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Maconplasma

Cancelled
Sep 15, 2020
2,489
2,215
Those insurance premiums go up. Then Apple winks at consumers. We pay up.
I run my own business. I know the terms and conditions of E&O. It doesn't work like Car insurance where premiums go up from multiple car claims. With E&O's you're buying an amount of insurance such as a $2 million policy per calendar year (which is for small business) which covers claims. Please do yourself a favor and understand business insurance rather than spouting out misinformation.
 
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rjohnstone

macrumors 68040
Dec 28, 2007
3,896
4,493
PHX, AZ.
In software, this does seem a tad stupid, though. Scaling software is so trivial - who is capable of building worthwhile software but then finds that distributing it to customers is too daunting? Hardware is a totally different beast.
Not all software patents can be packaged up for sale. Some are just pieces of a bigger picture. Important pieces, but still not a standalone product.
Manufacturing a patent has never been a requirement to hold one. There are a lot of patents that are registered, but yet to be implemented.
 

hot-gril

macrumors 68000
Jul 11, 2020
1,924
1,966
Northern California, USA
I have some novel ideas for how fridges should work. I don't build fridges though. I have no intent to ever build a fridge. I don't want to build a multinational fridge-empire that takes on Samsung and LG and the rest.

I should be able to sell my ideas to those companies. Patents are how I can do it.

If I patent the idea and nobody does it for a few years, but then somebody picks it up, am I not entitled to something? You'd label me a patent troll, but it was my idea that I worked on for a few weeks. I'm the engineer who thought of it - I just didn't have the resources* at my disposal to bring it to market and distribute it worldwide at a cost customers would accept.

In software, this does seem a tad stupid, though. Scaling software is so trivial - who is capable of building worthwhile software but then finds that distributing it to customers is too daunting? Hardware is a totally different beast.
Patent trolling doesn't just mean patenting something you don't make. It means making patents, usually as vague as possible, with the sole intention of later suing companies that accidentally "violate" them. They never sell the patents, only sue. And they pick the courts that will treat them best, usually in Texas. It's been this way since the 90s at least.

I agree you should be able to invent things and never make them, instead selling the patents, and that right has to be defended. But when it comes to non-UI software, few ideas are novel, and almost always the entire value is in the execution. I don't know if companies ever buy software patents with the intention of using them. In Big Tech, patents are more for ammo in court in case another big corp goes after them.

So yes, if someone is sitting on software patents, chances are they're a troll. Not necessarily, but probably.
 
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LawJolla

macrumors regular
Sep 29, 2013
194
1,318
The "patent troll", patent law "expert" peanut gallery is equally hilarious and moronic.

In your utopia, to defend a patent, the patent holder must have a business that practices that patent...?

I know this will be hard for you... but think. What could be the unintended consequences of such a requirement?
 
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69Mustang

macrumors 604
Jan 7, 2014
7,895
15,043
In between a rock and a hard place

LawJolla

macrumors regular
Sep 29, 2013
194
1,318
The problem is these companies often patent concepts that are trivial or obvious to any first year software engineering student, then extort companies when they happen, by pure chance, to come up with the same idea on their own.
The problem is these patents are not trivial or obvious (of course, non-obviousness being a bar to patentability). Patent examiners, juries, and judges have all adjudicated that the patents ARE not obvious.
 

LawJolla

macrumors regular
Sep 29, 2013
194
1,318
I have some novel ideas for how fridges should work. I don't build fridges though. I have no intent to ever build a fridge. I don't want to build a multinational fridge-empire that takes on Samsung and LG and the rest.

I should be able to sell my ideas to those companies. Patents are how I can do it.

If I patent the idea and nobody does it for a few years, but then somebody picks it up, am I not entitled to something? You'd label me a patent troll, but it was my idea that I worked on for a few weeks. I'm the engineer who thought of it - I just didn't have the resources* at my disposal to bring it to market and distribute it worldwide at a cost customers would accept.
Great job illustrating the unintended consequences of hamstringing "patent trolls."
 

LawJolla

macrumors regular
Sep 29, 2013
194
1,318
I agree you should be able to invent things and never make them, instead selling the patents, and that right has to be defended. Though, when it comes to non-UI software, few ideas are novel, and almost always the entire value is in the execution. I don't know if companies even buy software patents with the intention of using them. In Big Tech, patents are more for ammo in court in case another big corp goes after them.
If they're obvious and/or not novel, you can motion the USPTO for reexamination and submit your prior art. (Seriously.)
 

waveman

macrumors regular
Jul 23, 2015
132
77
I'm very happy with this. Apple is not doing anything different, and soon will be chasing everyone who's biting a real apple publicly without paying fees to Apple.

As for the law, we need another one, which panellises Apple for preventing user from repairing every single bit of hardware in their computers.

***holes.
 

dazed

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2007
911
211
The money they save from not giving people chargers with the newest phones will help pay this bill ?
 

oneMadRssn

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
5,978
13,990
The problem is these companies often patent concepts that are trivial or obvious to any first year software engineering student, then extort companies when they happen, by pure chance, to come up with the same idea on their own.

This isn't about some complex algorithm that took years to develop being stolen by Apple. This is just some NAT-hole punching for peer to peer VVoIP communication.

There's plenty of legitimate patents out there; this one was a pure scam though.
Apple has spent literally millions trying to prove this patent is not novel, and is obvious. They haven't been able to.

Also, these patents aren't just out of nowhere for the purpose of litigation. They came from SAIC, which has done a ton of work with the NSA and IBM on network security. These are bonafide inventions, and there's no good reason Apple shouldn't pay a proper reasonable royalty.
 

Carnegie

macrumors 6502a
May 24, 2012
837
1,984
I don't care if they have to pay ten times what they owe -- can we PLEASE do whatever's required to restore peer-to-peer FaceTime? FaceTime has been downright terrible in limited bandwidth situations since the switch.

I agree that the patent in question is pathetic, but please!
This judgment isn't based on FaceTime. The findings of infringement by (the 2013 redesigned) FaceTime were overturned as the relevant claims were invalidated. This judgment in only based on (the 2013 redesigned) VPN on Demand. The relevant claims which it was found to infringe have also been invalidated, but there isn't a final decision on the PTAB invalidations yet because VirnetX's appeal is still before the Federal Circuit.
 
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