Apple Issues Statement Over Day 1 'Maps' Glitches, Maps Team Reportedly Under Lockdown to Fix Issues

[KnightWRX]

When Apple started this, they employed some GIS based people. GIS is not cartography. THat was the biggest mistake.

To say Apple were trying to be clever is a joke, they were trying to be cheap.

Read through the blog pointed to earlier by dv8r and myself (taken from another thread on this forum for my part) :

http://blog.telemapics.com/?p=399

Hiring GIS people would have been a good thing actually.

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God damn it, I know I've said it a hundred times, but they have $100bn, why don't they use that bloody money to set up a proper Maps department? Not with 10 employees, but with 100.

Money doesn't buy time yet. Throwing money and people at a problem rarely results in something functional. Some things just require time.

Heck, throwing too much money and people at a problem can actually hinder it as you introduce complexity and conflict in the design. Keeping a small core team and giving them proper time tables is sometimes much more efficient. The problem is it seems Apple rushed Maps out, and they made quite a few poor choices in the actual design of their systems to integrate data from providers and to Quality Check the result (as pointed to in the blog, the mistakes seem to come from automatized testing rather than human testing).

 

[jacobj]

Aren't there dozens of websites dedicated to google map fails? I admit that apple maps aren't as good in some ways as google. However this morning apple maps navigated me to a beach, the location of which I couldn't quite remember. This is on a small island in the English Channel. It's directions were perfect. I just tried it again. I love the turn by turn.

Obviously there are issues with other regions, but for me personally this is a great improvement.

 

[Wasabihound]

Don't feel too bad for them. I'm sure there's a nice bonus for them, when it's all said and done.

Why should they get a bonus for under-delivering and working to achieve what many of us think is NORMAL service.

Isn't a bonus for exceptional service?

 

[KnightWRX]

Why should they get a bonus for under-delivering and working to achieve what many of us think is NORMAL service.

Isn't a bonus for exceptional service?

Because the fault probably doesn't lie with the core team, but rather the project manager/director that built the team in the first place. In fact, at this point, keeping them on "lock down" sounds pretty dumb. The problem probably won't be fixed with a "coding" binge, as its deeper than that. Also, Apple seems to be on a hiring binge for map specialists, which mean "locking down" the core team right now seems counter productive if in the end you're going to bring in other people eventually :

http://www.powerpage.org/2012/09/21/apple-posts-multiple-job-openings-for-ios-6-maps-team/

Apple seems to have erred in the core compentencies required to build the solution in the first place and now need to get the right people in there, not overwork the wrong people who probably did a bang up job trying to get a solution out there, but were obviously in over their heads.

 

[SactoGuy18]

Now that I've updated my iPad 2 to iOS 6.0, I had a chance to play around with the new Maps program.

Potentially, it could be a GREAT mapping program, especially in areas where a lot of map data is already inputed. I've tried it in my home town (Sacramento, California USA) and towns in the San Francisco Bay Area and it does work fairly well.

I do think, however, that Apple should have spent more money to get mapping data in foreign countries. In Japan, there is a company called Mapion that provides excellent maps of that entire country; Apple should have bought mapping information from that company and it would have resulted in maps of Japan that would actually be BETTER than the Google Maps information for Japan. For example, the well-known small city of Onomichi, called by many Japanese "Japan's hometown," is mapped out in Mapion in great detail if you look at this URL:

http://www.mapion.co.jp/m/34.40558389_133.20746389_7/

In short, it's going to take a while for Apple to build up the database for good mapping experience.

 

[Mark Booth]

Aren't there dozens of websites dedicated to google map fails? I admit that apple maps aren't as good in some ways as google. However this morning apple maps navigated me to a beach, the location of which I couldn't quite remember. This is on a small island in the English Channel. It's directions were perfect. I just tried it again. I love the turn by turn.

Obviously there are issues with other regions, but for me personally this is a great improvement.

Some people just don't get it.

The BIG problem with iOS 6's Maps app is NOT the turn-by-turn directions (which is what you obviously used in your example above). It's the POIs (points of interest database) being all screwed up and/or missing SIGNIFICANT landmarks, businesses, parks, airports, etc., etc.

Please read this article by Andy Ihnatko:

http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/15300234-452/story.html

Excerpt from the article:

Here at the end of its first week, I consider Maps’ POI problems to be an embarrassment. If the problem persists to Halloween, then I’ll think of Maps as a failure. And if Apple doesn’t turn Maps around and make it into a reliable, trustworthy resource by the end of the year, then I’ll consider it a fatality.

Mark

 

[b24pgg]

I feel sorry for the team. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple keeps them up for days until they get it fixed.

The problems with Apple Maps can't be fixed in only a matter of days. It will take months, if not years.

 

[Kanunu]

Incredible map!

I do think, however, that Apple should have spent more money to get mapping data in foreign countries. In Japan, there is a company called Mapion that provides excellent maps of that entire country; Apple should have bought mapping information from that company and it would have resulted in maps of Japan that would actually be BETTER than the Google Maps information for Japan. For example, the well-known small city of Onomichi, called by many Japanese "Japan's hometown," is mapped out in Mapion in great detail if you look at this URL:

http://www.mapion.co.jp/m/34.40558389_133.20746389_7/

In short, it's going to take a while for Apple to build up the database for good mapping experience.

WOW!! I don't know a single Japanese letter (Katagana?) but I can tell that is an incredible map. It is looks like a good travel map at the middle zoom level but anyone looking needs to zoom in to 1/1500 level to really appreciate it. Lots of detail, even building by building shapes and sizes and the number scheme too, yet still very readable in the way the items are differentiated. If it is even half this good on an iOS browser, it should be the product of choice there for a while. How well known is this site in Japan?

Yes, it would take years for Apple to develop to that level in Japan and that would be if they hired a huge staff in-country. They certainly can't do that by locking program coders up in Cupertino. What I hear some saying is Apple should have taken some of that pile of cash they have from selling iPhones 1 to 4S and bought overseas companies like this outright or at least developed a very mutually beneficial relationship. I think they are right.

A lot of people have been posting complaining about POI's but this should be the easiest problem for Apple to overcome with user input. However they have no place to lay the POI's onto if they don't have the fundamental cartographic database (i.e. political boundaries both national and local, rivers, roads, road names, the street/building number scheme, and basic traffic info like one-way streets and no turn intersections.) The place to buy a Big Mac or a latte can come later.

 

[samcraig]

The problems with Apple Maps can't be fixed in only a matter of days. It will take months, if not years.

I'm not sure. I think a lot of features will be added over months/years. From what I understand (and I could be wrong) - TomTom is saying that their data is accurate and that it's on Apple's parsing of that data. There could be a "eureka" moment where they figure out they botched some lines of code and/or formula or it could - like you say - takes months before they get maps to a truly usable experience for the majority of people.

 

[iphoneclassic]

I'm not sure. I think a lot of features will be added over months/years. From what I understand (and I could be wrong) - TomTom is saying that their data is accurate and that it's on Apple's parsing of that data. There could be a "eureka" moment where they figure out they botched some lines of code and/or formula or it could - like you say - takes months before they get maps to a truly usable experience for the majority of people.

TomTom gave only base map data which is valid if you are using just for aerial view. You can even get this from public/private/open sources. Lot of cities take aerial maps for tax assessment. They are much detailed than satellite images. WikiMapia is another source.

Problem is every Tier 1 GPS/Navi vendor has additional data to go with their own algorithm.

One cannot buy just base maps and write an algorithm(without supporting data) and expect it to work. Their team probably used SF data all the while, so their algorithm works perfectly for SF. When you apply same algorithm on Hoover Dam it goes haywire.

 

[SactoGuy18]

WOW!! I don't know a single Japanese letter (Katagana?) but I can tell that is an incredible map. It is looks like a good travel map at the middle zoom level but anyone looking needs to zoom in to 1/1500 level to really appreciate it. Lots of detail, even building by building shapes and sizes and the number scheme too, yet still very readable in the way the items are differentiated. If it is even half this good on an iOS browser, it should be the product of choice there for a while. How well known is this site in Japan?

Mapion is not only well-known for its online maps, but they provide mapping information for many GPS navigation units for automobiles sold in the Japanese domestic market (JDM). Mapion's maps are excellent because by giving actual building numbers, this reduces the confusion for finding street addresses in Japan, which can be notoriously difficult because building numbers aren't numbered like they do in the West.

But getting back on topic, I do agree that Apple should have licensed mapping information from a lot more sources to increase mapping accuracy. That's why I said it's a pity Apple didn't license Japanese mapping information from Mapion....

 

[twoodcc]

i'm sure they will fix the major issues soon. as long as it can get me to where i'm going, i'm okay with it

 

[Pilgrim1099]

And none of this happened or was well on it's way to market while Jobs was still alive? What happened to the next few years of products that Jobs had lined up before he passed away? Was Siri Tim's baby? The new Final Cut?

Siri, I believe, was Forstall's idea. He suggested it to Steve and probably to Mr. Cook, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[subsonix]

One cannot buy just base maps and write an algorithm(without supporting data) and expect it to work. Their team probably used SF data all the while, so their algorithm works perfectly for SF. When you apply same algorithm on Hoover Dam it goes haywire.

Are you talking about basic 2d map and it accuracy or the 3d maps?
Because the 3d maps are based on an existing company that they bought.

Here's some existing work by them from 18 months ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnWnpZB_s0g

Hoover dam seems to work here when I tested it in satelite, mixed and standard mode.

 

[KnightWRX]

i'm sure they will fix the major issues soon. as long as it can get me to where i'm going, i'm okay with it

Some people have low standards.

Even with the major issues fixed, as long as their maps remain sub-par compared to what we had on iOS 5, then I'm not really okay with Apple downgrading our experience, especially after touting their stuff as "Advanced".

 

[Pilgrim1099]

Apple had so much tied up on Steve Jobs that they had to spin the "we got enough ideas for x years" - hell some people though he invented, designed and produced it all by himself...

I think he was sick in the end - i don't think he was part of Apples development cycle for a great deal of his last 2 years. There had to be a point where this would show in the way Apple works. The seven inch iPad seems more like a Eddie Cue dream than something Jobs himself was actively pursuing, not that this is a bad thing because Apple needs it's second line to take over.

Jobs was in a different league - compare one of his appearances on All Things D with the one Tim Cook did. Cook is clearly no visionary and no driving force for innovation and i think it's starting to pop up through the cracks at Apple. At this point in the map debacle Steve Jobs would be out there screaming that you should use the eyes in your head and get a life - taking the blame and the flak... Tim Cook threw the team-lead and the team under the bus instead - what a dick move.

I think the reason the first four models up til the 4S were done well was because they had plenty of time to get it right. In fact, by 2006-2007, they had to keep quiet so that they were'nt pressured to get the phone product out there, so they took their time getting it right. But then, it got so popular that pressure was building up where they had to release a new iteration each year.

Maps on the iphone 5 was rushed out in order to cut Google off. Especially iOS 6.

I think next year is going to be extremely difficult for Apple to stay on top in the phone market.

regarding the '5 year plan for ideas', I think it is definitely spin. It is so obvious to me that they were scared *****less that after Steve passed on, they had no idea what to do. They were paralyzed and slowly had to recover back to business in their offices, and eventually had to find their own footing and direction.

But Tim may crack one day and step down. Being CEO of a company is not easy as people think it is.

 

[subsonix]

Being CEO of a company is not easy as people think it is.

It's easy enough to capture in a nutshell in a macrumors post.

 

[AppleScruff1]

iOS maps is a software issue. As for the scratching problem, that's reaching.

No product has 100% satisfaction. None. Do you have evidence that a higher percentage of iPhone 5 purchasers are unhappy with their new phone than were unhappy with the iPhone 4S, or iPhone 4?

Go back a year and read these blogs, and you'll find similar complaints about Siri not understanding them, or not providing information in their location. Go back two years, and you'll find "antenna-gate".

I'm pretty sure if Steve Jobs had been alive back then he would have never allowed those products to be released!

The complaints today or no more or less legitimate than the ones in the past, but they need to be viewed in perspective, which is something that takes time. Will they harm Apple's bottom line the way "antenna-gate" did? The way Siri did? I'm sure Apple hopes so.

They won't hurt Apple's bottom line at all. Even if the phone was a paperweight it would sell in record numbers. No other company has this kink of loyalty.

 

[KnightWRX]

They won't hurt Apple's bottom line at all. Even if the phone was a paperweight it would sell in record numbers. No other company has this kink of loyalty.

It would take a few iterations of the iPhone having major fails for Apple's unit sales to start declining I'm pretty sure. iOS 6 Maps and the "scratching" ? Won't even leave a dent in the sales figures.

 

[iphoneclassic]

Are you talking about basic 2d map and it accuracy or the 3d maps?
Because the 3d maps are based on an existing company that they bought.

Here's some existing work by them from 18 months ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnWnpZB_s0g

Hoover dam seems to work here when I tested it in satelite, mixed and standard mode.

Actual 3D Maps are available for only for tiny portion of US. There is an estimate of 23 years to 3D map just USA. May be they should disable 3D/360 degree rotation where it is not available. Otherwise it just looks like SciFi Channel Venomous Snake View filter.

 

[jacobj]

Some people just don't get it.

The BIG problem with iOS 6's Maps app is NOT the turn-by-turn directions (which is what you obviously used in your example above). It's the POIs (points of interest database) being all screwed up and/or missing SIGNIFICANT landmarks, businesses, parks, airports, etc., etc.

Please read this article by Andy Ihnatko:

http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/15300234-452/story.html

Excerpt from the article:


Mark

You're so keen to be right that you don't read. I wasn't saying there weren't issues, I was sharing my personal experience. There were virtually no POIs for my area on google maps and there are maybe a few more on apple maps. For me this is about functional improvement.

 

[subsonix]

Actual 3D Maps are available for only for tiny portion of US. There is an estimate of 23 years to 3D map just USA. May be they should disable 3D/360 degree rotation where it is not available. Otherwise it just looks like SciFi Channel Venomous Snake View filter.

So what? Do you think that the entire planet needs to be 3d mapped for it to be a useful feature? What is the usefulness of covering uninhabited areas or smaller rural areas compared to larger cities and attractions.

You haven't actually answered the question btw, was your comment directed at the 3d maps or the regular main map? Also, was your comment related to errors in the map or missing features.

 

[iphoneclassic]

So what? Do you think that the entire planet needs to be 3d mapped for it to be a useful feature? What is the usefulness of covering uninhabited areas or smaller rural areas compared to larger cities and attractions.

You haven't actually answered the question btw, was your comment directed at the 3d maps or the regular main map? Also, was your comment related to errors in the map or missing features.

No one is asking for 3D for entire planet. Where is is not available it should be disabled, just like Google Street View. My comment is about Apple trying to have these features using just algorithm.

 

[subsonix]

No one is asking for 3D for entire planet. Where is is not available it should be disabled, just like Google Street View. My comment is about Apple trying to have these features using just algorithm.

Ok, so you want a feature that prevents you from using it by force. I think the main issue people are having is related to the 2d map and lack of information/old information, if not, I don't get most of the criticism frankly.

 

[OTACORB]

Some people have low standards.

Even with the major issues fixed, as long as their maps remain sub-par compared to what we had on iOS 5, then I'm not really okay with Apple downgrading our experience, especially after touting their stuff as "Advanced".

No people have different needs!

If this is such a big problem for you, then you have a choice to make when you buy your next phone. It's pretty simple really!

People need to complain as that will hopefully get Apple to do whatever is necessary. But to expect a new roll out of Maps by Apple to even remotely be on par with Google which has been doing Maps for 10 plus years is crazy.