Apple iTV Impressions and Details

[Dr.Gargoyle]

iTV is a great product. If you want a DVR, buy a DVR, if you want the next level of streaming, iTV is it. I already use Airtunes alot. It is hooked up to my stereo. Anytime I'm out in the yard or having a BBQ, I just plug in the Express and some speakers out back and stream music there.

I personally don't buy tv shows and movies, but I like the idea of being able to code anything video into iTunes and view it on my tv along with slideshows, music, trailers.

I might buy the iTV when it finally arrives. It really depends on what I can do with it. Right now it feels slightly anemic to me. It is more or less just a beefed-up Airport Extreme.
The iTV would be much more appealing to me if Apple offered a TV-tuner in it (BTO or third party). If not, well...

 

[PDubNYC]

actually... he doesn't indicate a HD... why? well the iTV (sorry, not really impressed with this name) streams media from your mac/pc trough wifi or ethernet... so if you buy an episode on iTunes... it will be stored in your iTunes library on the content-hosting mac/pc in your house and thus be available for iTV to play on your TV...

since it has a USB port I guess it will be possible to attach a USB HD... and store files locally instead of on a remote mac/pc...

From the linked article:
"He said: "It can also stream it live through the box to the TV or it has a small hard drive on it so they can download what you put on the device on your computer, on your iTunes, through the television set."

Sounds to me like he is very much indeed indicating that it has a hard drive. And iTV is a temporary name. Damn, you've got all of those computers, yet you are still so misinformed.

 

[roland.g]

This is good news. When they announced it, I was pretty convinced they weren't talking about a box that required an additional computer, although USB storage or a dedicated server box seemed likely based upon the absense of evidence for an in-built hard disk.

So it's actually confirmed it can be used standalone. The missing piece is complete. This is iTunes for the rest of us. For those who don't want cable, who want to be able to subscribe to (and fund) specific TV shows and order movies on demand, this is for you. No computer required. Go home, flop on the couch, and watch what you want. Want something more powerful? Well, it'll integrate with your computers and presumably if someone wants to create devices that export iTunes libraries, like some sort of networked DVR, then it'll work with that too.

Wonderful. This deserves to be a success.

what r u talking about

 

[ready2switch]

What do you thnk the iTV offers that a Mini doesn't? I'm not sure it offers anything other than freeing the Mini so it can be used as a computer in front of a computer monitor somewhere else (which is apparently Jobs' view of where a computer should be).

I might have the wrong end of the stick though.

That's pretty much my question too. The iTV is a mini without DVD, storage, OS, or advanced interface? I guess I just don't see a market for this at $300. Waste of time, unless I'm missing something.

 

[echeck]

That's pretty much my question too. The iTV is a mini without DVD, storage, OS, or advanced interface? I guess I just don't see a market for this at $300. Waste of time, unless I'm missing something.

But I don't need DVD, storage or an OS. Why would I want to spend $600 when I can spend $300 on exactly what I need/want?

 

[Peace]

Recently TIVO sued Dishnetwork and others for patent infringements on the way TV is recorded via PVR and won.Dishnetwork got an injunction to stop it temporarily while it is being appealed.


Thats point one..

MPEG-2 is now mainly being used on DVD's.Dishnetwork,DirectTV and some cable companies have gone to MPEG-4/H264 for content delivery.Especially high def content.

Thats point 2..

iTV Britain isn't the only broadcaster using that name.Dishnetwork also has a channel.100 I believe.The interactive channel that has games,news and a store called iTV..It's a Zoom Network entity.Same company that brings most High Definition to Dishnetwork.


It is my contention that the purpose of the USB/Ethernet ports on back serve multiple purposes including future connectivity for Dishnetwork through the MacMedia Center.

And I still find it very hard believing Bob Iger had no idea about whats in* this box.It means literally millions of dollars to him.I'm quit sure Steve Jobs demonstrated it to him in his house.Informing him about the hard drive.

 

[fixyourthinking]

Long term Apple fans will remember that Apple almost launched an Apple Set Top Box years ago but it was never officially released. Interestingly, the system was described as "Apple's ITV system" in a press-release, indicating that Apple has recycled this codename (iTV). The final name for the upcoming system has not yet been decided.

Ironically the set top box was "field tested" at Disneyland in California. It was going to be a movie/cableTV and shopping kiosk in your hotel room via your TV.

I own several of these boxes and the hard drives contained videos of Disneyland and shopping.

 

[Mike Teezie]

I'm buying this thing the day it drops.

Being able to stream iPhoto slideshows wirelessly to a big TV for clients is going to be wonderful.

 

[roland.g]

I'm quit sure Steve Jobs demonstrated it to him in his house.Informing him about the hard drive.

I want to get invited to Steve's house for a BBQ. I'll bring the beer if he supplies the Apples.

 

[emotion]

That's pretty much my question too. The iTV is a mini without DVD, storage, OS, or advanced interface? I guess I just don't see a market for this at $300.

I do, it's like an ipod for video. Or more like maybe airtunes. Anyway. Read the whole thread I think some people get it.

I think I understand what Apple is getting at here. Not sure I'll buy one but they might be on to something

 

[wkhahn]

What to do with a HDD

The obvious uses for a HDD to be included in the iTV have been discussed fairly extensivly. I'll try not to rehash anything, and all appologies if I do without giving credit. On to the point.

Apple is in the hardware business. They make software and provided services to generate sales and lock you into thier hardware. They make like $.01 per song; maybe $.50 a movie. So why do it? So we'll buy a new iPod/computer every few years. The same holds true for iTV. Its hardware. Apple will include anything if it makes the hardware purchase more compelling. So why the HDD in iTV? For ALL the obvious reasons. Maybe they partition an 80GB iPod drive; say 10, 10 and 60. 10GB for a "rental" service downloaded straignt to the new box. They are locked to the box and once its full you can't rent anything else without returning something. 10GB for a streaming cache from your computer. And 60GB for PRV use. Why not?

 

[emotion]

The obvious uses for a HDD to be included in the iTV have been discussed fairly extensivly. I'll try not to rehash anything, and all appologies if I do without giving credit. On to the point.

Apple is in the hardware business. They make software and provided services to generate sales and lock you into thier hardware. They make like $.01 per song; maybe $.50 a movie. So why do it? So we'll be a new iPod/computer/iTV every few years. The same holds true for iTV. Its hardware. Apple will include anything if it makes the hardware purchase more compelling. So why the HDD in iTV? For ALL the obvious reasons. Maybe they partition an 80GB iPod drive; say 10, 10 and 60. 10GB for a "rental" service downloaded straignt to the new box. 10GB for a streaming cache from your computer. And 60GB for PRV use. Why not?

You might have a point here but at that price point I suspect a 30GB HD and no PVR use. The HD could be used for caching and PPV/rental movies though.

 

[Bonte]

Because that ties the computer to your TV (see my post about teetering keyboards above). This way you can have the computer and still display stuff conveniently on the TV, wirelessly.

With FrontRow on the Mini it can act as a hub for the other computers in the network and play the movies via iTunes streaming.

 

[Blackcat]

No tv inputs on the iTV. No DVR capability. Please stop "wishing", "hoping", "suggesting."

Perhaps, a SECOND device could perform this, but it's not what the $300 no service fee device is for. It's for conveniently streaming content from the computer to a TV that can be watched from the couch. It fills the desire of many people, but not all. (Nor should it try to be everything to everyone. That's part of what makes it an Apple product, like it or not.)

But EyeHome, Neuston MC500 and lots of others already do this. My EyeHome happily squirts anything on my Macs on to my TV or Hifi and lets me browse the web too.

Why is iTV special?

 

[emotion]

With FrontRow on the Mini it can act as a hub for the other computers in the network and play the movies via iTunes streaming.

Yeah but a Mini costs £400 (and up to £600 when properly equipped) and this will cost £200 or less.

 

[bommai]

Ponderings on a home theatre solution

Mac Mini vs iTV as a pure home theatre component

Mac Mini advantages:

1) DVD drive to play movies
2) ATSC/NTSC tuner capability through eyeTV Hybrid - DVR solution. Can pause live TV, schedule recording using remote in living room
3) Onboard storage / External HD support through USB/Firewire
4) Front Row alternatives such as Media Central - Google video, You Tube, IPTV support
5) Leopard update should bring Front Row feature parity with iTV (guess!). Front Row already supports Bonjour - so you can still have a media server from which you stream data from
6) Enough horsepower to play 1080P H.264 as well as MPEG2 TS.
7) Could hookup an iSight for video chat in the living room. Could enhance frontrow so it pauses media if somebody is calling with iChat.

Mac Mini Disadvantages

1) No component video output. I have a HDTV (5 year old) that has only component video input. No HDMI/DVI.
2) DVI output may not support HDCP and might prevent future HDTV files from not displaying properly in 1080P (guess!)
3) Might run into trouble connecting DVI output to DVI/HDMI input on TV in certain cases. Not all TV models work properly with respect to scan rate, etc.
4) Is still a computer and might need keyboard and mouse to make it work for things like software update, etc. Can you VNC or ARD from another compute.r
5) Price - more expensive than iTV. But the extra features could justify it.


iTV advantages

1) Meant for a home theatre/living room. No need for keyboard/mouse
2) Component/HDMI guarantees modern TV connectivity.
3) Price. Most people already have a DVD player, so why duplicate that?
4) Stability. Stripped down functionality means less clunky feel.

iTV disadvantages

1) No TV tuner support (eyeTV hybrid no go on iTV). eyeTV on another computer defeats the purpose of pausing live TV.
2) Not clear if you can buy media through iTV.
3) Other front row like programs such as Media Central won't be supported.


iTV suggestions.

I think Apple should make a home theatre edition of Mac Mini. Let it look just like the Mac Mini but make it have all the advantages of the iTV as well as the Mac Mini. Sell it for the same price as Mac Mini. The traditional Mac Mini can be used as a general purpose computer while the Mac Mini Home Theatre edition can have the following:

1) HDMI/Component output
2) Support for eyeTV Hybrid inside Front Row. Recorded shows can have a mini store - Apple can try to sell you TV episodes that you missed or episodes just like it.
3) Front Row equivalent to iTV
4) Stripped Down OS X - cannot use as general purpose computer
5) Enough HD space for internal eyeTV storage - expandable with external USB HD. Firewire could be left out if it saves money
6) iSight support built into Frontrow.
7) Bonjour support just like today.
8) YouTube, Google video and the likes.


A good media center on the PC side costs $1500 and up (a generic tower PC does not make a media centre). $600 is not bad for the Mac Mini Media Centre edition even though you might have to spend more money adding HD, eyeTV hybrid, etc.

 

[bommai]

But EyeHome, Neuston MC500 and lots of others already do this. My EyeHome happily squirts anything on my Macs on to my TV or Hifi and lets me browse the web too.

Why is iTV special?

eyeHome does not support HD and it never will. I got this in an email directly from Elgato. That is the biggest difference. Also, the general consensus is that eyeHome is not in the same league of robustness/intuitiveness as other elgato products or Apple products. eyeHome cannot even play back eyeTV 500 , eyeTV Hybrid recordings.

 

[wkhahn]

You might have a point here but at that price point I suspect a 30GB HD and no PVR use. The HD could be used for caching and PPV/rental movies though.

I was going to ask why not a PRV, but realized it myself. While apple does not prevent you from loading music you have aquired through other means onto your iPod, they don't help you either. They don't help you buy CD's because its too broad an experience to simplfy. Same with the PVR. How a customer aquires content from a provider varies too much for apple to engineer an simple solution. But they can provide their own simple content delivery solution.

Next, they need to provide an NAS for all your media either from the store, ripped from disc or created yourself. Move the media off the computer.

 

[Peace]

eyeHome does not support HD and it never will. I got this in an email directly from Elgato. That is the biggest difference. Also, the general consensus is that eyeHome is not in the same league of robustness/intuitiveness as other elgato products or Apple products. eyeHome cannot even play back eyeTV 500 , eyeTV Hybrid recordings.

EyeHome uses 480P and upscales to 720P..There is no high def in the EyeHome.

 

[Blackcat]

eyeHome does not support HD and it never will. I got this in an email directly from Elgato. That is the biggest difference. Also, the general consensus is that eyeHome is not in the same league of robustness/intuitiveness as other elgato products or Apple products. eyeHome cannot even play back eyeTV 500 , eyeTV Hybrid recordings.

But nobody will be downloading HD for iTV, so that's a moot point. From what I've seen so far it actually does less than other media streamers.

 

[milo]

This must be a US-centric view. Here (UK) PVRs with twin Freeview (DTT) tuners and 80GB HDs are everywhere. And they are very cheap now (120 quid upwards).

I'm thinking of ditching my cable provider (NTL, I only get it for Sky One, which is just Simpsons repeats) and going with something like this:

http://www.topfield.co.uk/terrestrialequipment.htm

Apparently you can DL what you record to your Mac (USB). I suspect you'll then be able to play that on iTV.

Looks like a cool box, but still pretty expensive, $525 USD. And I assume not available in the USA. Anyone know what the cheapest PVR you can buy in the states is?

The only differences between a Mini and iTV are the connections on the back, better wireless speed and no DVD. Its pure the price and software that makes it a media device and not a computer.

And the fact that you can't use the iTV as a computer! The iPod can play audio and video like a mini can, does that make the iPod "a cut down mini" too?

If I have a mini, couldn't I use it as an iTV with frontrow? Why would I get an iTV when I can get a refirb mini for $200 more, when it can do more?

Because it's $200 more. And this is just the initial pricing, as time goes on the iTV will get cheaper faster than computers do.

I'm wondering why they couldn't/wouldn't just combine the mini and the iTV into a single unit. The mini's size could allow for a DVD slot/player/burner and maybe even allow for the Mac OS in the box, so you don't need another computer to stream your media from. In fact, I assumed that was what the Mini was ultimately destined for anyway.

Because it would be way more expensive than $200, with little chance of prices dropping much.

Since iTV most likely wont be a DVR device, I coughed up $700 today for a Sony DVR instead.
I am sure Apple has a brilliant plan for the iTV, but I fail to see it.

Well, the first step of the plan is to cost less than $700. At that price, the technology will never be anything more than a niche.

because everything on cable is available at itunes. your analogy is wrong.

He was talking about the future of iTunes/iTV. Who's to say that someday everything on cable won't be on iTunes?

 

[bretm]

I was going to ask why not a PRV, but realized it myself. While apple does not prevent you from loading music you have aquired through other means onto your iPod, they don't help you either. They don't help you buy CD's because its too broad an experience to simplfy. Same with the PVR. How a customer aquires content from a provider varies too much for apple to engineer an simple solution. But they can provide their own simple content delivery solution.

Next, they need to provide an NAS for all your media either from the store, ripped from disc or created yourself. Move the media off the computer.

?? TiVo will provide you a PVR that burns DVDs, has a tuner and hard drive, and wirelessly connects to your macintosh and plays your photo library and itunes for $300 plus you have to buy a usb network reciever for like $25.

So it's basically the same thing except for the videos which of course didn't exist when tivo adopted the technology, and since they'll play your photos they'll probalby adopt the videos too. I think I'll just hold out for my TiVo to do the same thing PLUS be a PVR and DVD burner.

 

[milo]

With FrontRow on the Mini it can act as a hub for the other computers in the network and play the movies via iTunes streaming.

Sure. And you're spending more to have two computers instead of one computer and one cheaper, simpler box.

1) No TV tuner support (eyeTV hybrid no go on iTV). eyeTV on another computer defeats the purpose of pausing live TV.

If they can make it work, I don't see any reason why eyeTV live TV couldn't be paused via the iTV remote. There's no technical reason it wouldn't be possible, they'd just have to implement it. Same with buying iTunes content direct from iTV, they could certainly add the feature if they wanted to.

But nobody will be downloading HD for iTV, so that's a moot point. From what I've seen so far it actually does less than other media streamers.

That's an assumption on your part. How do you know that iTunes won't include HD content in the future? How do you know that people won't be able to stream HD content from other sources?

?? TiVo will provide you a PVR that burns DVDs, has a tuner and hard drive, and wirelessly connects to your macintosh and plays your photo library and itunes for $300 plus you have to buy a usb network reciever for like $25.

So it's basically the same thing except for the videos which of course didn't exist when tivo adopted the technology, and since they'll play your photos they'll probalby adopt the videos too. I think I'll just hold out for my TiVo to do the same thing PLUS be a PVR and DVD burner.

Link? And is the $300 buying the box, or is that a montly fee for some amount of time? Where is the mac support, the tivo site says they don't support it?

 

[jwdsail]

I just may buy an ...

Apple iPod Video Express... (I'm hoping to kill the 'Chicken Little' iTV name will get Apple sued stuff)

A hard drive? Hard to believe, I'd think some flash memory as a buffer, maybe 4GB? Perhaps you can add a HD via the USB 2 port? Too small to have a 3.5" drive.. May be too small for a laptop drive.. A 1.8" drive would add too much to the cost, wouldn't it?

I think w/ the HDMI output, and the price, what we're staring at is really a wireless upscaler... Take any content from your Mac, and wirelessly upscale to the native res of your TV (up to 1080p)...

If this is the case, I may just buy one in place of the Mac mini (w/ something other than Intel Integrated *SPIT* Graphics BTO, that will more than likely never happen...) that I've wanted to add to my TV...


Shrug.


Just my $0.02US


jwd

 

[jabi]

iTV is basically a limited Mini with better remote control software, if i can use an Elgato eyeTV on it to record i'm buying for sure. Ideally would be an eyeTV with a USB 2 connection to add a big HD.

Given the form factor, I believe this is designed to sit on top of a Mac mini to gain recording functionality. Apple has no interest in taking away the computer from the equation. They see the Mac as the hub of your digital lifestyle. So, I predict we will see a "Media Center" version of Mac OS X that is designed to go with a specialized version of a Mac mini suited for recording TV, iTunes integration etc. that sits under the iTV.