The ‘everyone else is doing it’ excuse shouldn’t cut it anymore. Tax the crap out of these unscrupulous companies!
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Loses Major Tax Dispute in Europe, Must Pay Ireland €13 Billion
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
To the naysayers, told you so 5-6 years ago, not here to pat myself on the back.
There were lots of people back then against Ireland/the EU, I told them, let's wait and
see, you can't fool the EU.
There were lots of people back then against Ireland/the EU, I told them, let's wait and
see, you can't fool the EU.
This is commonly stated but flawed logic. It makes the assumption that Apple can just increase prices without any adverse effect on sales. Apple will already be selling their devices at the highest possible price the market will bear - if they could have increased prices and profit then then would and should already have done so. Counter-intuitively, if cost of goods increases, it's sometimes necessary to actually reduce retail prices to increase sales volumes to maintain profits.
Given that the Irish government don't offer companies like Apple tax incentives, I can't help wondering why so many multinationals push much of their global finances through the country.
You might thoroughly read the ruling. Apple sought a selective advantage which Ireland granted.
CURIA - Documents
curia.europa.eu
Oh you can, you just need to make sure money ends up in the politicians pockets. Later on they will refuse access to SMS, delete them and claim they can't remember what happened.
Because Apple lowers the price based on the taxes they are not paying instead of pocketing the money they make with their high ticket prices.
Ireland has just over 5 million inhabitants, which is about 1.2% of the total population of the EU and has a GDP per capita of $103,000. This makes Ireland the richest country in the EU after Luxembourg.
This small miracle of a previously impoverished island has been helped by such tax savings for large companies from outside the EU.
To conduct all EU business from Ireland and thus save massive amounts of tax is very lacking in solidarity on the part of the Irish.
Fortunately, that is now a thing of the past!
Sure there is corruption in the EU, but I think it is by no means as bad as for instance the US.
Apple has been building in Ireland long before the European Commission existed.
This cocaine snorting human trafficking passport selling mafia who rule the European Commission came long much later and decided they would like to stick their nose in between Apple and the Irish government so they can fill their pockets with billions of dollars of free money.
They will take Apple's money and will not spend that money on anything except for their own interests. They will give it to their own business friends.
And since the European Parliament is being gradually taken over by rightwing actual nazis those people will always demand some of that money which means you will get even more nazis.
Thinks before you make demands.
Nope. Tax strategy is not tax evasion. More spin.
Bullocks. Your spin is incorrect. Tax strategy is not tax evasion. That’s spin.
The richest company in the world uses tax dodging techniques to almost pay nothing. It does not get more rotten than this.
I can sympathize with individuals doing this, what do we get for our tax money anyway? But the richest, most valuable company in the world? Screw them.
Stock should take a noticeable hit from this. It probably won’t, though.
I can sympathize with individuals doing this, what do we get for our tax money anyway? But the richest, most valuable company in the world? Screw them.
Stock should take a noticeable hit from this. It probably won’t, though.
ding ding ding... we found butt-hurt Irish
If we are sharing links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_as_a_tax_haven
As for why Ireland is so lovely - maybe because so many Poles moved there?
This is always an odd right wing talking point. The idea they can just pass any cost along is laughable. Companies price their products to maximize revenue. The more they charge the fewer units they sale, the less they charge the more they sale. The line isn't linear and it's called price elasticity. They've done the math and the price to units sold ratio is max profit for them. Raising the price just lowers their sales and if they raise it past the current pricing they reduce profits. If they could just charge more then they would have already. They are already charging the most they believe they can without hurting the bottom line. If that equation works out to where the new price would hurt them then yes, they will just reduce their profit margin and absorb the cost. That's a fact.
Doesn't mean it's not tax evasion either by the way.
Nope. Tax strategy is not tax evasion. More spin.
Bullocks. Your spin is incorrect. Tax strategy is not tax evasion. That’s spin.
I don't know the legals of this case but it wasn't the EU upfront forcing a change in law post facto. They sued in a court of law, with the world watching the judge's+court's every move, and the court passed a ruling. It could have gone either way but the judges and the court decided that EU laws had been broken. I find it amusing that anyone here have both the legal knowledge of law, EU laws and documentation of the case to really say with any credibility that the ruling was technically wrong. It took years for multiple legal teams and investigations to get to this point.
Doesn’t mean it is. So don’t say it is or isn’t if you (not you personally) don’t really know.
To be clear, Apple didn't "dodge" taxes. They paid the taxes in the US (at a higher rate than they would have in Ireland) instead of the EU in accordance with international tax law. Apple uses the Double Irish tax strategy to delay paying taxes in the US, not to avoid taxes in the EU.
The Double Irish arrangement is still legal and traditional consists of two separate subsidiaries. Apple still uses it. The "special arrangement" was simply Apple asking Ireland if two branches of the same subsidiary would also qualify. The new arrangement had minimal tax advantages over the traditional Double Irish.
Vestager flat out lied about the ".05% tax rate" which she deceivingly computed by dividing tax by revenue instead of profit. And the recovered amount is based on revenue that would have been taxed in the US instead of the EU if Apple had simply continued using the traditional Double Irish arrangement.
The Double Irish arrangement is still legal and traditional consists of two separate subsidiaries. Apple still uses it. The "special arrangement" was simply Apple asking Ireland if two branches of the same subsidiary would also qualify. The new arrangement had minimal tax advantages over the traditional Double Irish.
Vestager flat out lied about the ".05% tax rate" which she deceivingly computed by dividing tax by revenue instead of profit. And the recovered amount is based on revenue that would have been taxed in the US instead of the EU if Apple had simply continued using the traditional Double Irish arrangement.
Last edited:
Apple can try raise prices in Europe. But than people might rather buy a Samsung Flip-phone, like the people in Korean dramas are always using.