Even if you were correct (you are not), imperfect 5x zoom beats no 5x zoom every time.
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Apple Lining Up Periscope Telephoto Lens Suppliers for 2022 iPhone
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Sure, if you don’t mind poor autofocus as a trade off, which is apparently the price the S20 pays for including such a huge camera just so it can boast about them in marketing posters.
Galaxy S20 Ultra Review—Overhyped and outrageously priced
The 120Hz screen is the best feature, but it’s also for sale to other OEMs.
arstechnica.com
Those other phones have regular lenses (for "smaller job") that are just as good as the ones in IPhone. In addition they have super zoom. IPhone is a clear looser here.
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It has nothing to do with super zoom. Your are shifting the goal posts due to lack of arguments.Sure, if you don’t mind poor autofocus as a trade off, which is apparently the price the S20 pays for including such a huge camera just so it can boast about them in marketing posters.
Galaxy S20 Ultra Review—Overhyped and outrageously priced
The 120Hz screen is the best feature, but it’s also for sale to other OEMs.
The loser is the "imperfect" implementation. Do something as good as possible or don't do it at all is the way Apple implements features. Other phones just slap it on or in.
Have you seen the ultra in action? Zoom levels set equal Samsung at the very least equals iPhone pro’s image quality, if not best it in many scenarios. Don’t just take my word for it, many reviews echo the same.
Once you up the zoom it’s no competition. Samsung hasn’t scarified in implementation. Many are still stuck in the past Apple glory days, thinking Samsung still stamps out phones like the early galaxy series. Time has changed.
FYI, my father has the ultra20 and he loves his camera.
I only have Ars Technica’s review to go by.
Good that there are people out there enjoying their Samsung phones. They (and Samsung’s product design philosophy of throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks) just isn’t for me.
As the first batch of Android phones with periscope lenses have shown; computational photography will need to advance further in order to produce good images or video with such a tiny amount of light making it to the sensor. I am inclined to think that Apple is waiting because of software limitations as much as or more than hardware or product planning.
“If your main reason for buying a new phone is the camera, then maybe you should just buy a camera.” Dieter Bohn of The Verge gets it right here. Any iPhone and many Android phones are amazing cameras in that we always have them in our pocket....but for people who have the resources, a proper camera still is the way to go.
“If your main reason for buying a new phone is the camera, then maybe you should just buy a camera.” Dieter Bohn of The Verge gets it right here. Any iPhone and many Android phones are amazing cameras in that we always have them in our pocket....but for people who have the resources, a proper camera still is the way to go.
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I only have Ars Technica’s review to go by.
Good that there are people out there enjoying their Samsung phones. They (and Samsung’s product design philosophy of throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks) just isn’t for me.
Never said 100x works great. Don't think there are any reviews that state so as well. Even the extremely glowing reviews fault the 100x image quality. But it is clear that the Ultra20 greatly benefits from its optics when it comes to any optical zoom over 2x relative to the iPhone pro.
As for Samsung's philosophy I am on your side, hence I still rocking an iphone. That said it has worked either way. Sometimes the throw everything against the wall approached worked for Samsung. On the other hand, Apple certainly had times where it held on to certain features for too long before implementation and sometimes the implementation weren't even all that great.
Have you actually seen good computational photography in action? There is no software or hardware limitations. It's simply a matter of Apple delaying the introduction of leading edge camera features.
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This won't be true even if you use a bigger font. 100x is a digital zoom and digital zoom always has obvious limitations. This has nothing to do with the zoom lens. It also does not degrade the quality of the pictures at regular focal lengths and at the 5x zoom that other phones have and iPhone does not. Super zoom is used for special corner cases anyways. It has its uses even when the PQ is less than perfect. As a counter point, Apple portrait mode also has very poor quality (compared to what one gets from the real wide lenses), yet Apple was OK with releasing this feature even though many consider it a gimmick. They will also release super zoom and at this time other companies will be on their second or third version of the design. But the real losers are Apple customers that are years behind their Android counterparts (the widgets being one ridiculous example) when it comes to getting advanced capabilities.I only have Ars Technica’s review to go by.
Good that there are people out there enjoying their Samsung phones. They (and Samsung’s product design philosophy of throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks) just isn’t for me.
Oh dang, at first I thought this was for the 2021 iPhone. No wonder this article isn't getting a bigger response in the comments. Variable optical zoom would be amazing, but I would caution that non-prime lenses are typically less sharp, have more issues with distortion, and have less light gathering ability—especially when zoomed in. But presumably this would be an additional camera module, right? So the drawbacks are probably fine, especially if it means more zoom capabilities in good lighting conditions. I just don't want it to mess with the current 2X lens, which is actually halfway decent at doing mobile macro photography if you can get the focus to lock close.
Would be cool if it was a 3X but it starts at a longer telephoto so on the long end it's essentially a 9X or something. The X is just a multiplier of the initial focal length. So if your iPhone standard lens is 26mm like the iPhone 11 Pro, you could have your periscope zoom start at, say, 78mm (3X the standard) and go to 234mm (3X 78mm) which would be 9X 26mm. Is it possible to go to 234mm on an iPhone? No clue. What I know from mirrorless/dSLR lens design, however, is that they typically start their telephoto zooms at 70-200 and 100-400. It's also important to keep in mind that these focal lengths are 35mm equivalents, meaning that these lenses wouldn't need to be anywhere even remotely close to as big as a those in traditional cameras, due to the fact that the sensor is a lot smaller.
Kinda curious how they would expect to fit these periscope lenses inside of a folding iPhone? Makes me think that such a device is a lot further down the road. Either that or there will be a place for both devices for some time. Could be a tradeoff between having an iPhone that is also an iPad and more expensive, and having an iPhone that is a great camera. Which would you guys pick? That would definitely be a tricky one for me. The photos out of the iPhone are getting so good that I rarely bring my Sony a7R III with me unless I'm going somewhere that I know I want to make incredible photos. Although with 2020, there hasn't been much travel either. I feel like I have less of a need for a device that is an iPhone and an iPad, but it would be freaking cool.
Would be cool if it was a 3X but it starts at a longer telephoto so on the long end it's essentially a 9X or something. The X is just a multiplier of the initial focal length. So if your iPhone standard lens is 26mm like the iPhone 11 Pro, you could have your periscope zoom start at, say, 78mm (3X the standard) and go to 234mm (3X 78mm) which would be 9X 26mm. Is it possible to go to 234mm on an iPhone? No clue. What I know from mirrorless/dSLR lens design, however, is that they typically start their telephoto zooms at 70-200 and 100-400. It's also important to keep in mind that these focal lengths are 35mm equivalents, meaning that these lenses wouldn't need to be anywhere even remotely close to as big as a those in traditional cameras, due to the fact that the sensor is a lot smaller.
Kinda curious how they would expect to fit these periscope lenses inside of a folding iPhone? Makes me think that such a device is a lot further down the road. Either that or there will be a place for both devices for some time. Could be a tradeoff between having an iPhone that is also an iPad and more expensive, and having an iPhone that is a great camera. Which would you guys pick? That would definitely be a tricky one for me. The photos out of the iPhone are getting so good that I rarely bring my Sony a7R III with me unless I'm going somewhere that I know I want to make incredible photos. Although with 2020, there hasn't been much travel either. I feel like I have less of a need for a device that is an iPhone and an iPad, but it would be freaking cool.
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nothing wrong with the periscope lens on the Huawei phones. Wouldn’t buy a Huawei phone but I can admit they have great cameras.
Yeah what they and Samsung do with periscope lens are great. People dismissing it just because apple don’t have it is what gives apple fans a bad name
Because all the iPhone fans are going to rush over to Huawei phones? Not a big concern of Apple...
(I'm not sure if I've ever even seen a Huawei smartphone)
They won’t, which is something the critics don’t seem to understand. There are close to 1 billion iPhone users for a reason, and my next smartphone will still be an iPhone.
The reason for Apple’s high loyalty and satisfaction rates isn’t just because of stellar hardware or compelling software powering that hardware. Instead, loyalty is driven by the experiences associated with using an iPhone.
And this user experience is something the competition will never be able to replicate. So it doesn’t matter to me when the iPhone gets a periscope lens or widgets or some other feature android phones supposedly have had for many years already. It will come when it will come, and they don’t have to pretend to be sympathetic that users are supposedly missing out on the next big thing.
The point is Apple should reinvent the technology used to take photos. It shouldnt just rely on lens technology, but rather use a lot more computational photography and machine learning to dramatically sharpen zoomed pictures, a bit like what the Google Pixel is doing with computational photography. But Apple should go way beyond the current state of computational photography, and perhaps use AI to completely recomposed the zoomed imaged based on scene and object that AI can recognise.
The Neural Engine needs to be put to good use, not just for some marketing trash.
LoL so "you think you read somewhere?", "You feel that Samsung etc.?", so feelings.
It is fascinating how biased against Samsung you can be.
Most of your comment doesn't even address your suggestion that "Samsung sacrificed the implementation of the Periscope camera for the sake of being first". Well this is mainly because it simply isn't true. When the S20 Ultra launched it had the best Periscope camera on the market, period and they weren't even the first, they were a year late vs Huawei for example. Then the P40 Pro Plus launched this year with 10X optical zoom and took back the nr. 1 spot. Who knows, maybe the Note 20 will do the same.
Not only there wasn't anything wrong with the way Samsung implemented the Periscope camera on their phone, but the results it produced were really impressive at up to 30X almost keeping up with dedicated cameras in a lot of instances. I mean the internet is full of reviews so it's not like it's a secret.
Objectively speaking, by the time Apple will implement a Periscope camera in their phones, this tech will be common even on budget oriented Android phones, so it will become cheap enough to be used in such instance. If this doesn't show how late Apple is with implementing this tech I don't know what else does.
I guess my response to this is a somewhat apathetic shrug and a "so"?
First off, the point that it will eventually come to the iPhone means there is little need for me (or many other people) to switch platforms just to get said feature, assuming we even have a need for it at all. It will come when it will come, I will upgrade when I feel it's time for upgrade, and life goes on.
Even if Apple were the first to implement a periscope camera, you all would simply latch on to some other niche feature that some android phone in the market has that the iPhone doesn't, and hold it up to anchor criticism that the iPhone is lagging behind.
So what if Apple is first or not first? Not really seeing what the fuss is all about really.
Well if it doesn't matter to you, why did you feel the need to rant on Samsung and write a huge apology style post in order to defend apple?
Most likely because the criticism Apple receives regarding the Zoom range is valid.
And nobody said you or anybody here should give up their precious iphones, they were just pointing out at what's possible now on other phones and suggesting that Apple should pick up the pace and match them in zoom.
Apple has been stuck at 2X optical zoom for 4 years now, so it's not unreasonable to ask for more than that when it's obviously possible from a technological stand point.
That's just a moot point. It's funny that now you are trying to suggest that users here are complaining that apple is not the first(and that's the main problem) when they are actually just disappoint that Apple is dead last and holds off on implementing this tech for no apparent reason.
Which is why apple know they can get away with this. They know people will buy anyway so why should we bring features out early when we can keep delaying things because people will buy the devices.
Rumours of no 120hz this year is a poor in 2020 but here we are that’s what likely happen. Holding back features when they don’t need to just isn’t defendable. Even if people buy the devices anyway. Moaning about it certainly doesn’t make you any less than an apple fan but being ok with it when you are paying 1k+ isn’t acceptable
Which then begs the question - whoever decided that the next iPhone had to have all these features? Or else what?
This to me is what I find problematic with so much of the tech commentary going around. There is too much focus on specs and not enough on the user experience. There is not enough of “how does one use this product to get more out of technology”.
The way I prefer to analyse Apple is to first start with Apple, and then I analyse the industry that Apple operates in. Instead, what I see a lot of people still doing today is that they just treat Apple as any other company. But Apple does a lot of things differently, and if all you are doing is simply compare Apple to everyone else and then go “Hey, Apple isn’t following what everyone else is doing, so I don’t think whatever Apple is doing is going to work”, I think you are all going down the wrong path.
And honestly speaking, I do feel you are all overhyping certain features just because the iPhone doesn't have them (and particularly because you all know the iPhone doesn't have them). I won't say no when the iPhone does get them, but I won't hold off on an iPhone just because it lacks them either. There's always something newer and shinier around the corner.
It all started last year when many in the tech community thought that having a 5G smartphone in 2019 was a necessity. Well, the iPhone 11 launched without 5g and still did very well. Based on how things have been trending, it’s conceivable to launch a flagship smartphone in 2020 without 5G and still be okay, sales-wise. Especially when we know that a 5g modem is going to significantly increase the cost of the final product, even if your area is not 5g ready yet (and may not be for another couple of years).
Let's put it this way - how many S20 units do you think Samsung has sold so far, given its high price tag, the lack of 5g adoption, and a global pandemic? This feels like a product marketed more towards carriers and less towards consumers.
Meanwhile, the Apple Watch continues to take off, and it actually appears to be getting less competition over time, but you will never hear the people here give it the recognition it deserves. In reality, I think that wearables will end up being the next runway success for Apple, even as the critics continue to be blindsided by smartphones, and what Apple is (and evidently isn't) doing in this field. Samsung choosing to double down on folding phones could also be interpreted as them knowing they have little hope of competing in the wearables field.
So to me, it feels premature to argue that the next iPhone is doomed just because it won't sport a certain feature or two, without seeing the entire package and value proposition. Contrary to how some may make it sound, I am not being locked inside a walled garden against my will, dying yet unable to leave. If I get a new iPhone later this year, it will be because the total value proposition is greater than a competing android smartphone with a periscope camera and 120hz refresh rate and whatever other feature it may have that the iPhone doesn't.
Rather than say that the iPhone is crippled, or that Apple is milking its users just because it lacks a periscope camera or 120hz refresh rate or some other buzzword of the month, why not instead take a step back and analyse just why Apple not only has close to a billion active iPhone users, but also enjoys high loyalty and satisfaction rates amongst them?
As such, I would argue that Apple is not defined by any one product, but rather, by the process that has led to Apple having a cohesive ecosystem of products and services. To put it another way, Apple uses its design-led culture to sell devices capable of fostering a superior experience that users are willing to pay a premium for. It sounds like a load of hot air, until you look at the consumer electronics industry in general and realise that this is a phenomenon that is growing increasingly rare by the moment.
I don't know if I am making sense or not, and I somehow ended up typing all this from what was originally meant to just be a few sentences. I concede that perhaps I may have been a little to quick to dismiss the periscope camera as a gimmick just because it's Samsung doing it, but part of my frustration goes back to my initial premise. Start with Apple, then work your way to the other competitors in the industry if you want to be able to analyse Apple properly. Not the other way round. Else, you will read Apple wrong every single time.
LoL, nobody said Apple is doomed.
People have just expressed their disappointment in the fact that Apple hasn't really improved the quality of their zoom when you go past 2X or haven't offered more than 2x when it's obviously possible. Even with the Pixel 4, when you go past it's 2x optical range it produces better results than the iphone 11 pro, and the Pixel 4 is Google's first phone with a telephoto camera.
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