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Apple Loses Major Tax Dispute in Europe, Must Pay Ireland €13 Billion

bLackjackj said:
Its not illegal Tim, you're right,..but it most definitly is immoral.

Since Tim took over, Apple has become a money hungry slave to its shareholders and lost every ounce of the innovation that Steve himself brought to Apple.
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While you are at it, look up how much debt Apple had with Jobs in charge vs. how much debt Apple has now. Technically, there's what is called "smart money management" in play behind accumulating this debt... but Jobs was very anti-debt (and Apple certainly seems- like Casinos- they could finance their initiatives out of cash flow instead of debt) but Cook has been willing to pile on the debt anyway... and now "rich(est)" Apple Inc. has a massive debt obligation. If you look at only the graphic and not the dates, can you tell when Cook took over? (rhetorical: it's dramatic).

Is that good or bad? It depends on how one wants to spin it. Cases can be made both ways (and we're not talking leather vs. silicone vs. fine woven cases here), but look it up and see the shocking number if one doesn't already know it.
 
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Ironically, if Apple had not tried to “get creative” with their accounting then Ireland would have gotten very little in taxes. The 0.05% (or 1%) they got was technically on profits made elsewhere that were funneled through the Irish subsidiaries (so a small piece of a MUCH bigger pie). Now Ireland is getting a big piece of that pie. Ireland wins.
 
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djphat2000 said:
What do you think will happen? If costs of doing business goes up. That cost is passed to the consumer when they purchase.

And yes, I am for any corporation to pay their fair share of taxes. I fully get the requirements for doing so. All should pay what they owe. However, I don't agree with (because I don't think the EU should have such rights over sovereign countries in what that country wishes to charge ANY company) the EU in doing this or being able to do this. Whatever Ireland "owes" to the EU, they owe and should get that however they need to do so. If they wish to tax people more than corporations, that's on them. If they wish to tax corporations more or less. That should be on them to do so. They should get to figure out how they generate it and pay whatever they owe to the greater EU. And of course how they manage taxes within their own country to take care of roads/schools/healthcare/etc.

I don't think its right to have the EU (effectively but not the same as the US Fed) come in and change/alter any tax agreements any country has come up with, within its borders for its citizens and corporations (foreign or domestic).
So say the EU wants 10% of any countries GDP. Say Ireland had a GDP of 100B Euro's. So 10B Euros is owed to the EU. However they wish to come up with that, should be up to that country.

But, Rock on EU. Do you!
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Ireland agreed to follow the EU's rules when they joined. If a member country doesn't like the EU's rules, they are free to leave. That's what the UK did.
 
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djphat2000 said:
However, I don't agree with (because I don't think the EU should have such rights over sovereign countries in what that country wishes to charge ANY company) the EU in doing this or being able to do this.
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The European Union is a common market with (to some degree) harmonised taw law. Companies - just as well as countries like Ireland - benefit hugely from that common market. But it does require them to give up some sovereignty.

It’s not dissimilar to the Union of States in North America with its capital Washington D.C.

If Ireland doesn’t want to be part of it, they can leave - their neighbours just did.
 
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djphat2000 said:
What do you think will happen? If costs of doing business goes up. That cost is passed to the consumer when they purchase.
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Not entirely true. Costs are passed on to three groups: The shareholders (in the form of reduced profits = lower stock prices), the employees (as in reduced raises and/or layoffs) and to the consumer (in the form of raised prices). It is not an automatic that only the consumers suffer increased costs to corporations.
 
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JordanCautious said:
A quick Google search says Apple has $60B in cash on hand. I don't know if it counts the Escrow account in that number but thats like 1/6th of their available cash. This is actually kinda insane.

I just know Tim has been stressing about the EU all year lol. USB-C, App Store, and now this. Tough
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They are lucky it's not 30%
 
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All those €200 for +8GB RAM and €150 for +128GB Flash ended up being state aid for Ireland!
 
They courted locations specifically to get the best deal. If you get offered something that lets face is, is too good to be true, do not be surprised if it comes back later to haunt you.

I just hope the court announced this by saying:
"We're really excited to have an all new judgement for you, and we think you'll love it".
 
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Apple already collected this from their customers and way more than it actually. They would have anticipated this verdict and would have recovered it in their business long back. This is almost 8+ years old case! Apple become $3+ trillions now! Consumers started seeing very high price Apple products in the recent 4-5 years purely due to this reason may be! May be, more law suits awaiting!
 
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Prof. said:
Can’t wait for them to pass that off to the consumer. 🙂
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The money has been sitting in a dedicated New York bank account for many years awaiting the outcome of this case, so it won’t come from current Apple funds. Not sure if it would directly affect the cost/margins of any of Apple products. Time will tell — if Apple does have to pay it to the Irish government in the end, of course.
 
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sw1tcher said:
I'm sure someone will say Apple should pull out of the EU.

Or just raise prices across the EU for all pruducts to make those in the EU pay for this. Call it the CTF (Core Technology Tax Fee)
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There is already an IREXIT cry. 😂 But it was a win-win situation for IRE all along.
 
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Robert.Walter said:
He’s paid not to admit that Apple got preferential tax rates and treatment for setting up its European HQ in Cork Co Ireland, and this location plus other income shifting strategies saved Apple a bundle over the years.
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Well yes. But maybe a eloquent response would be more fitting
 
GrayFlannel said:
There is already an IREXIT cry. 😂 But it was a win-win situation for IRE all along.
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The so-called IREXIT cry is very faint here. Some people are making some noise but, in general, Irish people are mostly happy with being part of something much bigger than our older and long-standing relationship with our neighbouring island. Time will tell, of course. The open borders of the EU are causing some backlashes in many members countries.
 
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