad radio. 2 percent of the cars built have a bad radio. So they implement a running change to fix the radio. Determine the root cause, fix the problem, and slide the fixed unit right in the middle of production.

Mercedes however has assigned a dollar amount to a car for warranty. Let's say they decide that a S-Class Mercedes should not have more than $8,000 in warranty claims over the warranty period. So now a part goes bad, lets say the same radio but its only $300 to fix at the dealer and as a whole it does not push them over the $8,000 limit.

They just keep on building them and fix them later. They'll fix it next time it goes for a model change.

The facts add up:

1. You have a large group of people complaining about 2 problems. One is the bar/holding issue and the second is massive amounts of dropped calls and poor data service even with a solid connection.

2. White iPhone production mysteriously stopped with a very late announcement? If all the people on here who say Apple doesn't make production errors or don't get it, then why wait till the last day to announce a production problem? My guess is they found a problem. They fixed it, but to hit production targets and launch dates those white iPhone lines were turned into black iPhone lines to meet targets since the white/black mix is much higher on the black side.

3. The mysterious delays in shipping for all of those who ordered during the initial launch. Tons of people had their orders changed for no reason and pushed back.

4. The Apple guys reaction when I told him I bought a early launch phone, he specifically asked when we ordered them and when they were delivered. I was still well within any grace period for returns and the phone could not have been more than 8 days old. It was a canned question.

5. Apple is stingy with new phone replacements but after explaining my problems in detail, what I did to fix it, and I told him when we ordered our phones he pulled out 2 iPhone 4 replacements from what he called limited stock however in our 40 minute wait to work through and activate both phones I saw at least 3 Genius staff members dedicated to replacing iPhone 4's.

Too many things don't add up, including Apple's big denial. There is obviously a problem.

I just look at things logically. My first iPhone 4 was a huge pile of crap, people said those of us with bad phones are just whining and complaining defending a company they have no vested interest in. Well they replaced my phone and now it works as it should. If I was just trolling do you think I'd say I'm extremely happy with my replacement phone?

Don't have time for games, I just want what I pay for to work.

Plus Apple has a long history of producing defect laden products, denying there is a problem, and fixing it later, i.e the 27" iMac issues, SL breaking a whole lot of stuff, denying it was an issue, then a 3rd party called them out and MAGICALLY they produce a fix....

They produced a defective product, they deny it, while fixing it in the background.

Who knows how much the whole Foxconn suicide thing plays into this. Apple had enough bad PR, they going to get on the news and say how crappy Foxconn built bad phones?

Who knows but the facts add up to a batch of bad phones, that simple.
 
So just to be clear, are you saying that if you pinch the black bands on either side of your phone and run the speedtest app (like in the picture below), you don't get any change in download speed? (unlike the picture below).

Just tried, zero difference.

However with my old iPhone 4 I was getting over 1mbps upload, now I barely get 200kbps but I'm in a heavy use area.
 
Your in the Army. Well first thanks, its because of people like you that I can do what I do.

Second, your in the Army and you doubt subpar equipment being passed off as good? :)

The military has plenty of examples of manufacturing problems being glossed over by the manufacturer only to have one of the military branches find out and insist they be fixed.

I worked in auto manufacturing. Both in IT and Chassis engineering, strange combo, but I worked a lot with manufacturing systems and with suppliers who ran into issues like this all the time.

When there is a bad part, you just keep on building, we'll fix it later.

Here is a good example. Mercedes Benz. Most American car companies look at warranty based on failures. They build 1 million cars and the top problem is a bad radio. 2 percent of the cars built have a bad radio. So they implement a running change to fix the radio. Determine the root cause, fix the problem, and slide the fixed unit right in the middle of production.

Mercedes however has assigned a dollar amount to a car for warranty. Let's say they decide that a S-Class Mercedes should not have more than $8,000 in warranty claims over the warranty period. So now a part goes bad, lets say the same radio but its only $300 to fix at the dealer and as a whole it does not push them over the $8,000 limit.

They just keep on building them and fix them later. They'll fix it next time it goes for a model change.

The facts add up:

1. You have a large group of people complaining about 2 problems. One is the bar/holding issue and the second is massive amounts of dropped calls and poor data service even with a solid connection.

2. White iPhone production mysteriously stopped with a very late announcement? If all the people on here who say Apple doesn't make production errors or don't get it, then why wait till the last day to announce a production problem? My guess is they found a problem. They fixed it, but to hit production targets and launch dates those white iPhone lines were turned into black iPhone lines to meet targets since the white/black mix is much higher on the black side.

3. The mysterious delays in shipping for all of those who ordered during the initial launch. Tons of people had their orders changed for no reason and pushed back.

4. The Apple guys reaction when I told him I bought a early launch phone, he specifically asked when we ordered them and when they were delivered. I was still well within any grace period for returns and the phone could not have been more than 8 days old. It was a canned question.

5. Apple is stingy with new phone replacements but after explaining my problems in detail, what I did to fix it, and I told him when we ordered our phones he pulled out 2 iPhone 4 replacements from what he called limited stock however in our 40 minute wait to work through and activate both phones I saw at least 3 Genius staff members dedicated to replacing iPhone 4's.

Too many things don't add up, including Apple's big denial. There is obviously a problem.

I just look at things logically. My first iPhone 4 was a huge pile of crap, people said those of us with bad phones are just whining and complaining defending a company they have no vested interest in. Well they replaced my phone and now it works as it should. If I was just trolling do you think I'd say I'm extremely happy with my replacement phone?

Don't have time for games, I just want what I pay for to work.

Plus Apple has a long history of producing defect laden products, denying there is a problem, and fixing it later, i.e the 27" iMac issues, SL breaking a whole lot of stuff, denying it was an issue, then a 3rd party called them out and MAGICALLY they produce a fix....

They produced a defective product, they deny it, while fixing it in the background.

Who knows how much the whole Foxconn suicide thing plays into this. Apple had enough bad PR, they going to get on the news and say how crappy Foxconn built bad phones?

Who knows but the facts add up to a batch of bad phones, that simple.

Do you mind telling me your upload speeds on 3G and also if you experience any 3G data outages/slow connections.

Thx.
 
I wasn't aware that there was a cellphone Antenna Design Engineer monitoring this thread. Thanks for clearing it all up. My iPhone 4, which isn't displaying any of these symptoms apparently is the one that has a manufacturing defect allowing it to work perfectly. Just my luck.

you are so deep in denial its untrue. I cant believe people still think that its only some iPhone that are affected.

ITS A DESIGN FLAW - THEY ARE ALL DESIGNED EXACTLY THE SAME.
 
Do you mind telling me your upload speeds on 3G and also if you experience any 3G data outages/slow connections.

Thx.

Not with the new phone, no. Upload speed sucks but it doesn't effect how I use the phone and I've never tested the upload speed except at home.

I did get 1.4mbps uploading but that was at 1am when there wasn't heavy usage on the towers.

I'll try when we're out and about tomorrow.

I'm getting around 150 to 200 kbps consistently.
 
Not with the new phone, no. Upload speed sucks but it doesn't effect how I use the phone and I've never tested the upload speed except at home.

I did get 1.4mbps uploading but that was at 1am when there wasn't heavy usage on the towers.

I'll try when we're out and about tomorrow.

I'm getting around 150 to 200 kbps consistently.

Yeah. Mines been connecting again to data for 2 days now. My dl is about what you report. I have also no had the signal issues ever with my handset.

I have been frustrated with data issues, so I may call and have them reprovision my sim again.
All in all, I have not had any other concerns.

Strange thing is when I got it, I was getting 900kbps up for 2 days, now it seems like it has a governor on it.
 
Well I just tried again for a replacement, the guy and manager at the genius bar both said they couldn't do a replacement for just the reception issue, both recommended that if I want to try another iPhone to see if I get the same results, to reserve one and when it comes in they will return and refund my iPhone and sell me another one on the spot, so in a way it would be like an exchange and that it would extend my return period for another month if it still won't work. It's just weird that they have no problem doing a return and resale at the same time but not an exchange.
 
Well I just tried again for a replacement, the guy and manager at the genius bar both said they couldn't do a replacement for just the reception issue, both recommended that if I want to try another iPhone to see if I get the same results, to reserve one and when it comes in they will return and refund my iPhone and sell me another one on the spot, so in a way it would be like an exchange and that it would extend my return period for another month if it still won't work. It's just weird that they have no problem doing a return and resale at the same time but not an exchange.
what happens with your contract though, if on ATT? do they not tamper with it all??

BTW do you have a case?
 
I got my phone swapped at my Apple store. Not for the reception, lower left bar deal, but for the 3G speed deal.

He re-imaged my phone, I was able to do it again, and he swapped my on the spot. Went from a week 23 phone to a week 26.
 
what happens with your contract though, if on ATT? do they not tamper with it all??

BTW do you have a case?

I assume they just won't touch my contract and just swap out the phones, refund and charge all on the same receipt, but not sure.

And yeah, I got a case, regardless I plan on keeping an iPhone and it's the only to prevent lost service at my house. I just want to make sure it's an issue with all phones and not just the one I have. Btw, I get not service at all at my house when I pick up my phone with my left hand, and if I use my right I have to make sure I don't touch the spot with my finger as I wrap it around my phone.
 
Your in the Army. Well first thanks, its because of people like you that I can do what I do.

Second, your in the Army and you doubt subpar equipment being passed off as good? :)

The military has plenty of examples of manufacturing problems being glossed over by the manufacturer only to have one of the military branches find out and insist they be fixed.

Just wanted to stop back in and thank you for this. It is my honor to serve our great nation.

Happy 4th :D
 
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