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cool. higher power consumption and worse latency for... *checks notes* more genmoji and bad notification summaries.
Not an Apple apologist by any means but hot take - I like the notification summaries and find them useful. They have only been incorrect a handful of times for me. But it's like 90% accurate in my experience.

It's especially useful when my SO is pissed and sends me essays and I need a quick summary to ignore the rest.
 
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AI this, AI that... such an overused term nowadays. AI fatigue is and has set in...
Even I am tired to see this term every day, but this tech is absolutely the future.

Having a device being able to recognize Textual, Auditive and Visual information, and being pretty damn good at programming and mathematics, and being able to manipulate it from one media to another, allows so many new opportunities in technology.

The vast majority of people that are not in the world in tech underestimate where it will lead us in 5 years from now, but it's a far cry from where we are now.
 
Do you really think that is what will happen? :)
Sounds good to me (modular computers where components can be upgraded should be able to last longer), but I don't know it this is something Apple aims for. But I'll be happy to be wrong.

There were “rumors” of the Mac Pro getting Apple interpretation of “discrete” Apple silicon GPu support. Pushing back on the modular design.

I imagine the Mac Pro will be the centerpiece and then trickle down over the years.
 
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An easy way to make it easier to run AI models on the device would be to just add more RAM, like how the OnePlus 13 comes with 24 GB of RAM. But perhaps Apple demands more... courage. :apple:

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(seriously, how is Apple putting in so much work just to avoid giving people more RAM in a phone 🤪)
 
Yeah… I think the dots aren’t being connected right on this one. Moving the memory from one top of the SoC to beside the SoC makes it thinner. Which is exactly what you’d want if you were trying to make a phone incredibly thin. And you’d want your phone to be incredibly thin if it’s going to be folded in someone’s pocket.

2026 is the rumored introduction of the foldable iPhone and I’d bet that’s the real reason for this move.
 
Doesn't packaged memory offer significantly reduced latency though?

The story shifts as it suits Apple. If now separate RAM is better, it will be better. If it does hit latency, something else will be talked up as far more important that just happens to work with exactly what Apple decides to do here.

"8GB RAM is enough for just about anybody" right up until Apple went 16GB and now Apple is not stupid for "forcing" 2X the RAM on all those anybody's who don't need it. What? They do need it now? How convenient that Apple has happened to just adopt it as the new base.

When the goal posts need to move, they move... and rationalization right with it.
 
As long as it has enhanced "forgetting" to keep my personal data safe, I'm in.
 
Basically, Apple is re-inventing PCs. This could be the start of user swappable RAM, SSD and potentially discrete GPUs.

To stay competitive in AI development, they'll need to keep RAM and GPU on the chip. The days when I considered swapping an advantage are over.
 
Doesn't packaged memory offer significantly reduced latency though?
No. This rumor started during the hype train of initial M1 mac releases, but it's not apparent in any actual objective measurements. The Apple community repeats the rumor breathlessly, and IMO, it's a bit embarrassing. The M1 has similar latency than an Intel processor with off-package RAM. And a modern M4 has slightly worse latency than a Zen 5 with off-package RAM.

At best, on package RAM just means that the memory connection can operate at much lower power states for the same latency, which is great, but this article implies Apple will offset losing the lower power states with PIM technology.
 
This is nuts because I’ve been saying I want Apple to do this on Macs so we can upgrade our RAM again and Apple’s line has been that RAM in the SOC is way more performant

Now I’m hearing it’s not!!?? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills
That’s been the dream. Performant RAM or not I’d rather have enough of it (and the ability to resolve the issue if I don’t).
 
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The article is very poorly written. The RAN in current iPhones is not just on package, it is stacked on top of the SoC. If they want to increase the pinout they would need to move the RAM off the SoC. But of course it would remain on-package. The biggest challenge is the package size. All smartphone manufactures stack DRAM on top of the SoC because the space inside the phone is very costly. Maybe what the article refers to are the Apple patents describing mounting RAM on the other side of the logic board, on the opposite side of the SoC. This could enable larger RAM pinout without increasing the package size, but it would make the assembly thicker.
 
This is nuts because I’ve been saying I want Apple to do this on Macs so we can upgrade our RAM again and Apple’s line has been that RAM in the SOC is way more performant

Now I’m hearing it’s not!!?? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills
Latency and bandwidth characteristics change as new versions the RAM and processors are upgraded. It could very well be (in fact I think it was demonstrable) that when they began this, it WAS of great performance benefit. For RAM and processors AT THE TIME. With newer faster RAM, that needs more parallel connections to the SoC to achieve that speed, it may no longer be the benefit it once was.
 
Interesting. This will be a rare reversal for Apple away from integration in spitting out the RAM from the PoP package.

I wondered if the fan-out memory used in the Vision Pro for bandwidth would also go anywhere else
 
Not an Apple apologist by any means but hot take - I like the notification summaries and find them useful. They have only been incorrect a handful of times for me. But it's like 90% accurate in my experience.

It's especially useful when my SO is pissed and sends me essays and I need a quick summary to ignore the rest.
I am imagining SO wants to send you a message. SO writes something which is short and to the point... Then asks an AI tool to expand it into an essay which is what SO actually sends. Then you get it summarised by AI...
 
This is nuts because I’ve been saying I want Apple to do this on Macs so we can upgrade our RAM again and Apple’s line has been that RAM in the SOC is way more performant

Now I’m hearing it’s not!!?? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills
It's not like they're going back to sticks of RAM, folks, take a step back

It's moving from Package ON package like on every A series before this, to packaging the RAM separately but very close to the chip, like the M series already does, this is not ON chip it's beside chip but it's still so integrated upgrades are unfeasible outside of niche rare shops that are willing to resolder, but you take risk in doing so.

MRaEdmLgCuoBSthFiAwrfT.jpg



Further, any of their RAM speed attributed to this was already attributable to LPDDR's soldered signal integrity which allows higher clocks than socketed DDR. No one who has claimed any magic about "unified memory" or being on the same substrate like this has been able to show a lick of difference in latency or bandwidth from LPDDR operating at the same speed and bit width. In fact their GPU RAM access latency is only middling.


"But the wires are shorter" - which is great for lowering transport power a bit! But electricity travels so fast in wires this length it's expressible as a fraction of c, the speed of light, the RAM and SoC negotiate latencies in nanoseconds, which would not be changing even 1 if any from this difference. The speed of unified memory is from LPDDR and then going wide on the bus, the memory on package reduces transport power a bit from LPDDR.
 
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This is nuts because I’ve been saying I want Apple to do this on Macs so we can upgrade our RAM again and Apple’s line has been that RAM in the SOC is way more performant
This won't help upgradeability in Macs. It's LPDDR memory that has to be surface-mount soldered, wherever it is. There have already been YouTubes showing that you can upgrade the RAM in an M-Series - which is soldered to the SoC package - if you're equipped to do surface-mount soldering (99.9% of people aren't). Until recently, there was no such thing - for Mac or elsewhere - as a user-upgradeable LPDDR module.

There is now a new LPCAMM standard which does allow for user-upgradeable press-fit LPDDR5x RAM modules - I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Apple to implement that, though!

Anyway, sounds like the issue is space on top of the processor chip which is where the RAM is stacked in iPhones - M-series Macs may have the RAM mounted on the SoC package but it is mounted alongside the processor die, not stacked on top. Obviously, a Mac - or even an iPad Pro - doesn't have quite the same space constraints as a Phone.
 
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Apple is reportedly planning a significant shift in its iPhone hardware design by transitioning to discrete memory packaging to enhance on-device AI performance.

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Samsung, a key supplier of Apple's memory components, has begun research to accommodate the change at Apple's request, according to a new report from Korea's The Elec. The shift will mark a departure from the current package-on-package (PoP) method, where the low-power double data rate (LPDDR) DRAM is stacked directly on the System-on-Chip (SoC). Starting in 2026, the DRAM will instead be packaged separately from the SoC, which should significantly improve memory bandwidth and enhance the iPhone's AI capabilities.

The current PoP configuration was first introduced in the iPhone 4 in 2010 and favored since then for its compact design. Stacking the memory directly atop the SoC minimizes the physical footprint, which is especially important for mobile devices where space is at a premium. However, PoP packaging imposes constraints that limit its suitability for AI applications, which require faster data transfer rates and more memory bandwidth.

With PoP, the size of the memory package is constrained by the size of the SoC, capping the number of I/O pins and therefore limiting performance. Moving to discrete packaging will allow the memory to be physically separated from the SoC, enabling the addition of more I/O pins. This design change should increase the data transfer rate and the number of parallel data channels. Separating the memory from the SoC also provides better heat dissipation.

Apple has previously used discrete memory packaging across the Mac and iPad product lines but later shifted to memory-on-package (MOP) with the introduction of the M1 chip. MOP shortens the distance between the memory and the SoC, reducing latency and improving power efficiency. For the iPhone, adopting discrete packaging may necessitate other design changes, such as shrinking the SoC or battery to create additional space for the memory component. It may also use more power and increase latency.

In addition, Samsung is reportedly working on next-generation LPDDR6 memory technology for Apple, which is expected to offer two to three times the data transfer speed and bandwidth of the current LPDDR5X. One variant under development, LPDDR6-PIM (Processor-in-Memory), integrates processing capabilities directly into the memory. Samsung is said to be collaborating with SK Hynix to standardize this technology.

The changes could appear beginning with 2026's "iPhone 18" devices, providing Apple can overcome engineering challenges related to SoC miniaturization and internal layout optimization.

Article Link: Apple Looking to Fundamentally Change iPhone Memory Design to Enhance AI Performance
Apple: Hey folks, we've got this crazy idea... By separating the RAM from internal SOC chiplet modules we will be able to create a revolutionary-evolution in computer memory technology: external, modular RAM...

By utilising the latest in RAM technology, we will finally be able to free the RAM from it's SOC shackled prison and separate the RAM from the CPU thereby creating the world's first Stratified-Dedicated RAM... (hereinafter SD-RAM.)

And boy have we patented it!
 
This is for the A-series chips, not the M-series chips.

As others have said, it may be a physical issue. More ram = more power = more heat. I expect heat is the real driver here.
 
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