Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Legal vs Sources/Leaks
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
This was a case of leaking a trade secret to the press.
It wasn't whistle blowing nor did it have any aspects that were in the public interest to know. These are things which should be protected.
Now if Apple were in the process of bringing an asteroid onto a collision course with Earth ... that's in the public interest to know about and the source should be protected. If Apple were dumping toxic waste into cupertino's water system then the whistle blower should be protected.
But why should someone leaking trade secrets be protected?
It wasn't whistle blowing nor did it have any aspects that were in the public interest to know. These are things which should be protected.
Now if Apple were in the process of bringing an asteroid onto a collision course with Earth ... that's in the public interest to know about and the source should be protected. If Apple were dumping toxic waste into cupertino's water system then the whistle blower should be protected.
But why should someone leaking trade secrets be protected?
I can recall many years ago talking to a friend in Australia , who was an IBM salesman. His tech support guy was pulled & sent to the US to be briefed on a new computer line IBM was releasing. The guy was to present it to all of IBM Australia on it's release date. Less than 24 hours before the release the new computer lines was pulled and replaced with the System 34. (You have to be OLD to remember the System 34, followed by the fantastic System 38. Read up on the System 38 and it'll blow your mind.)
The fact is that large companies (and Apple is a large company) have some very strict legal responsibilities, especially when it comes to the SEC protecting shareholders. Insiders providing information on a "potential" product can impact the price of the shares and people buying shares based on that information can be harmed if it isn't delivered. Asteroid hasn't been delivered, neither has an Apple PDA. It could well be that Asteroid was, like the PDA, a product in the labs that will not be delivered, or will be delivered in a totally different format.
Apple is probably acting under their responsibilities as set forth by the SEC and they are considering that responsibility a serious matter. If that leaves us with only our best guesses then we can live with that - some are pretty good. And there are always the elevator pictures.
The fact is that large companies (and Apple is a large company) have some very strict legal responsibilities, especially when it comes to the SEC protecting shareholders. Insiders providing information on a "potential" product can impact the price of the shares and people buying shares based on that information can be harmed if it isn't delivered. Asteroid hasn't been delivered, neither has an Apple PDA. It could well be that Asteroid was, like the PDA, a product in the labs that will not be delivered, or will be delivered in a totally different format.
Apple is probably acting under their responsibilities as set forth by the SEC and they are considering that responsibility a serious matter. If that leaves us with only our best guesses then we can live with that - some are pretty good. And there are always the elevator pictures.
Nope. This is lame. Apple waits until the very last second to let you know what is coming out. NO other company does that. Its a stupid practice. Screws alot of people out of machines they normally would have waited a few more days for. Its a scam to sell more stuff, thats all.
I don't care about the shareholders. I am the consumer. I want hardware thats up to date and I want info when it will be out so I can plan for it. Umm, what other company has news sites that give live feeds on hardware releases. Talk about holding a sandwich in front of a starving man.
I don't care about the shareholders. I am the consumer. I want hardware thats up to date and I want info when it will be out so I can plan for it. Umm, what other company has news sites that give live feeds on hardware releases. Talk about holding a sandwich in front of a starving man.
Now, my friend, your education is complete. Businesses, including Apple, disagree with your opinion. The consumer does not matter on his own. The consumer is only relevant as far as the shareholder wants him to be. If the shareholders were to unite and demand what you want with the threat of the Board being voted out (I don't believe Steve has a majority of the shares), then there may be those changes. But, until then, Apple is enjoying profits which in turn, I enjoy as I watch my portfolio grow in value.MacTruck said:
So, you should go out and buy a majority holding in Apple.
nbs2 said:
Or stop buying apple products. The consumer is the most powerful group in the equation.
Go ahead. Stop buying Apple products. I dare you. Because frankly, I don't care.MacTruck said:
That is what Steve would tell you in white text in his letter that is sent in response (he would be aware of the corporate image and send you a message that he appreciates your concern and your comments help make the company better). Consumers are the source of funds for every company. The masses are the consumers for many products, especially from Apple. He would not deny your assertion about that. But, apparently enough people don't care about product cycles and announcements to give Apple reason to stop and reevaluate it's decisions.
Rarely do the masses truely unite behind a boycott idea. It happens, but rarely. If you believe you can take on the machine that is Apple, go ahead. I'll still be buying Apple products while you hunt for drivers on Linux or anti-viruses on Windows.
Bringing this back into the original issue. Yes there are a handful of people that NEED to know when the next build of 10.4.7 is seeded. But most don't care, and don't bother with sites like MR unless they have an issue with their machine and find it while looking for a solution. After that, they go on their merry. But, when an Apple employee or other fiduciary discloses confidential information, the corporation is at risk - no matter how many people see it. Of course the more that see it, the worse it is...So, while you NEED to know when the MB is going to be released and all of its specs, you are under no obligation to buy their products. When the fiduciary NEEDS to leak secrets, Apple is under an obligation to me, and other shareholders, required to find the rat.
DKZ said:
It could change the share price, which could well break SEC rules. Breaking SEC rules can get you jailed - the board, not the workforce.
Study Business
Having read everything up to this point, it is quite obvious that a number of people need to take a business law class and get a clearer understanding of business.
Regarding business concerns vs. consumer concerns: it is true that Apple needs customers. It just does not need every customer. Apple for the past 30+ years has been quite successful at the way they do business. And I suspect that Apple has been around longer than many on this forum have been alive.
Having read everything up to this point, it is quite obvious that a number of people need to take a business law class and get a clearer understanding of business.
Regarding business concerns vs. consumer concerns: it is true that Apple needs customers. It just does not need every customer. Apple for the past 30+ years has been quite successful at the way they do business. And I suspect that Apple has been around longer than many on this forum have been alive.
DKZ said:
Because it might stop people buying the MacBook Pro and wait for it instead. It takes Apple a while to ramp up production, so sales could take a nosedive for a few months, which is not good for their financials.
In fact, that's exactly my situation at the moment: I'm deciding whether to get a 15" MacBook Pro or wait for the 13.3" MacBook that AppleInsider has revealed.
The 13.3" MacBook (iBook replacement) is likely to be cheaper, so by spilling the beans (albeit not as completely as some Think Secret specs in the years past) they've cost Apple some margin.
Oh well, they'll survive, and I'll get a cheaper laptop!
nbs2 said:
You need to check your portfolio more often. Generally speaking, this year, it's been heading down. I have a feeling there is more bad news ahead too.
The word "roadmap" has played a big part in the Apple lexicon as of late. If they want to win business users Apple need a "roadmap" of their own, not a steady stream of surprises. The company is showing serious signs of being permanently stuck in artsy-fartsy mode. Not something businesses want to be based on.
Stock Chart.
macb said:
An Apple product road map is only important to a company who own future development depends on Apple's product road map. I do not believe are too many companies out there who are basing thier future product releases on any computer company's next PC. What most companies worry about when it comes to computers is will they be around tomorrow and will they continue to support their products. Everyone knows Apple support for both hardward and software is far the best and beyond industry standards. The real issue they always had was will they be around tomorrow.
This still weighs on peoples minds, many wonder if apple will move out of the hardward business all together and become a software/media services/ipod company.
Plus, a road map for a PC/Mac is simple, they will be faster, bigger storage, more memory, and better display, this has not changed in 30 yrs, Moores Law has laid out the road map and it is easy to follow.
nbs2 said:
First, I would not assume this information is coming from Apple employees. I know of two note worthy examples. 3 month before the Mac II Ci came out a picture of the system and logic board showed up on the front cover of Rumor Magazine (the name now slips my mind) and as it turned out it was third part software developer who leaked the information. Needless to say the person was tracked down, lost their job, and was blackballed from every working with any Apple third party.
The next example was a contractor at Apple who came across the 2 yr internal product road map for the PowerBooks and leaked the information to the rumor mills. he too was tracked down and was blackballed.
Most of this rumor stuff is coming from channel partners and third parties to Apple. Not to say some information is not come from internal sources.
nbs2, I agree with you that Apple must do everything in their power to protect trade secrets, otherwise the run the risk that in the future when something really important happens the courts will not find in their favor due to past non due diligence on their behalf. A good Trade Secret lawer will say you must treat everything as a trade secret (even the Lunch menu, to quote O'Grady) otherwise, the courts my feel like you didn't care. perfect example, Apple took the GUI from Xerox and then 10 yrs later Xerox tried sue and the judge throught it out since the didn nothing for 10 yrs.
nbs2 said:
While I don't agree with you about the merits of Apple's lawsuit against the ISP (It seems contractory to say that the ISP is liable for O'Grady's actions), corporations are only beholden to their shareholders. They are the owners and with the sale of stock, comes certain and explicit expectations that the company will do all it can to protect the shareholders investment. Even if it means that the consumer is somehow 'screwed'.
michaelb said:
A good example of this would be the original Osbourne computer. THey came out with a great product then announced that an even better product was on the way. Sales plummeted and the company died.
asphalt-proof said:
Yes, but a similar configuration is already available with the Mini and entry level core Solo/ Duo wintel laptops have been out for months. Everybody knows its coming and nobody is going to buy a machine they already know is obsolete. Apple is just late to the party.
michaelb said:
Well no matter what, you're buying a laptop, win for apple right? I'm pretty sure that the share of the Macbook pro buyers that would have bought a macbook instead, had it been here, is very slim, people know that a iBook replacement is around the corner, not only people reading rumor sites, every idiot can figure out that the iBook will make the same transition as every other line, and the lesser idiots can figure out that it'll come before the schools has to buy new hardware. So just give us a ****ing date, a spec or something.
Most hardware manufactures in the pc world lets everybody know what there doing the next 10 years, and they don't fall from the sky because of it. This just a way to make more money of consumers, and in turn, make them pissed.
DKZ said:
Just as an example: Dell could prepare a notebook with identical specs at a lower price (as a loss leader) and announce it one hour before the MacBook is announced, explicitely stating that Apple will not be able to match that offer. That would be damaging.
As Dell doesn't know the specs, they will need a few weeks to react to whatever Apple does.
gnasher729 said:
Not at all dude, you can get plenty of laptops that are cheaper and better then apples, but none of those has Mac OS X, people buy apple for Mac OS X. For most people its only a choice of Apple vs Apple not as in your example Apple vs Dell.
Dell doesn't care what Apple do, Apple has something like 2% of the computer market, and thats all their computers, Dell has far bigger competitors then Apple. And Apples main focus is Mac OS X, whereas Dell does nothing else but hardware.
The few people that count on the hardware to make a choice between a Mac and a PC is plain stupid anyway, and they present such a little share of consumers, that they are in no way worth the risk of pissing off all of the faithfull Apple buyers.
sushi said:
Well, I'd think it would be obvious really, but we can take it once more for you. Those you mention will go out and tell the public what they have in store for the consumers in the future, we already know now Sonys playstation 3's specs, from Sony mind you.
AMD, Intel, Nvidia and ATI has already now proclaimed what the next two generations of GPUS/CPUS will be like, and around when we should expect them. There is not many others then Apple that goes this far in the quest for secrecy.