Apple Launches New 4K & 5K iMacs, Magic Keyboard, Magic Mouse 2 and Magic Trackpad 2

[MagnusVonMagnum]

That's the galling part. I mean just look at the cost of 128GB flash drives and yet apple decided to use 24GB flash storage in their 1TB Fusion drive - that's just greed. I mean you couple a slow hard drive with a tiny flash drive and you have the recipe for slow storage.

What's really galling is that you can pick up a 480GB SSD from PNY for $139 shipped at the consumer price level. Apple wants what, $500 to upgrade that iMac from a POS to a 512GB SSD? That's ridiculous when you know Apple gets a big discount for buying massive quantities of drives. Sadly, the ONLY way to send Apple a message is to stop buying their products. Unfortunately, that could backfire into the death of the Mac if it were widespread enough. Professional reviews harping on the miserly aspects of Apple might get some traction, though. Apple does respond to really bad press on issues. They do NOT usually respond to user feedback what-so-ever (i.e. sending feedback accomplishes NOTHING; believe me I've tried on all kinds of issues including major bugs like NFS UNIX networking not preventing sleep and they just ignore it all year after year).

I'm not ready to abandon the platform. I really do like OS X. I think windows 10 is a fine OS, and I use it often on my SP3, yet I do find myself coming back to my Mac more often then the the SP3.

I'm giving serious thought to building a Hackintosh. I've thought about it for years, really, but it's to the point where I'd really like ONE machine for both a home server and gaming rig and clean some desk space off now that my dedicated Windows gaming machine is completely out of date. It's obvious with the last Mac Mini update that Apple is not going to EVER release a decent Mini again (the 2012 Quad-i7 was awesome in every manner EXCEPT the GPU and even so it's run most games for me pretty well up through Borderlands The Pre-Sequel and older games, but the 2014 model neutered the Mini once and for all. It's now just an entry level POS, IMO. It has neither a good GPU or a good CPU option and it's hard to upgrade anything on it at all).

I am finding a hard time justifying the purchase of the iMac with its premium pricing, but decidedly lack of premium components. I'm in no rush, I was originally intending to replace my Mac in 2016, but perhaps I'll push that even further - provided my Apple Cinema Display continues to work problem free (it is getting old)

I've always hated iMacs, but the first iMac 5k actually interested me. Despite the high price, it had a decent setup when it came out. The 5K monitor alone was a good deal and the GPU was good for 1080p gaming, at least. But they've made its features worse, not better (crappy AMD overheating GPUs with less power to get the price down, bringing back rotational drives as standard when it seemed they would get rid of them entirely and you can't HELP but conclude it's all about trying to suck out maximum profits from the user base rather than provide actual value now).

 

[maflynn]

Apple wants what, $500 to upgrade that iMac from a POS to a 512GB SSD? That's ridiculous when you know Apple gets a big discount for buying massive quantities of drives.

Agreed, and I find the price increase for the 1TB fusion drive ridiculous given that you're not really getting much (a tiny flash drive and a slow hard drive), never mind the SSD upgrade.

I'm giving serious thought to building a Hackintosh.

I went that route once and it wasn't a bad experience maybe I need to revisit that option once again.

I've always hated iMacs, but the first iMac 5k actually interested me. Despite the high price, it had a decent setup when it came out. The 5K monitor alone was a good deal and the GPU was good for 1080p gaming, at least. But they've made its features worse, not better (crappy AMD overheating GPUs with less power to get the price down, bringing back rotational drives as standard when it seemed they would get rid of them entirely and you can't HELP but conclude it's all about trying to suck out maximum profits from the user base rather than provide actual value now).

I feel the iMac harkens back to the original Macintosh, that is the Bondi Blue iMac was basically Apple getting back to its roots. During the subsequent years they of course improved the iMac, sometimes radically, other times, rather subtly. Yet I have to say this is probably one of the only times where I think design and improvements took a back seat to extracting every cent out of the consumer buying the computer. The philosophy seems to be less about user experience and more about profit margins.

I saw what Apple did with the Mac Mini back during the last refresh and how that roiled so many people because the price was the same but they cut back on the type of components being used. That should have raised a red flag back then, but now as we see the same mentality for the iMac refresh. Inferior components at the same high price point, it only shows what is important for apple.

I'll not be surprised to see the MacBook Pros succumb to the same treatment when its their turn for a refresh.

 

[navaira]

Seeing moderators considering a Hackintosh is... an interesting experience.

I wonder if Apple will indeed not split at some point soon into software/service division, phone division and computing division. The computing division will deliver iMacs, Macbooks etc., but it will also certify certain computer parts as "suitable for Mac OS X". Legalised Hackintoshing. I would never consider that possibility 10 years ago, but the way Apple operates in 2015 makes me think otherwise. They could charge, ooh, 25% of the price of the components for the little Apple sticker and $99 for Mac OS (unless pre-installed on an actual Mac) without actually producing anything extra. Apple Stores would not accept Hackintoshes – not their problem. And if something's not working after all the hassle? Too bad, we had a 4GB RAM, 5400rpm drive iMac for you at $2,999 – It Just Works. But thanks for spending $99 on our system.

 

[GrumpyTrucker]

I'm honestly now of the opinion that someone at Apple has got the mindset of "the public tolerates upgrading their phones which cost almost the same as a MacBook Air every two years so maybe we can con them into doing the same with their computers." Looking at the build up of cash they're accumulating it's not like they're not in a position to make progress every year with their Macs at least. What does a company need more cash than a small country for anyway? Unless they're planning to invade China or Korea with an army of iBots.

All these Macs that are being reduced in power and effectiveness every year now is saddening. When the 21.5" came out with everything soldered and was less powerful than an Air I was worried, but these new iMacs make me think that they really are building them as cheap as they possibly can, even at the expense of falling behind other vendors, and charging as much as they can because they know Fanboys (don't like that term and it's not the one I was looking for but couldn't think of another right now) will still buy them and come up with reasons why it's the right way to go. I've got a late 2012 iMac (with 128GB of SSD goodness in its 1TB Fusion Drive) so I'm good for a while I think. Whether I'll go Mac or PC next time around who knows.

It was said above that they might listen to 'professional' reviews and maybe back peddle. There was nothing but condemnation of the 21.5" earlier this year but they've just carried on down the same route. I don't think they actually listen to anyone anymore except Jony.

I can't fault the progress they're making on screen technology - 4K and 5k screens built into the desktops is great - but they really need to be matching that inside the machines too. These things aren't cheap - especially if you live in one of the countries who got hit with a massive price hike too - and to skimp on parts to make more money than is realistically needed is just morally wrong. Just my view and I know others will disagree. But unless and until someone from Apple (yes, I know it will never happen) comes out and justifies why they cut the SSD storage to 24GB on the 1TB Fusion and how they think £109/$129 is reasonable to charge for a trackpad, I will continue to assume that their only motivation these days is profit profit and more profit and they now have no concept of keeping the customer happy, just as long as they keep the customer. Or gain new ones. They don't care if we stay with Apple or not, as long as we buy in at least once.

 

[fat jez]

Well, every company is in it to make profit. It's just this level of penny pinching is normally found in struggling companies.

 

[jerwin]

Perhaps someone at Apple looked at sales figures for the iMac 5K Mid 2015, compared it to sales figures for the iMac 5K 2014, and was suitably impressed. They counted up all the people who didn't recognize that a 7200 rpm hard drive is a false economy, and planned the late 2015 models accordingly.

I recall paying 2.2K (including 5 percent tax) for a 3.5 Ghz 1TB fusion, m290x imac. It is a fine computer.

I can buy, from Apple, for 2.3 K before taxes, (2.4 K total). a stock imac that features a 3.3 Ghz i5, a 2TB fusion drive (with full 128 GB cache), and a m395 card..

AFAIK, that $2399 model is just as capable as my present machine, if not more so, and if I wait for a sale, I would be paying about the same. The only question is whether stores will actually stock it, and thus discount it from time to time.

(Now there's really very little point in upgrading, at this point, but the cost of getting a decent imac has not fundamentally changed. And if your budget is a firm 2K, you'll be getting a 24 GB fusion drive for your troubles)

 

[cmward_nyc]

What is also frustrating about my partner's 20.5" iMac is that the 8GB of RAM and the 5400RPM disk are really making it a struggle for her to work, it's simply too slow. At the time she bought it, she had to buy the cheapest model she could get, but as it's a sealed unit, neither can be replaced or upgraded. This is the fundamental problem many will face if buying the entry level machine at its premium price.

I agree its totally unfair that the units are sealed and are very hard, if not impossible, to upgrade. But realistically, you know what you're buying with Apple. You know they are sealed, you know they are expensive, you know you can't upgrade them. Realistically, people should look at all options, from all vendors and see what the best choice is for them. I feel that sometimes people just buy it because its Apple.

 

[cmward_nyc]

do you understand that a consolle usually lasts 4-5 years minimum, right ?
if gaming is so important for you (i have two kids, I know ...) and you are spending $2000 on an iMac (there are more affordable computers out there), i still can't understand how is difficult to buy a consolle, possibly not in the same fiscal year you bought the iMac.
I'm not going to questioning your financial management (mine is a nightmare ), but we all know Macs aren't affordable devices.

Couldn't agree more. If money is a struggle why aren't you buying or considering something that represents better value for money?

 

[cmward_nyc]

I'll give you my situation, I have a family, and I can justify getting a computer for both work, hobbies and my kids. I have limited funds because having kids means you have to spend money on them first, i.e., gymnastic classes can be very expensive, among another activities.

Now there's no way I can justify spending 400 dollars on a console to play games when I'm spending nearly 2k on a computer. I have other responsibilities and playing games falls pretty far on the list of must have toys.

I always get confused and frustrated by statements like this. Times are tough and money is tight, but I need a new phone/tablet/laptop etc. why are you dropping 2k on a computer? I have a hard time justifying spending that much on anything! I don't have kids but I do have the money to spend.

 

[fat jez]

I agree its totally unfair that the units are sealed and are very hard, if not impossible, to upgrade. But realistically, you know what you're buying with Apple. You know they are sealed, you know they are expensive, you know you can't upgrade them. Realistically, people should look at all options, from all vendors and see what the best choice is for them. I feel that sometimes people just buy it because its Apple.

Only if you are savvy enough to realise this. Many aren't. Many buy Apple because they think they are the best and most reliable.

 

[cmward_nyc]

I'm honestly now of the opinion that someone at Apple has got the mindset of "the public tolerates upgrading their phones which cost almost the same as a MacBook Air every two years so maybe we can con them into doing the same with their computers." Looking at the build up of cash they're accumulating it's not like they're not in a position to make progress every year with their Macs at least. What does a company need more cash than a small country for anyway? Unless they're planning to invade China or Korea with an army of iBots.

All these Macs that are being reduced in power and effectiveness every year now is saddening. When the 21.5" came out with everything soldered and was less powerful than an Air I was worried, but these new iMacs make me think that they really are building them as cheap as they possibly can, even at the expense of falling behind other vendors, and charging as much as they can because they know Fanboys (don't like that term and it's not the one I was looking for but couldn't think of another right now) will still buy them and come up with reasons why it's the right way to go. I've got a late 2012 iMac (with 128GB of SSD goodness in its 1TB Fusion Drive) so I'm good for a while I think. Whether I'll go Mac or PC next time around who knows.

It was said above that they might listen to 'professional' reviews and maybe back peddle. There was nothing but condemnation of the 21.5" earlier this year but they've just carried on down the same route. I don't think they actually listen to anyone anymore except Jony.

I can't fault the progress they're making on screen technology - 4K and 5k screens built into the desktops is great - but they really need to be matching that inside the machines too. These things aren't cheap - especially if you live in one of the countries who got hit with a massive price hike too - and to skimp on parts to make more money than is realistically needed is just morally wrong. Just my view and I know others will disagree. But unless and until someone from Apple (yes, I know it will never happen) comes out and justifies why they cut the SSD storage to 24GB on the 1TB Fusion and how they think £109/$129 is reasonable to charge for a trackpad, I will continue to assume that their only motivation these days is profit profit and more profit and they now have no concept of keeping the customer happy, just as long as they keep the customer. Or gain new ones. They don't care if we stay with Apple or not, as long as we buy in at least once.

While your point on gouging the consumer for money is valid, the thought that new Macs are reduced power and/or less effective is ridiculous. While the specs may not meet the expectations of all, these are good desktops. People who buy a 4k or 5k iMac now will get just as much use out of it as your 2012 model, to state any different is just a little bit of an oxymoron.

 

[cmward_nyc]

Only if you are savvy enough to realise this. Many aren't. Many buy Apple because they think they are the best and most reliable.

True. In that case, you would hope people do some of their own research before spending large amounts of money on a product, rather than just buying it because of advertising.

 

[maflynn]

I always get confused and frustrated by statements like this. Times are tough and money is tight, but I need a new phone/tablet/laptop etc. why are you dropping 2k on a computer? I have a hard time justifying spending that much on anything! I don't have kids but I do have the money to spend.

Why do you get frustrated on how others choose to spend their money? Do you know how much money I may have saved up for the purchase, or how this fits in with my professional and family needs, i.e., kids need access to computers.

I agree, spending 2k on a computer is very high hence my frustration over apple's premium pricing but lack of premium components.

I was inferring how spending 2k should not instantly equate into the ability or wisdom of spending an additional 400 dollars for a game console.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I disagree completely. From experience, a Wii U, Xbox One or a PS4 are MUCH BETTER and CHEAPER options for gaming.

I take it you're not a real gamer or you would never say such a thing. Consoles suck. The games are always overpriced, rarely come down in price, usually won't play on the next-gen console and once your old console dies, you're then DONE (can't play the games anymore unless you can find another used console) and typically play at lower resolutions than their PC/Mac versions (the latter can be improved with better hardware whereas console hardware kills old games).

Why play old games? I can't believe some on here have to ask that. Clearly, they aren't gamers and never will understand gaming PERIOD. I'm replaying Grim Fandango (remastered) right now. Why? Because it's been several years and I forgot many of the puzzles and the game is awesome. Why WOULDN'T I want to play it again at some point? I have emulators galore to make sure I can play old C64, Amiga, Atari 800 games, etc. Yes, there are some console emulators for old systems, but newer ones are not so simple and meaningless in most cases considering the PC and/or Mac versions STILL WORK fine (and always will with virtualization and/or emulation or just plain keep working OS to newer OS).

A certain top 5% of gamers want high-end specs and require a PC for that. But they're also shelling out tons of money every year to stay on the cutting edge.

You clearly do NOT GET IT. I don't have some high-end rig right now. Gaming is STILL BETTER for the above reasons and for another reason. CONTROLS. Keyboard and mouse are light-years better than controllers for some games. I can typically use a controller on a PC, but you can't usually use a keyboard and mouse on a console. Try Dragon Age Origins with a controller instead. It sucks.

A console unit costs $300-$450 upfront (and lasts 6 years), then about $150 a year in games. A high-end gaming PC is MUCH MORE expensive.

So you compare a cheap-arse console that is obsolete the day it comes out and typically won't see ANY improvements over the next 5 years of its life other than a larger hard drive or something to a HIGH-END gaming rig when the low-end gaming rig on year 3 of your console's lifespan is as good or better than the high-end PC was on Year 1 (or at least better than the console; how you an compare a $400 computer to a $3000 one anyway? That's what modern consoles are, after all, just cheap computers).

Sorry, but I've spent 100x more time playing games on computers than console in my lifetime. You want 4K gaming right NOW and not in 5 years time? You got it. You can get it for $1200 on a Windows PC if you build yourself. That's an entry-level Mac. THAT is why Apple gets made fun of by Windows people so damn much in gaming circles. And it doesn't have to be that way. An i7 based Mac-Mini with an actual quality GPU could sell for $1200 and be perfectly capable as a gaming rig. What's stopping Apple? Ripping you off for every last dollar is the reason.

 

[prowlmedia]

Just seems like Apple hasn't come out and "wowed" me in a while. I loved the first few days when I bought my watch, but even then the "wow-ness" quickly went away. I guess I've just been spoiled by all the goodies that Apple has introduced in the past and I have always expected them to come out with better and better products.

Just usual greedy human behaviour. We all do it. Why isn't it holographic? Why doesn't it shoot laser beams?

The watch is fantastic... for some people. I use it constantly. Other won't see the need at all.

 

[scott911]

I hate the idea of an all-in-one so haven't been following the imac too much..
But I really don't have much choice anymore for a desktop machine.

why question is about harddrives. Are they user-replaceable without a lot of difficulty?

I tend to keep my machines for awhile - and on nearly all, I think I've replaced the drives - either because I get worried because of a whine, or because i need some more space as time goes by.

 

[prowlmedia]

Why no freaking extended Keyboard I and many designers and programmers need them. It's insane.

the Arrow keys alone are reason enough!

 

[jerwin]

why question is about harddrives. Are they user-replaceable without a lot of difficulty?

I'll let you be the judge... It's way more difficult than upgrading a tower pc.

 

[BJMRamage]

Is it just possible that it's designed this way because otherwise people might forget to disconnect and the battery would burn out far sooner, leading to warranty issues and Apple having to replace a veritable nest of mice?

It's just a thought; the alternate defence is insanity!

I hadn't thought of that. I thought most Lithium ion batteries can remain on the charger without harm. maybe that is wrong. maybe these aren't lithium ion...i can't remember now

 

[scott911]

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+EMC+2546+Hard+Drive+Replacement/15796

ok - found answer - what an absolute PITA...

but at least there's an option to get the job done...

It was interesting to see that how easy it would have been for apple to face speaker's forward - you know towards the actaul user...

Form over function...

 

[bbeagle]

I take it you're not a real gamer or you would never say such a thing. Consoles suck.

There is more than just 1 type of gamer.

If someone enjoys playing Super Smash Bros. on my Wii U with 8 friends at the same time, they are a gamer. They're not YOUR type of gamer, but they're a gamer.

I have a MAME emulator on my mac to play all the 1980s arcade games over and over again.

Gamers aren't solely people running PCs. What you're describing in your life makes up less than 10% of gamers. You're more of a 'hard-core' gamer, which most people aren't. They just want to have fun.

One person can like country music, one person can like heavy-metal rock. It doesn't make one of those people any less of a music lover.

 

[cmward_nyc]

Why do you get frustrated on how others choose to spend their money? Do you know how much money I may have saved up for the purchase, or how this fits in with my professional and family needs, i.e., kids need access to computers.

I agree, spending 2k on a computer is very high hence my frustration over apple's premium pricing but lack of premium components.

I was inferring how spending 2k should not instantly equate into the ability or wisdom of spending an additional 400 dollars for a game console.

You're right frustrated is not the right word, it is none of my business how others spend it and you shouldn't jump into saying should spend another $350 or $400 on a PS$. I just wish folks would not use it as a reason to complain, when all those things are a given really.

 

[garirry]

Are you really saying someone who could afford an iMac couldn't afford a $399 consolle ?
Give me a break ...

What if I need to desperately save like 100$ per month in order to even coming close to being able to purchase a 2K iMac? Sometimes you need to save money.

do you understand that a consolle usually lasts 4-5 years minimum, right ?

4-5 years is about as long as you'd be able to keep your computer under the circumstances of not being really rich. If you want to game cheaply, just get a used Gamecube and a copy of Melee all for $50 and there you go.

 

[cmward_nyc]

I take it you're not a real gamer or you would never say such a thing. Consoles suck. The games are always overpriced, rarely come down in price, usually won't play on the next-gen console and once your old console dies, you're then DONE (can't play the games anymore unless you can find another used console) and typically play at lower resolutions than their PC/Mac versions (the latter can be improved with better hardware whereas console hardware kills old games).

Rubbish. Consoles do not suck. I was a PC gamer but got bored of having to spend heaps of money to try and keep up. I'd much rather spend $400 or so on a console that lasts 4 to 5 years (at least). Your argument applies just as much to PC gamers who are constantly trying to keep up with the latest graphics cards or CPU upgrades or worst of all having to start from scratch with a new motherboard! Those costs dwarf by some margin the cost of entry for console gaming!

Why play old games? I can't believe some on here have to ask that. Clearly, they aren't gamers and never will understand gaming PERIOD. I'm replaying Grim Fandango (remastered) right now. Why? Because it's been several years and I forgot many of the puzzles and the game is awesome. Why WOULDN'T I want to play it again at some point? I have emulators galore to make sure I can play old C64, Amiga, Atari 800 games, etc. Yes, there are some console emulators for old systems, but newer ones are not so simple and meaningless in most cases considering the PC and/or Mac versions STILL WORK fine (and always will with virtualization and/or emulation or just plain keep working OS to newer OS).

You clearly do NOT GET IT. I don't have some high-end rig right now. Gaming is STILL BETTER for the above reasons and for another reason. CONTROLS. Keyboard and mouse are light-years better than controllers for some games. I can typically use a controller on a PC, but you can't usually use a keyboard and mouse on a console. Try Dragon Age Origins with a controller instead. It sucks.

They are better for some games (RTS, FPS) and a controller is better than a keyboard/mouse combo for others (I'd say platform, adventure like Uncharted, and I'd argue RPGs like Diablo III). I loved DAO and Diablo III with a controller. Sucks always clicking ahead of where you want the character to go!

So you compare a cheap-arse console that is obsolete the day it comes out and typically won't see ANY improvements over the next 5 years of its life other than a larger hard drive or something to a HIGH-END gaming rig when the low-end gaming rig on year 3 of your console's lifespan is as good or better than the high-end PC was on Year 1 (or at least better than the console; how you an compare a $400 computer to a $3000 one anyway? That's what modern consoles are, after all, just cheap computers).

Sorry, but I've spent 100x more time playing games on computers than console in my lifetime. You want 4K gaming right NOW and not in 5 years time? You got it. You can get it for $1200 on a Windows PC if you build yourself. That's an entry-level Mac. THAT is why Apple gets made fun of by Windows people so damn much in gaming circles. And it doesn't have to be that way. An i7 based Mac-Mini with an actual quality GPU could sell for $1200 and be perfectly capable as a gaming rig. What's stopping Apple? Ripping you off for every last dollar is the reason.

I don't care about 4k gaming and frankly very few games will have it. To be fair, aside from iOS games, Apple doesn't really push Mac gaming, plus developers don't want to accommodate such a small user base in my opinion. Just look at the new Batman game, Rock Steady was only interested in the console versions and the PC version sucked at launch as is the case with most games coming to both formats

 

[cmward_nyc]

There is more than just 1 type of gamer.

If someone enjoys playing Super Smash Bros. on my Wii U with 8 friends at the same time, they are a gamer. They're not YOUR type of gamer, but they're a gamer.

I have a MAME emulator on my mac to play all the 1980s arcade games over and over again.

Gamers aren't solely people running PCs. What you're describing in your life makes up less than 10% of gamers. You're more of a 'hard-core' gamer, which most people aren't. They just want to have fun.

One person can like country music, one person can like heavy-metal rock. It doesn't make one of those people any less of a music lover.

Couldn't agree more! I hate this elitist PC gamer crap and I'm a former PC gamer!