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Map data

Since Apple's own application sources map data from both Open SteetMaps & TomTom, I fail to see the bottle-neck here

Tomtom is pretty up-to-date, (i've never used Open Street Maps, but I'm sure its the same), so this Apples customised system ?
 
I work in this industry. Trust me, they don't.

It's frightening enough to know that. I did some work within the Indie film scene back in the day doing storyboards, so I understand lack of originality that goes around in there.

The original WarGames is a classic but that remake they're doing. . .I've no idea how they're pull this off with an untested screenwriter. They're gonna get cooked if they don't map it out properly.
 
Saving Grace

This could have gone 2 ways:

1) Apple could have done Samsung (insert any other smartphone manufactures of andriod version) and just copy or steal someones date/technology. Consumers would have been happy and Apple in a pickle with law suits and credibility.

2) Apple do what they have done and start from scratch, licensing what they can. Consumers unhappy, but in the long term it can always say it was all their own work and not plagiarized.

I for one am glad that Apple has taken the latter stance. Not many companies out there would have the guts to do this.
 
This could have gone 2 ways:

1) Apple could have done Samsung (insert any other smartphone manufactures of andriod version) and just copy or steal someones date/technology. Consumers would have been happy and Apple in a pickle with law suits and credibility.

2) Apple do what they have done and start from scratch, licensing what they can. Consumers unhappy, but in the long term it can always say it was all their own work and not plagiarized.

I for one am glad that Apple has taken the latter stance. Not many companies out there would have the guts to do this.

3) properly licensed good working technology from another vendor and actually pay what it's worth. Giving consumers good experience and not "stealing" technology.

Like you know, negotiate a proper license to Google's vectors maps/turn-by-turn/etc.. etc.. so that we didn't lose what we had to gain turn-by-turn navigation that might lead you straight to a brick wall or down a cliff or something.
 
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It's frightening enough to know that. I did some work within the Indie film scene back in the day doing storyboards, so I understand lack of originality that goes around in there.

The original WarGames is a classic but that remake they're doing. . .I've no idea how they're pull this off with an untested screenwriter. They're gonna get cooked if they don't map it out properly.
I was discussing this with a friend of mine who is a screenwriter and we are both of the mind that it was made during the cold war, it's a film with a distinct cold war mentality, so why can't it stay that way?

Sure, there are some movies that a remake is deserving, but very few. Why can't some movies of made during their time just be left alone as artistic and entertaining representations of that time?
 
This could have gone 2 ways:

1) Apple could have done Samsung (insert any other smartphone manufactures of andriod version) and just copy or steal someones date/technology. Consumers would have been happy and Apple in a pickle with law suits and credibility.

What data/technology is stolen or copied if an Android OEM use Google Maps?
 
I was discussing this with a friend of mine who is a screenwriter and we are both of the mind that it was made during the cold war, it's a film with a distinct cold war mentality, so why can't it stay that way?

Sure, there are some movies that a remake is deserving, but very few. Why can't some movies of made during their time just be left alone as artistic and entertaining representations of that time?

A remake is never an unmake. No one will go back in time and prevent the first movie from being made.
 
If what I'm about to say has already been said, my apologies.

Rome wasn't built in a day. And even under Steve Jobs, Apple products had their fair share of glitches. There simply is no way around the problems with Maps. It's a crowd-sourced database. You're not going to build a crowd-sourced database without a crowd.

And many have said that Apple should have kept the old Maps app in there during the transition period. I respectfully say that that would have only made these problems worse. Here's what would have happened. People would still used the old app. Maps would have had nowhere near the number of people needed to adequately field-test Maps because most people would use the Maps app. It would make the process of getting Maps to where it needs to be only worse.

And if it's true that the license agreement that Apple had with Google prohibited turn-by-turn directions, then there you have it. Apple didn't have a choice but to get away from Google. You people don't seem to realize that Google competes with Apple. For Google, iOS is a second-class citizen. Back when Google debuted turn-by-turn for Android's version of Google Maps, Google did not indicate that a similar solution was in the works for iOS. As a consumer, I don't think it is in my best interests for Apple to entrust something that I use extensively to a company that will favor its own product at the expense of my platform. I am willing to take the pain with Maps knowing that this feature is in the hands of a company that cares about my smartphone platform.
 
If what I'm about to say has already been said, my apologies.

Even if it has, this type of rational analysis bears repeating in a thread so full of angry people who seem to have such a large emotional investment in wishing Apple to fail.
 
And many have said that Apple should have kept the old Maps app in there during the transition period. I respectfully say that that would have only made these problems worse. Here's what would have happened. People would still used the old app. Maps would have had nowhere near the number of people needed to adequately field-test Maps because most people would use the Maps app. It would make the process of getting Maps to where it needs to be only worse.

I agree entirely, and its why I can't see us getting an App Store version of Google Maps any time soon - it works against Apple's interests. It's also not in Google's interests - overnight Apple have given people a reason to defect to Android, why would Google negate that?

Re crowd sourcing - one of my major complaints about ios6 maps is the appalling quality of satellite imagery. I live on the edge of a major conurbation and, apart from a small central area, the entire area (pop 2 million+) is a pixelated mess in which it's difficult to even identify which areas are towns, let alone identify features within them. How is crowd sourcing going to improve this? Are we meant to crowd source satellite images for Apple?!

The bottom line for me is that last week I had a maps app which worked well. This week I don't, and I'm not happy about it.
 
will still be garbage compared to google
agreed. apple is (for now) king of making good looking electronics that work well together.

google is king of organising the world's information. including maps.

apple made a huge error thinking they could catch up to google so quickly.
 
Even if it has, this type of rational analysis bears repeating in a thread so full of angry people who seem to have such a large emotional investment in wishing Apple to fail.

I'm sorry, users being pissed at this situation are not wishing Apple to fail. Quite the contrary, they're pissed Apple failed. I wanted Apple to succeed and give me a good mapping experience, I'm pissed off they didn't.

Even in these threads, some people just can't accept that it's not a "Apple haters vs Apple fanboys" forum, it must always devolve to that single argument where if you don't like what Apple does, you're a hater, if you like it, you're a fanboy. There's no rationality in that, I don't know what you see there.

Rome wasn't built in a day, but it wasn't built over the top of the ruins of Old Rome which had a fully working Aqueduct, a coliseum, bath houses only to give the people a couple of sheep farms and mud roads instead, calling it "the best experience in Rome yet!".
 
Even if it has, this type of rational analysis bears repeating in a thread so full of angry people who seem to have such a large emotional investment in wishing Apple to fail.

And you seem to have a large emotional investment in defending Apple against the indefensible. Most of the people complaining aren't doing so because they want Apple to fail. They're griping because they don't like the new maps app.

You don't have to be 100% invested in everything a company does to be considered a "true fan" or whatever. Only liking 85% of what Apple does doesn't make you an Apple hater. It's as simple as that.

edit: or what WRX said 10 minutes ago. I knew I should've scrolled to the bottom of the page before replying.
 
How Ridiculous Is It That Apple Maps Redirect To Google Maps On The Web?

Yes, Apple Maps redirect to Google Maps on desktop, Android and any non-iOS 6 phones when you share your location. Womp. Obviously this is happening because there’s no hub for Apple Maps on the web, but still, the absurdity of this loop is exemplary of how ill-thought out this whole Maps switch was.

Like you most likely, I’m still sort of confused by the logic here: I have iOS 6, and when I try to share my location from Apple Maps to Facebook and Twitter, Apple Maps shares a maps.apple.com URL wrapper. If you click that Facebook or Twitter link from the web, it will load Google Maps with the specified address.

If you click on the Twitter link in iOS 6, it takes you to Apple Maps on mobile. If you click on the Facebook link in iOS 6, it takes you to Google Maps. Huh? I’m assuming iOS 5 users and other OS users get Google Maps all around, which is possibly one explanation for why there’s no coherent location share structure yet.

But wait, there’s even more incongruity down the Apple Maps rabbit hole! If you attempt to share your Apple Maps location by email or iMessage, Apple Maps sends a VCard alongside the maps.apple.com URL and inside the VCard, you will find the same URL. If you click on that URL via iOS 6, it launches Apple Maps. On web or iOS 5, not so much.

In addition, sharing a location via text or email to an Android phone sends the same VCard and maps.apple.com URL, which then redirects to Google Maps. My lord, what a mess.
 
How Ridiculous Is It That Apple Maps Redirect To Google Maps On The Web?

I'm sorry I don't follow your criticism here. Basically, if you share your location with someone on iOS5 or the web why wouldn't it redirect to Google maps? If the recipient isn't using iOS6 or an iDevice then Apple's maps isn't available, which would make sharing impossible.
 
I don''t understand. Maps has been a mess since Beta. Why does it take an official release for Apple to fix it (attempt to fix it)?

Because nobody in upper executive management actually used and tested the app. Haven't you noticed this trend since Cook came to power? There is no "final eye" on anything, it seems. No ultimate arbiter of quality control. Apple used to have that, but not anymore. A VP tells Cook "okay, maps is done" and Cook says "okay, let's roll." A VP tells Jobs "okay, maps is done" and Jobs says "riight, we'll see about that…" as he launches the app.
 
Because nobody in upper executive management actually used and tested the app. Haven't you noticed this trend since Cook came to power? There is no "final eye" on anything, it seems. No ultimate arbiter of quality control. Apple used to have that, but not anymore. A VP tells Cook "okay, maps is done" and Cook says "okay, let's roll." A VP tells Jobs "okay, maps is done" and Jobs says "riight, we'll see about that…" as he launches the app.

How is it that you know this?
 
"Now/Today" need vs "Eventually" need

The fun part about all this is the different categories of need. I've seen some saying "never use maps, why are you all so torqued about this?" to "Google maps are bad as no turn by turn or this or that" to "map data will eventually get better".

For those that don't have a direct immediate need of good maps, don't use it day-to-day, or the features override the data in priority with belief that data will improve over time and Google maps makes data errors too, its certainly understandable that this group won't see the Maps app issue as a big failure or concern. Rightly so.

Unfortunately, the users of the iPhone aren't a homogeneous group. Among us is the group where the Map app for a variety of reasons may be as essential a day-to-day item as phone calling or email or whatever else and the map data may be much more important than new features or functions...when I type in an address it needs to go to the right place first time whether there is a turn-by-turn capability or not. This group can include students going to their first job interview, small business people in the field that go to different client locations for the first time every day (delivery, appraisal, home inspection, delivery, home care, cleaning, etc), people on vacation, visiting, or moving to a new location and trying to find their way around, etc. And the variety of available map data for more than addresses along with the variety of ways to easily get to that data (i.e. link directly from email info to map) and alternate means to examine the data to verify where you are going (satellite pic with good detail, streetview type functions, etc) and not having to pop into a Web browser or a variety of secondary apps (sometimes even more than one) to use maps to find a place only increases this growth in dependence on the reliability of map data to "find" where you want to go and it working properly and neatly (as in Apple's "it just works"). This group has adopted to this way of doing things, so its not frivolous to them whether it works or not...they need it to work "now" and to continue to work "now" since its been working fine since "then" and they've structured their way of working/playing/traveling/etc to that capability just the same as so many have structured the way they socialize to integrate social networking media into their daily lives. Some can put down social media, but you can't deny it or turn it off suddenly with it being so prevalent, it is what it is.

And to take the social media example one more step, there are those that structure their business, advertising, interactions, scheduling, etc around that...well, the same goes to businesses that just like the old "presence in the phone book" idea, have structured themselves to be visible where the majority of map and location searches happen, in this case between Android and the old iOS pre-6, was Google.

So keep those groups in mind and now picture Apple walks in and basically says "hey, we have a new functionality/capability for maps for you but in the process the data is going to suck big time in many areas and your collective experience is going to move it up from, lets say, 10% error to 70-90% depending on area in getting the address right the first time. And by the way, you no longer have half decent satellite images or street view or equivalent to help resolve questionable address results, etc".

So to take one section of this group as an example, you are a small business person that works in the field and you can't find your clients anymore...you're gonna be ticked if you upgraded you software as your device has now become a brick in terms of the functionality you need and use everyday, and you're gonna hold off upgrading your device even if you didn't upgrade your software on your old one.

Take this further, you are now waiting to see what Apple does in response to this bricking of your functionality. If you managed to keep your old device on iOS 5 you still have the old functionality, but now depending on Apple's moves you may or may not consider upgrading devices in the near future. If you upgraded your device's software or bought the new device, now you are in an urgent response point where if Apple doesn't move quickly, you are having to return the device or buy a new one like Android fast to replace that missing functionality.

One more step only, promise. Now take this group that lives and breathes this functionality to the same level as some do social media, and they are facing a frozen software ecosystem where they can't upgrade ever or they lose their maps, or they have had or are having to trend to another device from another ecosystem like Android, Winphone, etc. A large % of this group probably uses more than one device from the same ecosystem (for Apple that might mean iOS devices, Macbooks, iMacs, etc). This group tends to prefer a nice tidy ecosystem of compatible devices that don't requrie a lot of work to keep them talking to each other...if they have to replace one device, over time they are going to trend to replace other devices along the same decision lines.

This too could be a long term hurtful trend to Apple. Apple already lived through this one with iCloud that I lived through in a small business user sense...you could use it in iOS but it did not play well with the Mac OSX or Windows environment for continuity of use and info right out of the box. So people in this same group looking for cloud solutions went elsewhere with their decisions where there were more cohesive architectures (MS Office/Hotmail/Skydrive, Google equivalent, Dropbox plus any email service and office apps, etc) and they relegated iCloud to the same status as Apple Maps flyover...neat, but not much use beyond a little bit of novelty. And this group tends to not to wait a year or to look back at that functionality a year later as they may have waited patiently for it to first come out the first time and expected Apple's "it just works" to apply...when it didn't, time to move on, no second chances as we need it to "just work" in the now, not the far future because we have decisions to make on what we are going to use full-time in the "now" after waiting to this point of time when the later became "now" once already.

Confusing isn't it? LOL...but the essence is if you need something to just work in the now, promising it will work later and by the way your old functionality no longer works in the now is a great way to send people elsewhere without any intention of returning because they have started down another path and have no interest in reversing course yet again after trust is broken.

Anyway, all of this to say its one concern no one seemed to be addressing...those that live by a certain type and level of functionality that is taken away...guess what, they have to move on and aren't likely to wait around for the later as they can't afford to if that functionality impacts them too severely in the now.
 
A solid map application is one of the core functions of a modern Smartphone. The solution presented now is not satisfactory and definitely dampens the usability and value of iOS devices.

IMHO the Maps disaster is the first real challenge for Tim Cook. It will be interesting to witness, how things will unfold in the future and what steps Apple with TC at the steering wheel will take to rectify the situation.

But by looking at the Final Cut X Software as an example, I wouldn't have high hopes, that there will be a fast remedy. Of course, things might be different here, because it seems Apple is focusing on iOS devices a lot more than the Pro Market... :(
 
I have faith they'll get the issues cleared up.

Shouldn't have been there in the first place!

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Apple needs to make a Apple Map Maker so they can get data fixed and added. I feel so bad for the Maps team though.

Why? It wasn't finished and doesn't work...

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I sure hope that during this lockdown they are given access to water fountains and meal vouchers. ;)

And suicide nets!

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I'm amazed they didn't tag it with the "Beta" moniker like they did with SIRI...

Because Maps isn't a gimmick on any mobile device... This is a major muck up
 
Privacy

Its kind of interesting to note, that Apple claims to be all about "privacy", but then gives you options as users requests to share location info with other IOS users.

I don't want my friends knowing where i am i'd call them instead.


Even if i did know other IOS users. The more things become convenient, thy also sneak in, weather users are aware of you revealing info or not, its on..

If would be good requiring Location Service on is NOT required., just to find your location.


This can be done over GPS.. Yes it will take time, but so does GPS in general.. Its nothing to complain about.
 
Did you try zooming in (pinching out) to see more detail. I can see all of the fast food in my area. But I did have to zoom in to see the names. I also see much more like the high school across the street. If you still do not see them then this could be the reason for all of the complaints and at the same time it is working great in my location.

Please report back your results.

Yes, zoomed in and wasn't there. I even added the location for participation. Looked today, and still doesn't show. It does show other businesses in the area. I can only assume that some businesses don't participate with yelp, so they're left off.
 
Great post twolfe81

Unfortunately, the users of the iPhone aren't a homogeneous group. Among us is the group where the Map app for a variety of reasons may be as essential a day-to-day item as phone calling or email or whatever else and the map data may be much more important than new features or functions...when I type in an address it needs to go to the right place first time whether there is a turn-by-turn capability or not. This group can include students going to their first job interview, small business people in the field that go to different client locations for the first time every day (delivery, appraisal, home inspection, delivery, home care, cleaning, etc), people on vacation, visiting, or moving to a new location and trying to find their way around, etc. And the variety of available map data for more than addresses along with the variety of ways to easily get to that data (i.e. link directly from email info to map) and alternate means to examine the data to verify where you are going (satellite pic with good detail, streetview type functions, etc) and not having to pop into a Web browser or a variety of secondary apps (sometimes even more than one) to use maps to find a place only increases this growth in dependence on the reliability of map data to "find" where you want to go and it working properly and neatly (as in Apple's "it just works"). This group has adopted to this way of doing things, so its not frivolous to them whether it works or not...they need it to work "now" and to continue to work "now" since its been working fine since "then" and they've structured their way of working/playing/traveling/etc to that capability

[...]

Anyway, all of this to say its one concern no one seemed to be addressing...those that live by a certain type and level of functionality that is taken away...guess what, they have to move on and aren't likely to wait around for the later as they can't afford to if that functionality impacts them too severely in the now.
Great post. You describe my situation perfectly.

May I quote you in a different forum?
 
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