Apple Killed the Mac Mini (LinusTT Review)

[Ploki]

Because that's the only way to expand any current Mac. On the PC side one would buy a system which can accommodate these things internally making TB3 much less important.

Just saying, not really comparing similar systems.

It's like comparing two towers one with 8x PCie slots and one with 3x and complaining that the 8x slotted one is more expensive. Well, duh.

I really don't mind external expansion frankly. the Mini will be tucked behind a desk, whether the drive is in a box cabled or mounted directly to the board doesn't make a difference. In fact in my case, I'd have it in a fast case cabled anyway so i can take it with me without dealing with file transfers.

 

[pl1984]

Just saying, not really comparing similar systems.

What system would you have people compare it to?

It's like comparing two towers one with 8x PCie slots and one with 3x and complaining that the 8x slotted one is more expensive. Well, duh.

If such expansion were important I would purchase a larger system. Why pay for small size when it's going to be negated by a bunch of other stuff?

I really don't mind external expansion frankly. the Mini will be tucked behind a desk, whether the drive is in a box cabled or mounted directly to the board doesn't make a difference. In fact in my case, I'd have it in a fast case cabled anyway so i can take it with me without dealing with file transfers.

What good is a SFF system if, due to external expansion of that SFF system, the space consumed negates the SFF?

 

[Ploki]

What system would you have people compare it to?

If such expansion were important I would purchase a larger system. Why pay for small size when it's going to be negated by a bunch of other stuff?

What good is a SFF system if, due to external expansion of that SFF system, the space consumed negates the SFF?

In case of apple, you don't really pay for small size. Mac Mini is the cheapest price/performance mac you can buy right now, so I don't really know how to reply to this.
I wanted CPU performance and I didn't want to pay for over the top GPU that's stuck to a screen (iMac Pro) since i'll be using an isolation closet, and the 15" MacBook Pro imo is overpriced for what it delivers right now.

The space consumed negates the SFF only if you need it. Point is you can hook on it exactly what you need, when you need it.
In my case, external SSD drive and a good TB audio interface.

The 2018 Mini looks like it was made for small audio production studios to be honest, and the only thing I'm sorry about is that the CPU doesn't come with Iris Pro. I don't know what i would change on it otherwise.
Yeah, internal nVME would be nice, but that story ended in 2017 with T2, even if it were removable, it would still be controlled by the T2.

You can't purcahse a larger system from Apple tho 🙁
I'm currently tied to the Ecosystem because i use Logic Pro X, and have lots of mac exclusive software licenses. If the Mini didn't came out after my i9 bit the dust, I'd consider moving.
( I still might, if it turns out to be a dissapointment when i actually recieve it)

 

[pl1984]

In case of apple, you don't really pay for small size. Mac Mini is the cheapest price/performance mac you can buy right now, so I don't really know how to reply to this.
I wanted CPU performance and I didn't want to pay for over the top GPU that's stuck to a screen (iMac Pro) since i'll be using an isolation closet, and the 15" MacBook Pro imo is overpriced for what it delivers right now.

The space consumed negates the SFF only if you need it. Point is you can hook on it exactly what you need, when you need it.
In my case, external SSD drive and a good TB audio interface.

The 2018 Mini looks like it was made for small audio production studios to be honest, and the only thing I'm sorry about is that the CPU doesn't come with Iris Pro. I don't know what i would change on it otherwise.
Yeah, internal nVME would be nice, but that story ended in 2017 with T2, even if it were removable, it would still be controlled by the T2.

You can't purcahse a larger system from Apple tho 🙁
I'm currently tied to the Ecosystem because i use Logic Pro X, and have lots of mac exclusive software licenses. If the Mini didn't came out after my i9 bit the dust, I'd consider moving.
( I still might, if it turns out to be a dissapointment when i actually recieve it)

This may be the case but is irrelevant to the number of TB3 ports. The argument against PC based NUC is they don't have four TB3 ports. My counter to that is the four TB3 ports are necessary because Apple doesn't offer a system which can be upgraded without them. Contrast this to the PC world where I can buy a SFF system, which may lack four TB3 ports, or I can buy a small / medium sized tower system which offers even better expansion via PCIe slots.

Take my recent acquisition of a Z440 system. I purchased this mid-sized tower because I wanted expansion capability. I could have purchased any number of SFF systems from HP (or other vendors) but opted to go with the Z440 due to the expansion it offered. I didn't think much of external expansion because everything I could want to expand on it can be done internally. Not so with the SFF systems.

 

[Ploki]

This may be the case but is irrelevant to the number of TB3 ports. The argument against PC based NUC is they don't have four TB3 ports. My counter to that is the four TB3 ports are necessary because Apple doesn't offer a system which can be upgraded without them. Contrast this to the PC world where I can buy a SFF system, which may lack four TB3 ports, or I can buy a small / medium sized tower system which offers even better expansion via PCIe slots.

Take my recent acquisition of a Z440 system. I purchased this mid-sized tower because I wanted expansion capability. I could have purchased any number of SFF systems from HP (or other vendors) but opted to go with the Z440 due to the expansion it offered. I didn't think much of external expansion because everything I could want to expand on it can be done internally. Not so with the SFF systems.

Well, yes, but apple set that direction in 2013 already with the Mac Pro, and reinforced it with 2016 MacBooks Pros and the 2017 iMac Pro.

You can buy a SFF or a small tower (two products), or you can buy a Mini in place of any of those two. So... It's an odd position, but cannot really be compared to either, since its not either.

It's not exactly small (Compared to NUC), but it's not a tower at all.
it has no internal expandability, but it has much more external expandability than typical SFF, comparable to a small tower.
So.. For people who think tower is too big, but prefer a little more manoeuvring space than a NUC offers?
Or mostly for people who wish to run Mac at a decent price/performance without going hackintosh. Probably the latter.

Side point; to be frank, the Mac Pro5,1 internal expansion was not really stellar. SATA was obsolete 2 years since the last release, and PCIe was pretty limited considering the tower's size, even your mid-sized Z440 has more PCIe slots.

 

[pl1984]

Well, yes, but apple set that direction in 2013 already with the Mac Pro, and reinforced it with 2016 MacBooks Pros and the 2017 iMac Pro.

You can buy a SFF or a small tower (two products), or you can buy a Mini in place of any of those two. So... It's an odd position, but cannot really be compared to either, since its not either.

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to say here.

It's not exactly small (Compared to NUC), but it's not a tower at all.
it has no internal expandability, but it has much more external expandability than typical SFF, comparable to a small tower.

In the PC world one buys a SFF computer because they want a SFF computer. They don't buy SFF computers to add a bunch of external things. Instead they buy a small / medium sized tower which can accommodate those things internally. Thus the need for many high speed ports is unnecessary.

Side point; to be frank, the Mac Pro5,1 internal expansion was not really stellar. SATA was obsolete 2 years since the last release, and PCIe was pretty limited considering the tower's size, even your mid-sized Z440 has more PCIe slots.

The GPU in the 5,1 Mac Pro can be upgraded to current technology. In fact a user compared his 2018 Mac Mini w/eGPU to his 5,1 Mac Pro with the same GPU and the Mac Pro outperformed the Mini in several GPU related tasks. Likewise the 5,1 Mac Pro can utilize SATA / AHCI / NVMe SSDs offering capacity / performance well above the disk configurations available at the time it was being sold.

As for my Z440 system I can purchase a TB2 PCie card for $90. Did I do so? No, instead I purchased a 1TB NVMe drive (for a total cost of $280). If I want to upgrade its GPU (it has a mediocre, but fine for my needs, Quadro NVS-315) I can do so quickly and easily. I don't need to rearrange my current configuration to accommodate an eGPU enclosure. I'm not trying to push the Z440 but rather the concept of a small tower system which, once all the external things are added to a Mini, consumes no more space.

 

[oldtime]

LTT is a joke. He makes a habit of cherry-picking and making apples to oranges comparisons. I would call him intentionally ignorant. He's not there to genuinely inform you of anything at this point -- just to run a business -- so I would look elsewhere for better tech news and reviews. Why even listen to a man spout off about a MM when he admittedly doesn't even understand the basics of using MacOS? His team does the work and he blathers on like he actually put the MM through its paces when that isn't the case.

 

[pl1984]

LTT is a joke. He makes a habit of cherry-picking and making apples to oranges comparisons. I would call him intentionally ignorant. He's not there to genuinely inform you of anything at this point -- just to run a business -- so I would look elsewhere for better tech news and reviews. Why even listen to a man spout off about a MM when he admittedly doesn't even understand the basics of using MacOS? His team does the work and he blathers on like he actually put the MM through its paces when that isn't the case.

What about his review do you find to be in error?

 

[Ploki]

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to say here.


In the PC world one buys a SFF computer because they want a SFF computer. They don't buy SFF computers to add a bunch of external things. Instead they buy a small / medium sized tower which can accommodate those things internally. Thus the need for many high speed ports is unnecessary.


The GPU in the 5,1 Mac Pro can be upgraded to current technology. In fact a user compared his 2018 Mac Mini w/eGPU to his 5,1 Mac Pro with the same GPU and the Mac Pro outperformed the Mini in several GPU related tasks. Likewise the 5,1 Mac Pro can utilize SATA / AHCI / NVMe SSDs offering capacity / performance well above the disk configurations available at the time it was being sold.

As for my Z440 system I can purchase a TB2 PCie card for $90. Did I do so? No, instead I purchased a 1TB NVMe drive (for a total cost of $280). If I want to upgrade its GPU (it has a mediocre, but fine for my needs, Quadro NVS-315) I can do so quickly and easily. I don't need to rearrange my current configuration to accommodate an eGPU enclosure. I'm not trying to push the Z440 but rather the concept of a small tower system which, once all the external things are added to a Mini, consumes no more space.

I understand what you're saying, but the only tower Apple ever had was the Mac Pro - and they shrinked it to the trashcan.
I just don't see them doing one, especially small sized tower.
I also don't see one way being superior to the other either; a smallsized tower mostly empty, or a smaller form expanded via highspeed ports.

If apple offered current Mini vs a mid-sized tower I'd be hard-pressed to chose one over the other.

 

[harriska2]

This guy is a tool that hates Apple. Why doesn’t he focus what he loves?

I'm glad reviewers hold Apple's feet to the fire. Before purchasing the Mac mini, I had to figure out if the issues were ones I could live with:

1. Possible blue tooth interferences - don't use bluetooth, plug in trackpad 2 and have it away from Mac mini
2. USB interferences - get a hub that other people have few issues with
3. Can overheat - give it lots of room, keep tabs on it
4. Processor limiting due to heat - be patient?
5. Displayport/usbc issues - already had HDMI2 Samsung 4k monitor
6. Dual display issues - I have a honking 40" single monitor
7. Graphics slow - don't play games, can get $400 off brand egpu if needed
8. Overpriced ram - upgrade it to 32gb myself next year when my savings recovers
9. Overpriced SSD - just get the 1tb and shut up about the horrible pricing, I'll live
10. Not enough USB ports - got a 7 port plug in hub
11. Flaky/compatibility with USB-c ports - I don't use them, I use USB3 for external drives and live with slower access
12. Comes with no keyboard/mouse - I use my old dell keyboard and bought a snazzy, used Magic Trackpad 2, which I dearly love
13. T2 chip - I have Apple Care
14. Can't remove/replace internal SSD - Apple Care, hope it doesn't die, if it does look for a parts Mac mini for a replacement board or just replace whole thing if it is 4 or more years old
15. Can't really move all data to external drives - Bought the 1tb SSD internally, I learned about symbolic links, found most apps will let you place data in other locations, and watch what goes on the SSD carefully
16. Legacy USB items may not work - I was prepared to buy a new webcam but managed to get mine to work with 2 different Logitech/driver packages, I have an older Mac for eyeTV (moving old videos to .mov and mp4) but found that the Haugpaugh USB dongle and a newer version of eyeTV actually works!

 

[pl1984]

I understand what you're saying, but the only tower Apple ever had was the Mac Pro - and they shrinked it to the trashcan.
I just don't see them doing one, especially small sized tower.
I also don't see one way being superior to the other either; a smallsized tower mostly empty, or a smaller form expanded via highspeed ports.

If apple offered current Mini vs a mid-sized tower I'd be hard-pressed to chose one over the other.

They won't if Apple users continue to make excuses for them. The Mini is a great computer but, IMO, it should not be a replacement for a reasonable sized desktop for those who want a reasonable amount of expansion. Yes, it can be externally expanded but by the time you get done doing so you've likely consumed as much space as a reasonable sized desktop thus negating the benefit of having a SFF system.

 

[maflynn]

another "[insert youtuber name here] is annoying" comment 😀

Linus is a "PC guy" and he always seems to focus on "value", but he does not hesitate to criticize many high end PCs too. His style aside, I generally find their reviews informational.

He has over 7.6 million subscribers and this video alone has over 1.3 million views. He's incredibly knowledgeable and while he's a windows person, he gives credit where credit due. This was an overall positive review btw.

 

[Ploki]

They won't if Apple users continue to make excuses for them. The Mini is a great computer but, IMO, it should not be a replacement for a reasonable sized desktop for those who want a reasonable amount of expansion. Yes, it can be externally expanded but by the time you get done doing so you've likely consumed as much space as a reasonable sized desktop thus negating the benefit of having a SFF system.

However if their ultimate goal is to push Thunderbolt expansion (which is what i assumed they're trying to do with 2012 MacBook Pros and 2013 Mac Pros), consolidating the whole Mac line makes perfect sense, it also simplifies manufacturers producing accessories for Macs which are a niché computer market.
Sure, a standard expandable tower would make the tower easily expandable, but it would hamper the all-in-ones and laptops.

I don't see MM is a SFF, because it really isn't anymore, compared to other SFF of 2018, rather, an apple's "small sized tower" as a precursor to a Modular mac pro.
They explicitly said modular. Internal expansion is not the first thing that springs to mind when someone says modular.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/297...ses-stackable-blocks-to-build-a-computer.html
https://www2.razer.com/christine

 

[pl1984]

However if their ultimate goal is to push Thunderbolt expansion (which is what i assumed they're trying to do with 2012 MacBook Pros and 2013 Mac Pros), consolidating the whole Mac line makes perfect sense, it also simplifies manufacturers producing accessories for Macs which are a niché computer market.

I feel pushing TB expansion on the desktop if the wrong direction. It makes sense on mobile devices but less so on the desktop. There's no reason Apple could build a PowerMac sized tower again for those who would like a desktop system with reasonable expansion.

Sure, a standard expandable tower would make the tower easily expandable, but it would hamper the all-in-ones and laptops.

How so? Offering a tower system does not preclude having TB expansion on AIO's and laptops.

I don't see MM is a SFF, because it really isn't anymore, compared to other SFF of 2018, rather, an apple's "small sized tower" as a precursor to a Modular mac pro.

IMO the Mini is a SFF system.

They explicitly said modular. Internal expansion is not the first thing that springs to mind when someone says modular.

I don't know what the new Mac Pro will be and I'm not going to speculate as to what they mean by modular.

 

[Ploki]

I feel pushing TB expansion on the desktop if the wrong direction. It makes sense on mobile devices but less so on the desktop. There's no reason Apple could build a PowerMac sized tower again for those who would like a desktop system with reasonable expansion.

How so? Offering a tower system does not preclude having TB expansion on AIO's and laptops.


IMO the Mini is a SFF system.


I don't know what the new Mac Pro will be and I'm not going to speculate as to what they mean by modular.

1. Might be, i honestly don't know. I can swing either way and am happy.

2. shrinks the potential market further

3. 🙂 but it's large

4. lets wait and see then 🙂 Since i just ordered a full shabbang i will most certainly skip it, but am eager to see what they come up with.

 

[pl1984]

2. shrinks the potential market further

Let me expand that out to include desktops too 🙂

 

[Cashmonee]

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to say here.


In the PC world one buys a SFF computer because they want a SFF computer. They don't buy SFF computers to add a bunch of external things. Instead they buy a small / medium sized tower which can accommodate those things internally. Thus the need for many high speed ports is unnecessary.


The GPU in the 5,1 Mac Pro can be upgraded to current technology. In fact a user compared his 2018 Mac Mini w/eGPU to his 5,1 Mac Pro with the same GPU and the Mac Pro outperformed the Mini in several GPU related tasks. Likewise the 5,1 Mac Pro can utilize SATA / AHCI / NVMe SSDs offering capacity / performance well above the disk configurations available at the time it was being sold.

As for my Z440 system I can purchase a TB2 PCie card for $90. Did I do so? No, instead I purchased a 1TB NVMe drive (for a total cost of $280). If I want to upgrade its GPU (it has a mediocre, but fine for my needs, Quadro NVS-315) I can do so quickly and easily. I don't need to rearrange my current configuration to accommodate an eGPU enclosure. I'm not trying to push the Z440 but rather the concept of a small tower system which, once all the external things are added to a Mini, consumes no more space.

You would likely need to also upgrade your power supply if you were to upgrade the GPU in that machine (assuming you have the 525w version). Which then may be an issue if the power supply is somehow proprietary. Not saying it cannot be done, but upgrading a prebuilt PC is not always a simple plug and play when it comes to things like GPUs.

 

[pl1984]

You would likely need to also upgrade your power supply if you were to upgrade the GPU in that machine (assuming you have the 525w version). Which then may be an issue if the power supply is somehow proprietary. Not saying it cannot be done, but upgrading a prebuilt PC is not always a simple plug and play when it comes to things like GPUs.

The only GPU solutions which require the 700 watt power supply are the Quadro M4000, M5000, P4000, P5000, P6000, FirePro W7100, and WX7100. All high end GPUs which are easily installed internally with the Z440 (mine has the 700 watt power supply).

 

[philipma1957]

I like the dell because I don't need any add ons. but if I want to I could add on an eGpu as it has 1 fast port.
the new mini would have been okay with removable ssd or nvme m.2 ssd or both like the dell.

Soldered ssd is really bad.

my needs are simple a large sata ssd a decent amount of ram. my dell has

Ports & Slots
1. Power Button
| 2. Universal Audio Jack
| 3. Line-out |


4. USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type-C Port only one port but it will run an eGPU as this is like a tb3 port




| 5. USB 3.1 Gen 1 Port (with Powershare)
| 6. Thumbscrew
| 7. Knock-out Slots for Wireless Antennas
| 8. RJ-45
| 9. USB 3.1 Gen 1 Ports (4)
| 10. Padlock Loop
| 11. K-lock Slot
| 12. DisplayPorts (2)
| 13. Power Connection

 

[Cashmonee]

I like the dell because I don't need any add ons. but if I want to I could add on an eGpu as it has 1 fast port.
the new mini would have been okay with removable ssd or nvme m.2 ssd or both like the dell.

Soldered ssd is really bad.

my needs are simple a large sata ssd a decent amount of ram. my dell has

Ports & Slots
1. Power Button
| 2. Universal Audio Jack
| 3. Line-out |


4. USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type-C Port only one port but it will run an eGPU as this is like a tb3 port




| 5. USB 3.1 Gen 1 Port (with Powershare)
| 6. Thumbscrew
| 7. Knock-out Slots for Wireless Antennas
| 8. RJ-45
| 9. USB 3.1 Gen 1 Ports (4)
| 10. Padlock Loop
| 11. K-lock Slot
| 12. DisplayPorts (2)
| 13. Power Connection

This I agree with. No replaceable storage is pretty unforgivable. Apple would tell that it allows for ultimate security (with the T2), but I do not know how many people need that much security.

 

[LeeW]

He has over 7.6 million subscribers and this video alone has over 1.3 million views.

And that is all he cares about, no really, it is. The revenue generation. He will review what hits the money.

 

[philipma1957]

This I agree with. No replaceable storage is pretty unforgivable. Apple would tell that it allows for ultimate security (with the T2), but I do not know how many people need that much security.

yep my mac mini sits on my desk in my house and there is me and the wife so if some gets to the mac mini tt2 chip is worthless in my case since the 'bad' guy will just say what is the password. No answer means bad stuff happens to me or my wife. So all the t2 chips in the world are pretty much worthless. besides if security had meaning you could drop iCloud with ease since most hacks are in the cloud not in the house.

 

[pl1984]

And that is all he cares about, no really, it is. The revenue generation. He will review what hits the money.

Despite this I have yet to see anyone who has pointed out any inaccuracies with his review.

 

[oldtime]

What about his review do you find to be in error?

Never said that he was is error -- just that his coverage of Apple products is surface-level and essentially worthless on a good day. He's a clickbait machine that's all about the $$$. Furthermore, since he's not actually familiar with the basics of Macs, it's his team that does all the work and puts the words in his mouth to spout at the camera.

The guy is emblematic of so many unlikeable things about tech culture -- particularly on the PC side -- that it's a little nauseating to watch him IMO. He's popular for the same reason McDonald's is popular. How many views he gets, which people keep bringing up in this thread for some reason, is completely irrelevant.

 

[Ploki]

yep my mac mini sits on my desk in my house and there is me and the wife so if some gets to the mac mini tt2 chip is worthless in my case since the 'bad' guy will just say what is the password. No answer means bad stuff happens to me or my wife. So all the t2 chips in the world are pretty much worthless. besides if security had meaning you could drop iCloud with ease since most hacks are in the cloud not in the house.

I never saw Apple advertising the T2 chip being able to pull a gun on a robber.

There are various levels of security, you mentioned one of many.

You may argue that it's been optional, but you cannot argue that T2 security measures are trivial, it's actually pretty cool and in a corporate scenario seems amazing.

It also seems amazing if I lived in the USA where the gov likes to keep tabs on people.

This I agree with. No replaceable storage is pretty unforgivable. Apple would tell that it allows for ultimate security (with the T2), but I do not know how many people need that much security.

There's been a lot of speculation that Apple is targeting enterprise/corporate lately.
A lot of people already use iPhones in corporate, since Apple puts a lot of emphasis on security and data protection.
Giving them equally secured computers is a neat selling point.
And corporate is a big market with steady upgrade cycles

Never said that he was is error -- just that his coverage of Apple products is surface-level and essentially worthless on a good day. He's a clickbait machine that's all about the $$$. Furthermore, since he's not actually familiar with the basics of Macs, it's his team that does all the work and puts the words in his mouth to spout at the camera.

The guy is emblematic of so many unlikeable things about tech culture -- particularly on the PC side -- that it's a little nauseating to watch him IMO. He's popular for the same reason McDonald's is popular. How many views he gets, which people keep bringing up in this thread for some reason, is completely irrelevant.

Maybe, but this particular review was pretty spot on.