Apple Launches Apple TV 3.0 Software and iTunes 9.0.2
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CBlakeston
macrumors 6502a
One thing I haven't read in the thread which I think is really slick is how the new main screen puts your own recent unwatched content along the top along with the items from the iTunes store. Very cool. As well as making my media library look super upto date at a glance with the latest titles (lol) it means that unless your hunting for something, you can mostly use the top menu. Nice.
To give a little bit of background, I'm a cameraman of twelve years and am the head of a purchasing team that has spent the last three years and £7.4m upgrading two studios/VTR of a major UK broadcaster from SD to HD.
Regarding your comments - you're very, very wrong on many levels but I really can't be bothered to go into it.
To conclude - 1080i resolves greater than 720p and is therefore considered better quality.
Actually, the reason 720p broadcasts are preferred for sports is that the video is at 60 frames per second in comparison to broadcast 1080i which is at 30 frames per second. Also, the alternate, odd/even scan lines in interlaced TV are drawn at 1/60th of a second intervals (not 1/30th), in fact the full frame is finished in just 1/30th of a second (i.e. 30 frames per second) just the same as for progressive 30fps content. For that reason, interlaced 30 frame per second content can also be termed 60 fields per second.
In some of your other points I agree completely. Most people sit far enough from their HDTVs that they are seldom able to take advantage of the full resolution in their 720p content. I actually posted two notes in another thread here on MacRumors just yesterday that offered some of the same data you used about viewing distances and HDTV sizes. Here are my links (warning real facts to follow rather than mere opinion):
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/8728613/
and more here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/8730661/
If you compare my 9 foot viewing distance with 720p resolution you get the following:
Absolute optimum viewing conditions (scale from 1080p to 720p): (720 / 1080) * 70 inch HDTV = 47 inch HDTV.
Typical viewing conditions: (720 / 1080) * 96 inch HDTV = 64 inch HDTV.
Lastly, and here comes some opinion, I'd much rather have solid, moderately compressed 720p streaming content than overly compressed 1080p. Right now Apple's 720p content is overly compressed at even 4.5Mbps. I think they should really offer something in the range of 5 to 6Mbps at an absolute minimum. Of course, even that would strain some internet connections. Now lets scale those numbers for 1080p content, (1920x1080) / (1280x720) = 2.25 and thus 2.25 x 5.5Mbps = 12.4Mbps. Do you think anyone is going to be able to reliably stream video at those rates over today's internet? No, not going to happen. Therefore, they are going to have to compress the heck out of that 1080p content and what's going to be thrown out the window (and into the bit bucket): detail, resolution, color range, and shadows (oh, and thrown in some good compression artifacts on the side).
IMO, the world (in general) isn't ready for streaming 1080p content and it won't be so for several more years.
By the way (more opinion), for the vast majority of users the Apple TV is neither overpriced nor out of date. It's getting a little long in the tooth but it's still quite competitive.
Sorry guys if I have missed something but after updating my smart playlists are still out of order? Has this problem been solved already?
Thanks!
No, it's still broken.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I'm sure you realize that ripping your own BDs is possible, just like ripping your own DVDs is possible.
Then their loss. Waiting until the Studios want to sell their content that way means we may not get there until BD is completely dead (translation years, maybe a decade or so). That is a chicken & egg argument, putting the Studios importance ahead of Apple's drive to sell hardware. If Apple gave us the hardware capability, the Studios could keep delivering handicapped 720p via iTunes. But the pressure would be there to experiment with some higher resolution content, and some Studio would give in, find it more profitable than burning discs and giving Walmart a big(ger) cut of each sale, and then we all get to where we want to go.
Else, Apple doesn't give us the next-gen hardware, and then there is NO POSSIBILITY of one Studio giving 1080p a try in iTunes, discovering they can still make their profits, and getting us to THE destination. Which seems more likely to get us- the BUYERS- to where we want to go?
Something that is under direct threat isn't necessarily going away, and it isn't unavailable right now. Lobbying Congress, and getting Congress to actually do something is two dramatically different things. Congress can't even do what it says it wants to do in every election campaign.
Are you kidding. If its shot in 1080p, just because it has to be rendered as a file that could playback, doesn't automatically make a person like chopping it down to a handicapped version of 720p (more likely the half height, half width of 960 x 540 so that it won't stutter when the camera was moving).
720p camcorder video from a 1080p source DOES NOT play fine on
TV. It stutters when the whole frame is moving. I- for one- reluctantly put up with the 960 x 540 option so that I get 30fps (no stutter), but that is still an apples & oranges compared to hooking the camcorder directly to the TV and seeing a picture with twice the horizontal and twice the vertical resolution.And yet that load time with the Xbox360 is still faster than the mandatory game installs on the PS3 + slooooooooooooooooow 2x blu-ray disc reads
Say what you will about the PS3 hardware, even though it is the weaker of the two systems graphically, blu-ray and wifi don't matter at all. The Xbox360 has what matters most to people looking at game consoles: actual GOOD games. Every major hyped PS3 game so far has been a flop. Every major hyped Xbox360 game so far has been a success.
The PS3 is great as a blu-ray player and media player, and walks all over the Apple TV in that regard. But theres a reason the PS3 is in a very distant third place when it comes to game consoles. And that has to do with just a sub-par game lineup, first/second party titles being overhyped and flopping, and third party exclusives being almost non-existent or just flopping too, like MGS4.
Netflix just announced they are going to be on the PS3 starting next month. For the next few months you have to order a DVD with the software. a firmware upgrade is coming next month.
only reason to get an x-box now is if you want to play games and that's it
greygray
macrumors 68000
Who needs that now?
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I thought Apple says their business is to sell HARDWARE. I thought Apple has said over and over again that iTunes exists to sell HARDWARE. Is the iPod business model mainly about renting/buying content from iTunes? Is the iPhone business model mainly about renting/buying content from iTunes? Isn't
TV an "ipod for your TV"?If
TV primary purpose in Apple's eyes is as a device to rent/buy content from iTunes, then Apple is doing a very crappy job with that business model. For example, Netflix has a much better rental model from both cost and availability standpoints. If Apple is in that business, they really need to step up their game.If we "buy" that1) full 1080p HD capability - built-in won't happen until the pipes are there because people won't wait for a day for watching a movie. of course, there's always the forthcoming hack to look forward to.
TV sole purpose is to rent/buy movies from iTunes, I understand how you feel this way. And if so, then we have to wait until those pipes are expanded, which looks like it will be a VERY, VERY long wait in a country the size of the U.S. Of course, those of us who shoot 1080p home movies with our 2-year old Camcorders, who can import it into iMovie and render it out as 1080p MP4s that will import and play in iTunes, but just can't be handled by
TV "as is" will just need to be happy about it.And those with building BD collections who would like to make a personal copy and put the master disc away, will just need to be happy about that too.
Just like allowing us to import our CDs instead of (re)buy all of our music via the iTunes store doesn't support a make 'em buy it from iTunes business model, right?
Besides, I think Apples business model is selling HARDWARE (what they've said it is over and over), and iTunes business is secondary to that one. If so,
prospective
TV buyers would like to kill 2- or in this case maybe 3 birds with one stone. If BUYERS are going to buy a BD player anyway, building that into a next-gen TV means getting one device that does both. If BUYERS are going to buy DVRs anyway, building that into a next-gen TV means getting one device that does both. If Apple is in the HARDWARE sales business, giving BUYERS what they want probably makes a lot more sense than NOT giving them what they want and expecting those BUYERS to come around to Apple's way of thinking (handicapped 720p is good enough on my 1080p set, even though I shot these home movies in 1080p, I'll be happy watching them in half wide, half high resolution, I don't want to play 1080p movies on my 1080p set, I don't want to record television that I'm already paying for because I'd rather pay for it AGAIN via iTunes, etc).
So the message is "CLOSED SYSTEM" because keeping it closed will somehow make the world come around to Apple's way of thinking. And that will sell more HARDWARE how?
I'll take that as you are kidding. If not, iTunes plays much more than
TV, and Quicktime is much more capable than iTunes. I think the box hooked to the biggest screen in the house, probably hooked to the best sound system in the house, etc should push the limits of Quicktime, not be the absolute weakest link in the chain.Again, give BUYERS what they want, or try to make BUYERS want it the way Apple wants to give it. Which option sells more HARDWARE?
I generally appreciate the love for Apple, and that Apple is all-knowing, and their way must be right, and thus all of us BUYERS are wrong until we see it Apple's way. And from that, it is easy to justify anything with concepts like "since the broadband pipes are too limited, it makes no sense to give us anything that taxes them" (perhaps we should all go back to 56k modems???) or "since the Studios don't make 1080p content available on iTunes, there's no purpose in building next-gen
TV that can play anything more than what is available now (perhaps Apple shouldn't build iPhones that could tether since AT&T pipes couldn't handle that (still)???). And so on.Apple should LEAD the way. They shouldn't FOLLOW Studios, or limit any hardware development due to limited bandwith pipes, etc. With
TV, the goal (the business goal) should be to lock up a spot in as many living rooms as possible. I can practically guarantee that this Christmas more BD players and DVRs will be under the tree than TV. BUT, if Apple rolled out an TV that covered one or both of those very popular wishes, TV would be the better choice. Existing tech in the marketplace shows that it can be done for about the same price as TV, so we know they can do it.Thanks to those putting forth great effort to clearly explain the differences between the various HD resolution - much appreciated - I've learned something new.
I do still wish the the devise supported 1080P for future proofing and potentially eventual HD camcorder use - but it's seeming that it ought not be a deal breaker for me.
I do still wish the the devise supported 1080P for future proofing and potentially eventual HD camcorder use - but it's seeming that it ought not be a deal breaker for me.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I was in this same (price will rise too high) camp a year+ ago. But look around. You can see the various major pieces in other boxes retailing for a lot less than
TV now. If you put in a BD player, it naturally needs 1080p chips, so 2 big wishes get covered in one inclusion. DVR boxes are available priced below TV, so the tuner chip and cablecard functionality is available wholesale for substantially less.Could Apple put both BD and DVR pieces into an
TV so that it could still retail for around the current price of TV. I would guess Apple could, probably preserving more classic Apple margins to boot. But if not, make them add on options (mini-stack style) for those interested and it still leads to more sales of TV. The rest is just software, and software deals. A next-gen platform at 1080p specs with some openness regarding expansion & add-ons would be futureproof for probably the next decade or more (meaning all software updates could keep it cutting edge).
Tilpots
macrumors 601
I was in this same (price will rise too high) camp a year+ ago. But look around. You can see the various major pieces in other boxes retailing for a lot less than
Could Apple put both BD and DVR pieces into an
The rest is just software, and software deals. A next-gen platform at 1080p specs with some openness regarding expansion & add-ons would be futureproof for probably the next decade or more (meaning all software updates could keep it cutting edge).
QFT.
I'm still so angry about the lack of decent hardware. Yes, angry. What's it gonna take for apple to make a decent living room media player?
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Both my Satt and Cable providers offer a fair amount of VOD content in 1080p. Just because it isn't officially an HD standard doesn't mean it isn't the highest quality source of visual entertainment readily available to consumers today. It IS the target for anyone wanting a library of "future proof" content to play back on their 1080p HDTV set.
Settling for less when we don't have to, is like buying VHS, then Laserdisc, then DVD, then BD as each comes into mainstream favor. It exists now. It is within reach now. It is probably going to be THE highest quality consumer standard for the next decade or more. So why not try to go there ASAP?In my case, I have a great deal of Camcorder 1080p that I have rendered as 960 x 540 because that's about as good as
TV can handle now (without the panning stutter). At some point, I'll have to go to the trouble of re-rendering it at higher resolution when Apple finally releases a 1080i or 1080p capable TV, or when I give up on Apple and go with one of the other options that can do that since last year+.Watch sports on TNT or CBS in 1080i vs. sports on ESPN or ABS in 720p and see if that poor brain is able to be fooled into thinking TNT/CBS picture quality is better than ESPN/ABC picture quality.
And 1080p completely washes out the interlace argument.
Again, let that 95% objectively compare TNT/CBS vs. ESPN/ABC for picture quality.
And more on point, while Apple can technically claim that
TV is 720p HD, it is BARELY that standard- maxing out at 6Mbps (vs. the "standard" of 19Mbps or 25Mbps depending on which Engineer you talk to) and at only 24fps.Certainly. Higher picture resolution will look fabulous vs. lower picture resolution. 1080i has more pixels than 720p. 1080p maxes out a consumer-available video resolution standard (at least for now).
DVD SD looks FABULOUS next to VHS, but that doesn't mean we should be happy with a Apple-chosen cap of DVD (or handicapped 720p) resolution when something better is a MAX standard available now.
"NO MOTION" is an exaggeration. It would imply that fast moving NBA on TNT or football on CBS is probably unwatchable given all the fast motion of such sports. While the underlying point is technically valid, the eye is easily fooled with interlace. But regardless, a 1080p signal cancels out the concept anyway.
To this- unfortunately- I find a lot to agree with (but hope we are both wrong, and (some) TUE (sooner than later) will bring us the next-gen
TV we know Apple can make.)
Rantipole
macrumors 6502
Just curious, is it possible for Palm to write an app which, when connecting the Pre to a Mac, would automatically find the music folder and transfer songs? What I'm asking is, is it possible to write an app that would make it as easy to sync as iTunes is?
That said, I really think Apple should license iTunes. Competition is good.
Lactoseintolrnt
macrumors newbie
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HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Unless you work at Apple and thus are using the next-gen
TV we all want them to make, don't be fooled by selecting a menu option that says 1080i or 1080p in the TV menus and the resolution of the video content that can be played back on the device. They could put a menu item in that says 4096p Ultra HD, but it won't magically make the TV or your video sources play back at that resolution either.1080i or 1080p video does NOT play on
TV. The "HD" that does is a very, very limited incarnation of 720p pinched in both Mbps and frame rate (at only 24fps). Even that can look pretty good- especially compared to SD resolutions like DVD- but it is not 1080i or 1080p. Whatever 1080p you think you are watching through current gen
TV hardware is handicapped 720p at best.And if you do work at Apple and you have a next-gen
TV capable of real 1080p video playback, pm me and I'll buy it TODAY- NAME YOUR PRICE. Seriously.Thats why the PS3 is currently outselling the 360.
http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?con...All&cons3=X360®3=All&start=40055&end=40111
You're arguing opinions as facts. Thats why your arguments never seem to hold up by themselves.
---
Dahaww, MosX has come back for some more attention.
Arguing opinions as facts? Deja vu.
Other features not metioned
Other things I noticed, not metioned here (at least I have not read them)
1. Search my music - before you couldn't search your own music library, just the iTunes Music Store. This is a big plus.
2. Music Videos keep playing in the background while you navigate around other menus. Before, if I was playing a music video, and I would go to Top Movies, it would cancel the playing of the video. I have not tried this with music, but I would assume it does the same.
Nice update!
Other things I noticed, not metioned here (at least I have not read them)
1. Search my music - before you couldn't search your own music library, just the iTunes Music Store. This is a big plus.
2. Music Videos keep playing in the background while you navigate around other menus. Before, if I was playing a music video, and I would go to Top Movies, it would cancel the playing of the video. I have not tried this with music, but I would assume it does the same.
Nice update!
jaw04005
macrumors 601
Whatever 1080p you think you are watching through current gen
It’s upscales your content to 1080p just like an up-converting DVD player. You shouldn’t marginalize that. Do you even own an Apple TV? Because even regular 480p DVDs look perfectly fine on it (much better than Netflix or Hulu streaming like people on this thread are always yammering on about).
The fact still remains that until the iTunes Store offers content above 720p 24FPS, we aren’t going to see playback/hardware improvements to the Apple TV.
Personally, I think a lot of the media limitations of the Apple TV and iPhone are just artificial. For example, the iPhone 3GS is perfectly capable of storing 720p 24FPS content and playing it back on the device itself and through its component cables. However, Apple hasn’t adjusted iTunes to let such content sync. Same with the Apple TV, it likely can support 720p at 30 FPS but Apple hasn’t adjusted iTunes to let that content sync either.
I used the link you supplied and it clearly shows the 360 is in 2nd place under the Wii with the PS3 in dead last in lifetime sales.
Wii had 56 million, 360 had 33 million and the PS3 had 26 million.
So how was he wrong?
Absolutely correct. Can anyone explain why
The PS3 is not smaller/slimmer and consumes much more energy.
But you're right about the other things.
Does it have WiFi? I forgot.