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Doctor Q said:
My point is that, in arguing for another model, Sony and Warner may be stubborn but they aren't being illogical.

But maybe the tiered pricing model is just an excuse to put the price up, in order to kill iTunes, in order to let their own stores get off the ground. Apple has to be very careful here...

But you're right, I also see no problem with tiered pricing per se.
 
Gil_Grissom said:
This is very good news, even though I'm not in Australia! I'm all for everyone to enjoy iTMS. Everyone should have access to it. I hope it comes through nicely for all you Australians out there! 🙂

Don't forget iTMS New Zealand!
 
I think that's how it should be in the US.

I mean, I'd be happy with a Joy Division song from the 70's costing only 60-70¢ while some new Britney Spears song is like $1.20-1.30 😀
 
How surprising the Australian music executives are haggling over how much they can rip off the public to ensure what ever percentage of people use iTune Music Store will still be compensating for that one less physical cd.

The industry here is a huge rip off to say the least and the irony is the executives get fatter whilst the talent gets lousier.

Given this tiered pricing system (or a ridiculous $1.75 per song) may be close to likely, iTMS here in Australia will probably only be used by the gullible or kids with access to mummy and daddy's wallets.

Buy the original cd I say and just be done with it.
 
This $1.75/song stuff is crap. You and I both know it'll be $2 per song despite the exchange rate being where it is. The US-->Aussie exchange rate certainly isn't 1.75 or 2.0, but Australia charges way too much for music, and the people here don't know any better, so they pay.

And MR always seems to post "iTMS Australia coming (date here)." I say don't post this on Page 1. Post it on Page 2 from now on. I think you guys have gotten it wrong 5-6 times now. It's embarrassing.
 
Since they are no doubt interested in my personal opinion on pricing during these negotiations, I'll remind Apple that I want to be able to trade up from one or more tunes on a given album to the full album, for the difference in price, e.g., pay $7.99 instead of $9.99 to buy Jagged Little Pill if I have already purchased You Oughta Know and Hand in My Pocket individually.

The iTunes Music Store would simply reduce the price of an album at the time of purchase, if you already have any tracks, also purchased from iTMS, from that same album, so no complications are needed in the interface.

I'd spend more, overall, if they had this feature.
 
barneygumble said:
Tiered pricing is good for me because i rarely buy anything new, i only buy older music, all this synthezised stuff is crap anyway.

Synthesized stuff... IS old 😉 how hold is the music u listen to? I like the idea of a tiered pricing structure as well... I'd buy old synth stuff from Depeche Mode, Kraftwerk, The Human League, OMD, Ultravox, Gary Numan, New Order, Front 242, Soft Cell, Duran Duran, Visage, Alphaville, Joy Division and the... <<Insert favorite synth-pop band from the 1980s here>>

🙂
 
Pricing is going to hurt when the likes of Telstra are having periods where all songs are a $ 1AUD.

As for the release date...yawn...maybe...maybe not.
 
winmacguy said:
Don't forget iTMS New Zealand!
Yeah, please, please, please, iTMS NZ please! 🙂

Dude... did you see Fair Go this week? That item on "The thing you should know about your iPOD" was shocking. They couldn't even capitalise iPod correctly. 🙁 Utter anti-Apple propaganda.

They didn't say that:
* All music players with hard drives are fragile.
* That Apple also makes flash based players.

Plus... that kid had obviously dropped his iPod mini... LCDs don't crack like that as a manufacturing fault. He is obviously lying.
 
zv470 said:
Yeah, please, please, please, iTMS NZ please! 🙂

Dude... did you see Fair Go this week? That item on "The thing you should know about your iPOD" was shocking. They couldn't even capitalise iPod correctly. 🙁 Utter anti-Apple propaganda.

Fair Go is the sort of junk that you'd expect from state television. Shame on you for even watching it let alone taking it seriously.

As for the iTMS in New Zealand, I think it's pretty much been concluded that we will get it at the same time as Australia. If Apple are going to incur the legal costs of all these negotiations, then they will want to capitalise on that investment by opening the Music Store up to the biggest market possible. And don't forget that, when people found a back door into the Music Store back in April, they were able to produce error messages containing references to the "New Zealand iTunes Music Store".
 
In addition, we can currently buy "downloads" (eg. QuickTime and iWork) from the Australian online store. Even if there isn't a localised NZ store (although there probably will be, due to the evidence), we will hopefully be able to buy from Australia 🙂
 
DeSnousa said:
Yeah I'm so pumped, however it will be another half a year before I'm 18 and can purchase music as I need to get a credit card. :

You can still use iTMS gift cards, allowances, etc. So it isn't off-limits, but I agree, it is a bit harder to use... no way around it unfortunately.
 
About time.

One thing however...

I have heard .au iTMS rumors so many times in the last months and have learnt not to get my hopes up. KUDOS to Apple if they can finally open the doors.

aussie_geek
 
Copyright??

Well at least the Aus-US FTA was for something! without this, we never would have been able to get this....

at the same time there have been so many rumours about this that i cant become to excited because i no it wil probably not be true 🙁
 
hungryjoe@ said:
Well at least the Aus-US FTA was for something! without this, we never would have been able to get this....

at the same time there have been so many rumours about this that i cant become to excited because i no it wil probably not be true 🙁

What are you talking about? Australian copyright laws have always allowed for an iTMS. The only main difference between our copyright laws and the US is that we don't have a fair use policy.
 
I'm getting a little sick of these rumours. But I can honestly say if the songs cost more than $1.50 each, I won't be buying more than 5 (which will be the novelty factor).
 
feeze said:
What are you talking about? Australian copyright laws have always allowed for an iTMS. The only main difference between our copyright laws and the US is that we don't have a fair use policy.

Yeah, what feeze said. Apple is a company and can do whatever is in the interest of its shareholders. It's not like the US government is telling Apple that they aren't allowed to set up an iTMS- they just haven't wanted to, yet. It should have absolutely nothing to do with the FTA.
 
aussie_geek said:
I have heard .au iTMS rumors so many times in the last months and have learnt not to get my hopes up.

hear hear!
Maybe though I live in hope, or am just living with unrealistic expectations....
that one day we will get iTMS...
one day they might offer higher bit rate songs via iTMS...
one day we will get iPhoto books...
one day Steve might even visit Aust...
and one day I might win Lotto.
 
Doctor Q said:
the value of a song depends mostly on its demand/appeal, which is higher for new releases. So the value of a new song is higher than the value of an old song.

My point is that, in arguing for another model, Sony and Warner may be stubborn but they aren't being illogical.

I disagree.

In the not-so-distant past (about 2000) Sony, Warner and the rest of the "major" record labels now doing business with Apple were sued by 40+ states for violating anti-trust laws by "artificially raising the price of songs" to consumers. In other words, the labels colluded with each other to arbitrarily set the lowest price for CD's that consumers would pay, preventing any discounting at retail and thus bringing the overall market price up. The labels didn't prevail in the suit and ended up settling the case (more on that later).

Prior to setting up the iTunes music store (which, tellingly, was Jobs idea, not the labels) the labels were, at that time, more preoccupied with keeping music off the internet. Jobs eventually convinced them that they could make money selling songs on the net, but the labels hedged the bet. By exposing the iTunes store to just Mac users, the labels felt less threatened from abuse by the small market share compared with Windows. They also felt, according to their sales projections, that the numbers from the upstart iTunes store would be very low, hence, they charged at least .70 for every .99 song sale. This wasn't due to their costs involved in providing iTunes compatible music, Apple does all of the encoding. All the labels needed to do was basically Fed-Ex the existing two-track master for the CD to Apple. So the labels figured if sales were low - and given that they still believed it wouldn't begin to dent the ubiquitousness of free file-shared songs - the absurdly high .70 per song share reflected at least some profitability (remember their cost) from the expected low volume of sales and eventual failure of Jobs' idea.

Apple knew better, but even Apple's most optimistic projections for the iTunes store didn't come close to predicting the almost immediate success of the store. Needless to say, it just blew away the labels expectations. The labels became believers, and thats when "hell froze over." The rest is rather well documented history and 80+ market share compared with other online music store wannabes. Apple did it's homework, and it paid off. Especially for the record companies. Apple initially lost money on the store, then broke even for awhile, and only recently has reported a modest profit specific to song sales from iTunes. In that regard, .70 per song was a huge amount to pay the record companies, and Apple saw the iPod as it's saviour.

The New York Times covered this story regarding the label's interest in variable pricing about a week ago. As it turns out, that's not all they're interested in. It seems the labels have become a little envious of Apple's iPod success now, and feel (God knows why) that maybe they should see a part of that action too. It's just amazing. The head of Sony Records mentioned that Apple sees two "revenue streams;" one from iTunes music store sales (what?), and one from the iPod. His next breath was to mention that Sony only sees one revenue stream, just from the music store. Then he says that revenue stream is so small "it would take a medical professional" to find it. This, on the heels of Apple's announcement that it sold over a half billion songs. Not to mention that Sony, in particular, is also involved in online sales and portable devices and is selling it's Sony label songs there. So I count three "revenue streams" One lucrative one from Apple (Sony's share of a half billion songs sold at .70 per song net profit) and two revenue streams from it's music store and portable players, which probably do need a surgeon to find any profit from those.

So if Job's doesn't want to be the labels's new partner in the latest price fixing scam, then perhaps he will fork over a percentage of iPod revenue. It's just amazing, expecially after Jobs (and no one else) saved their ass when the net looked, to them, like this: 😕

All in all, my problem with the record companies is that they are serial liars. Despite the phenomenal success of iTunes, the online music business is still very much in it's infancy and expansion - as Australians (among others) will attest. Apple has established the undisputed (in terms of market share) formula for success, which includes song pricing. Customers know the price of songs before they even log on to the music store. Changing the formula now, at this early stage of development, risks changing how purchasing music on the net is perceived. And since raising prices without justification is never perceived well, the former method off obtaining music on the net may enjoy a newfound renaissance. You don't need to be an economist to figure that out.

By the way, part of the settlement for the labels' antitrust suit called for them to donate CD's to public libraries in the states bringing suit. What did the labels do? They ended up unloading hundreds of copies of CDs from unknowns, artists that never sold, and stuff from their back catalog they couldn't sell. In other words, junk. In most cases, it was hundreds of copies of the same worthless CD. And yes the libraries complained, and ended up tossing almost all of what was the labels "settlement"

Nice guys, huh? 😡
 
Doctor Q said:
Since they are no doubt interested in my personal opinion on pricing during these negotiations, I'll remind Apple that I want to be able to trade up from one or more tunes on a given album to the full album, for the difference in price, e.g., pay $7.99 instead of $9.99 to buy Jagged Little Pill if I have already purchased You Oughta Know and Hand in My Pocket individually.

The iTunes Music Store would simply reduce the price of an album at the time of purchase, if you already have any tracks, also purchased from iTMS, from that same album, so no complications are needed in the interface.

I'd spend more, overall, if they had this feature.

Makes sense, but do you really see the record labels compensating Apple back for this difference? If not, then it would simply be a way for Apple to lose money. After all, if you buy a CD single, do you expect to get a rebate from the record label if you want to subsequently purchase the album? At least you get the 30 sec samples to decide if you want the album or selected tracks.
 
VanNess, your post was quite informative and interesting, but I'm confused about one thing. I said new songs are worth more to consumers than old songs and that therefore tiered pricing isn't illogical. I could certainly be wrong, but I can't tell what part of my claim you are disagreeing with.

Loge said:
Makes sense, but do you really see the record labels compensating Apple back for this difference? If not, then it would simply be a way for Apple to lose money. After all, if you buy a CD single, do you expect to get a rebate from the record label if you want to subsequently purchase the album? At least you get the 30 sec samples to decide if you want the album or selected tracks.
It's hard for me to say what the business deal would be because I don't know what the current arrangement is. What does Apple pay the record label when I buy a 15-track album for $9.99? There are albums with various prices, some equivalent to $0.99 times the number of tracks and some cheaper, so we already have a form of tiered pricing for albums.

I can give you a partial answer. When I buy a few songs I like from an album, I'm unlikely to ever buy the album because I'd be paying for those songs twice. If that problem was removed, I'd upgrade tunes to albums now and then, and my net spending would increase. If I'm not unusual in this respect, then Apple and the record label together would make more money overall, and they could split it anyway they like.
 
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