Apple iTV Impressions and Details

[sparkleytone]

I haven't read this entire thread, so this might have been said already...I just wanted to point out that "hard drive" is an extremely generic term when it comes to layman's terms regarding computers. The corporate environment is full of less than technical users who don't know the difference between USB and Firewire, let alone what exactly a hard drive is. I have users that refer to the entire COMPUTER as the "hard drive". There is a very good chance that Iger knows very little about computers and could simply be miscommunicating what he means.

 

[Thanatoast]

Why in the world are so many people complaining about the lack of a DVR and DVD?

In the case of the DVR, what the heck are you people watching? The last time I saw cable (Dish Network) there were over two hundred channels, and not one thing I wanted to see. I'd much rather pay for a season pass for the one or two shows worth watching than around $60 for cable + Tivo every month.

Yes, I know, that puts me outside the norm. But I can use the time to read a book, cook a good meal, or go running/work out. All better uses of time than sitting in front of entertainment programing that is 1/3 ads and 2/3 not worth watching.

As for the DVD player issue, Apple wants you to buy your movies from them. They neither need nor want a DVD player on this device. If you already own a movie on DVD, rip it for goodness' sake. Large collections of DVD's look impressive, but really all they do is take up space.

My conclusion: drop the cable + Tivo - save money, time and brain cells. Only watch the content you're willing to pay for rather than letting Hollywood/Madison Ave shove whatever they wish down your throat while you slowly vegetate.

/soapbox

 

[rjfiske]

In the case of the DVR, what the heck are you people watching? The last time I saw cable (Dish Network) there were over two hundred channels, and not one thing I wanted to see. I'd much rather pay for a season pass for the one or two shows worth watching than around $60 for cable + Tivo every month.

Yes, I know, that puts me outside the norm. But I can use the time to read a book, cook a good meal, or go running/work out. All better uses of time than sitting in front entertainment programing that is 1/3 ads and 2/3 not worth watching.

/soapbox

I'm not sure I understand your question/comment. You say that a DVR isn't worth it because there are too many channels, and then you say that you don't want to watch advertisements. You seem to be against TV in general, which is fine. However...

The purpose of a DVR answers both of your initial concerns. That is, we have a DVR BECAUSE there's so many channels and BECAUSE there is so many ads. We can watch a 1hr program in 40 minutes, whenever we want, however we want. (don't even get me started on Football games). This (not surprisingly) frees up a tremendous amount of time where we can read, cook, work out, etc. Not once in our 2.5yrs of having TIVO have we had to say, "Sorry we can't do that because 'Survivor' is starting in 5 minutes". There's where the real value of a DVR comes into play. Just my opinion.

 

[mostman]

The iTV makes the elgato eyetv hybrid even more appealing.

http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetvhybridna

Use it to record your shows and then stream it to the iTV.

-bye bye comcast DVR.



what about calling it the iStream (ha)

Well.... not quite.

You see the ElGato stuff does not decode digital channels. Not only that, they can't even control your Comcast cable box to tell it to change the channel. So any channel that is digital (>125) you are going to have to manually change before recording.

Sound appealing? No, of course not.

This is the reason solutions like ElGato have not really caught on yet. Add a cable card system and its game over.

-Mike

 

[nsjoker]

it won't have any dvr functionality... it'll just be frontrow on your tv, and nothing else. woopdee freaking doo

 

[mostman]

it won't have any dvr functionality... it'll just be frontrow on your tv, and nothing else. woopdee freaking doo

Its an Airport Express for Video. Simple as that.

And I think you are significantly misunderstanding how much impact on the market a device like this will have. This is the way to marry the television to your digital content. People don't want a PC in the living room - but they do want to see their photos, watch their videos and listen to their music on their couch - using their television as a display.

These things will sell like crazy. Without DVR functionality. Remember, the DVR market is still small. Small enough to call 'fledgling'. Apple is nothing if not smart about taking proven market verticals and cleaning them up for the consumer. Small steps.

-Mike

 

[Bonte]

its more than just Airport Express for Video, its a TV tunes via the internet and the home network.

Media distribution will be reinvented and specifically tailored to the iTV and its internet capability's. WebTV streamed to the iTV, podcasts will get better quality because its more then the iPod now. I think the preview that Steve gave us was necessary to get content with the launch of the product and maybe even hardware solutions that work with iTV.

Maybe Apple is negotiating with the digital TV providers to offer iTV as an option to there customers, bigger HD and protected content can make this work.

 

[p0intblank]

I'm really hoping this is the iPod all over again. In other words, I hope all the naysayers here get proved wrong and the iTV becomes the new toy everyone has to have in their house.

Apple needs to market this, by the way. Guaranteed there are tons of households willing to purchase this just to play photo slideshows on their TVs. I hope Apple can get the message across. I want as many people possible to recognize what a great product this is going to be.

 

[Clive At Five]

I just wanted to point out that "hard drive" is an extremely generic term when it comes to layman's terms regarding computers. [...] I have users that refer to the entire COMPUTER as the "hard drive". There is a very good chance that Iger knows very little about computers and could simply be miscommunicating what he means.

I whole-heartedly agree.

I find it higly unlikely that there's a physical Hard Drive in the box that amounts to anything more than the UI and/or chache/buffer.

There's absolutely no need and would complicate the equation indefinitely, especially concerning digital rights.

Let's assume Iger is right, though, that there IS a HDD in the TelePort (or as you infidels call it, iTV), and that it can act as a stand-alone media access point. The question remains, how would you be able to get media onto it? Either 1) it comes with some sort of operating system which allowed you to connect it to iTS for content, or 2) it could be detected by a Mac or PC as a computer/HD over the network in order to drag-n-drop media.

Option 1, I think, is too far-fetched and risky. There would be substantial reliability issues using HDs that small to run an OS. We've all heard many nightmare-ish stories about people trying to bring their home computer to work, booting via iPod. Nonetheless, this seems like the most likely option for the use of a HDD.

Option 2, if this is the case, you already have a full-sized (i.e. reliable) HDD in your computer, which is connected to the internet, (i.e. iTS) for content. Why would you even need a HD in the box? Basically, Apple would be spending money on MicroDrives which don't have a reliable life-span and take up valuable space inside the box and for what? So that you can have an identical copy of a 1GB movie on both your Mac and your iTV box? As long as streaming works, there's no need. As long as streaming works, there's no need. As long as streaming works, there's no need!

PLUS, with iTunes DRM, you are limited to the number of copies you can make on devices you own. So an HD in the iTV would eat up one of those copies for any of the media you would choose to load onto it.

I do think, however, it would be likely to allow it to connect to .Mac, although streaming from the net is slower than from within an internal network... and on top of that, I don't know many people who store full-length, full-quality movies in their .Mac storage. In fact, I don't know any.

So, that's why I think there will be no HDD in the TelePort.

-Clive

 

[Peace]

I whole-heartedly agree.

I find it higly unlikely that there's a physical Hard Drive in the box that amounts to anything more than the UI and/or chache/buffer.

There's absolutely no need and would complicate the equation indefinitely, especially concerning digital rights.

Let's assume Iger is right, though, that there IS a HDD in the TelePort (or as you infidels call it, iTV), and that it can act as a stand-alone media access point. The question remains, how would you be able to get media onto it? Either 1) it comes with some sort of operating system which allowed you to connect it to iTS for content, or 2) it could be detected by a Mac or PC as a computer/HD over the network in order to drag-n-drop media.

Option 1, I think, is too far-fetched and risky. There would be substantial reliability issues using HDs that small to run an OS. We've all heard many nightmare-ish stories about people trying to bring their home computer to work, booting via iPod. Nonetheless, this seems like the most likely option for the use of a HDD.

Option 2, if this is the case, you already have a full-sized (i.e. reliable) HDD in your computer, which is connected to the internet, (i.e. iTS) for content. Why would you even need a HD in the box? Basically, Apple would be spending money on MicroDrives which don't have a reliable life-span and take up valuable space inside the box and for what? So that you can have an identical copy of a 1GB movie on both your Mac and your iTV box? As long as streaming works, there's no need. As long as streaming works, there's no need. As long as streaming works, there's no need!

PLUS, with iTunes DRM, you are limited to the number of copies you can make on devices you own. So an HD in the iTV would eat up one of those copies for any of the media you would choose to load onto it.

I do think, however, it would be likely to allow it to connect to .Mac, although streaming from the net is slower than from within an internal network... and on top of that, I don't know many people who store full-length, full-quality movies in their .Mac storage. In fact, I don't know any.

So, that's why I think there will be no HDD in the TelePort.

-Clive

That makes no sense at all..

In order to even view and/or listen to any media from another computer it needs a front row interface.That interface must be on the component itself.So in order for front row to run it must have some kind of O/S built into it.

 

[greenstork]

Just thought I'd add some tidbits to the DVR discussion. As a few others have pointed out, El Gato and others don't do digital cable content. Digital cable is encoded and the only way to decode it currently is with a cable company set-top box or a CableCARD.

Any device that is capable of accepting a CableCARD must be certified by CableLabs, which is setup and run by all of the cable companies.

CableLabs certified CableCARD devices go through a rigorous certification process. There are a handful of televisions certified and only one DVR, the TiVo Series 3. Windows Media Centers have been waiting for CableCARDs for years but CableLabs won't certify Media Center PCs until Vista comes out, with it's much stronger DRM. Because OS X's/Quicktime's DRM just isn't that difficult to hack, it's going to be a long time before we see a CableCARD capable device working in or alongside a Mac. In other words, Macs won't be recording a digital TV stream for a couple of years at least.

Sure, you could hook up a set-top box to your Mac but then the signal has been converted from digital to analog, back to digital again. Also, you have no control over the channel unless you implement some IR blaster device or something. And that solution is far from easy to use, I'll stick with my TiVo for high definition dual channel recording.

 

[greenstork]

its more than just Airport Express for Video, its a TV tunes via the internet and the home network.

Media distribution will be reinvented and specifically tailored to the iTV and its internet capability's. WebTV streamed to the iTV, podcasts will get better quality because its more then the iPod now. I think the preview that Steve gave us was necessary to get content with the launch of the product and maybe even hardware solutions that work with iTV.

Maybe Apple is negotiating with the digital TV providers to offer iTV as an option to there customers, bigger HD and protected content can make this work.

Digital TV providers have absolutely no incentive to use an Apple branded box. They make a lot of revenue on rental of their own set-top boxes that have the ability to play their pay-per-view content. Apple is the competition and they still hold all of the cards (TV content monopoly).

 

[milo]

In essence, the mac mini can do ALL OF THAT, plus more, minus the ability to go out via HDMI. If apple just upgraded FRONT ROW to the quality of the iTV user interface, you have an iTV right there on the mac mini!

And it will cost twice what the iTV costs.

People aren't willing to pay that much for a settop box. Game over. Product dead.

it won't have any dvr functionality... it'll just be frontrow on your tv, and nothing else.

And that's exactly what I want. I don't want to pay for extra crap that I don't need.

 

[sparkleytone]

Digital TV providers have absolutely no incentive to use an Apple branded box. They make a lot of revenue on rental of their own set-top boxes that have the ability to play their pay-per-view content. Apple is the competition and they still hold all of the cards (TV content monopoly).

I think you underestimate Apple's amazing sales pitch:

"Hey look! Free money!"

 

[emotion]

In other words, Macs won't be recording a digital TV stream for a couple of years at least.

Unless you're in Europe and you can get Digital Terrestrial TV (DTT). In the UK this is known as Freeview.

The fact that regions differ will mean it's unlikely Apple will go that route.

 

[joemama]

it won't have any dvr functionality... it'll just be frontrow on your tv, and nothing else. woopdee freaking doo

Well said. This product will NOT sell (after the initial "craze") if there is no DVR functionality. People (general mass of people not macrumors folk) are not ready to pay for individual TV shows. People love DVRs because they can record, watch later and skip commercials.

In the future when Apple has such a stronghold on the cable industry that companies are forced to move to a pay-per-channel (a-la-carte) system, then sure, but not right now.

DVR is where it is at for the moment. Apple is going to miss the boat. Apple having an iTV does not make me want to buy TV shows. It simply makes me not want to buy an iTV.

 

[Peace]

Well said. This product will NOT sell (after the initial "craze") if there is no DVR functionality. People (general mass of people not macrumors folk) are not ready to pay for individual TV shows. People love DVRs because they can record, watch later and skip commercials.

In the future when Apple has such a stronghold on the cable industry that companies are forced to move to a pay-per-channel (a-la-carte) system, then sure, but not right now.

DVR is where it is at for the moment. Apple is going to miss the boat. Apple having an iTV does not make me want to buy TV shows. It simply makes me not want to buy an iTV.

And I guess this is why Disney sold 125,000 movies the first week and Apple has sold millions of TV shows right?*

 

[gugy]

I think the ITV just needs to be able to stream video (HDTV and standard), Photos and music.
My Mac is the hub, a place where I can record my TV shows using elgato and then stream it to ITV. Use itunes to buy movies, tv shows and music and then stream it to my ITV.

Simplicity is the key. I don't need ITV to have a superdrive or DVD. I have that on my Mac. Plus everybody nowadays have their own DVD player on the entertainment room. I have Laserdisc player, CD player, VHS, dishnetwork DVR and a receiver. I am not planning to get rid of anything.

ITV will be a nice addition to my entertainment system to do a single specific thing: Talk to my Mac on the other room wirelessly or by Ethernet. That's all folks.

 

[nsjoker]

either i'm missing the point of this iTV thing or people in america have ridiculous amounts of money to throw away and are willing to pay for tv shows which are free so they can stream them to their iTV box and watch them that way. it's a super efficient way to burn money, but not to watch tv shows. dvr please.

i mean.. i do understand people want frontrow on their tv's, but it seems like an inital craze thing. i'm not going to completely knock this product though, because if anything it's a starting point for apple to infiltrate your living room, and then releasing dvr functionality in the future. we'll see.

 

[Clive At Five]

That makes no sense at all..

In order to even view and/or listen to any media from another computer it needs a front row interface.That interface must be on the component itself.So in order for front row to run it must have some kind of O/S built into it.

That's why I said this:

I find it higly unlikely that there's a physical Hard Drive in the box that amounts to anything more than the UI and/or chache/buffer.

Read more carefully.

-Clive

 

[joemama]

And I guess this is why Disney sold 125,000 movies the first week and Apple has sold millions of TV shows right?*

Please read more carefully next time. I was talking about TV and cable companies - not movies. Two completely different mediums.

And I prefaced my message with "after the initial buying rush." Of course they sold a lot of movies in the first week.

 

[TomSmithMacEd]

I read most of the comments and I cannot believe anyone else talked about the wonderful little program known as handbrake.

Take your dvd's (or ones you rent... I know it's illegal) rip them.. put them on iTunes

Have a server full of dozens/hundreds of dvd's that you can access at anytime through your iTV.

I know it's not the most practicle way of doing this, but it is what I'll be doing if I purchase an iTV.

 

[Electro Funk]

I don't think it would make sense to make a totally great™ device and then cripple it by excluding DVR functionality (IMO they already crippled it by excluding DVD player)

i am glad there is not a dvd player included... now if it was bluray or HD DVD (even an upconverting player that scaled to 720p or 1080I) that would be a whole nother story... but, if it was just your run of the mill 480p dvd then i dont want to pay extra for it... i already have 3 dvd players and a samsung upconverting dvd player...

 

[EricNau]

Steve Jobs claimed the iTV "completed the picture," but it does nothing of the sort (based on already revealed features). In reality there is still a hole large enough to fly a 747 through.

We need a way to record our own TV shows from our cable subscription. If Apple expects us to drop our cable/dish and buy everything from the iTS, they are sadly mistaken...

In fact, the average american could not afford to cancel their cable subscription and buy their shows from the iTS. Consider this: the average cable bill is approximately $55 in the US for unlimited TV. This means for the same price you could buy about 25 episodes every month from the iTS. Let's say you watch The Daily Show, that is all you could watch.

The average bill for a family of four would well exceed $150 a month if everything was bought from iTunes.


Apple needs a wake up call.

 

[Clive At Five]

We need a way to record our own TV shows from our cable subscription.

Is that legal? If it's not - even if it's blurry - Apple won't do it.

Secondly, if Apple allows you to do that, then you wouldn't buy content from the iTS. That's not what Apple wants.

-Clive