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Elliott

macrumors newbie
Sep 14, 2001
2
0
This is great news. Apple needs to be brought down to earth. Their laptop sales will start to fall off soon. There prices are just so far off any more.

I think the new MacBook are nice except they offer too little of what people really want. Who needs a milled aluminum case! People will not go green if cost more, sorry that is the truth! It does not have the connectivity of much less expensive laptops. The Mac mini is at least $100 dollars over priced.

With all there success lately Apple think it can do whatever it what and I hope this sobers them.
 

VoR

macrumors 6502a
Sep 8, 2008
917
15
UK
The question is why certain chipsets work with certain audio controllers, and the reason is simple: because the audio people design to the chipset, rather than to the standard (because it is cheaper and easier), and then post FAQs about which chipset you should use with that particular device.

hmm, does the thought ever occur to you that big companies that employ tonnes of highly skilled guys can be incredibly incompetent and get things wrong?
They're also pretty likely to make decisions based on nothing but saving a couple of cents and who treats them to the biggest nights out.
 

robanga

macrumors 68000
Aug 25, 2007
1,657
1
Oregon
This is great news. Apple needs to be brought down to earth. Their laptop sales will start to fall off soon. There prices are just so far off any more.

I think the new MacBook are nice except they offer too little of what people really want. Who needs a milled aluminum case! People will not go green if cost more, sorry that is the truth! It does not have the connectivity of much less expensive laptops. The Mac mini is at least $100 dollars over priced.

With all there success lately Apple think it can do whatever it what and I hope this sobers them.

Pretty much the entire world is being sobered at the moment...Watch the news :) ( or surf the news etc.)
 

matticus008

macrumors 68040
Jan 16, 2005
3,330
1
Bay Area, CA
hmm, does the thought ever occur to you that big companies that employ tonnes of highly skilled guys can be incredibly incompetent and get things wrong?
All the time. But the question is, is there a big company here that's gotten something wrong? And if so, which one?

If it's the computer-side chipset maker, then you would expect the bus reset problem to affect other types of 1394 devices, other types of isochronous mode devices, or at the very least, all real-time audio devices. You would further expect that the offending product would be quietly pulled or replaced, or that computer companies would purchase from other vendors, reducing sales, rather than the continued strong sales that Agere seems to enjoy.

The problem instead is that the audio device 1394 controller triggers a bus reset when communicating in isochronous mode on some units of some models of audio devices. Now, the computer side 1394 controller in essence doesn't know that it's receiving audio (just data that it passes along), so it would be very difficult, bordering on impossible, for the computer side to have an audio-only bug on the bus. The place to look, absent any other information, is the manufacturer of the audio device's 1394 controller, or to the audio interface feeding data into it. It's also possible that both sides are compliant, and this is just one of those "what are the chances" things (like when your neighbor's garage door remote opens your door). What seems unlikely based on the given information, though, is that there is some special problem with Agere chips that affects only audio devices and nothing else in isochronous mode.
 

Squozen

macrumors regular
Oct 9, 2003
140
123
I blame the glossy screens and focusing on consumers rather than Apple's established professional base.

...or maybe that's just my sour grapes because Apple no longer make a laptop or consumer desktop that I would want to buy.
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
In November, Mac desktop sales were down 38 percent while Windows desktops fell only 15 percent.

Could this possibly be because Apple's desktops are unexpandable and use laptop parts for poor performance? Maybe if they had the same expandable towers with high performance parts that Windows users have access to at reasonable prices they wouldn't be losing all that desktop ground.... No no. That can't be it! Steve knows best!
 

xrayzed

macrumors member
May 22, 2005
83
0
Dumbest quote I've read here in a long time. Go back to your koolaid man.

No one is waiting on Snow Leopard and probably not even for new iMacs either.
I am.

If the iMac receives a decent upgrade next month and isn't stupidly priced I'll buy one. If not I'll be waiting till Snow Leopard. And I might not buy then either...

In next year's bad economy, people are going to be looking for value and something not just disposable in a couple years. And Apple is going to take a serious beating for their arrogance.
True, which is why I may defer upgrading in 2009. While I'm prepared to pay a premium I have my limits.

Unfortunately Vista is such a dud of an OS that upgrading my desktop with another PC isn't a particularly attractive alternative. Keeping my creaking XP box & iBook going one more year is an option.
 

localoid

macrumors 68020
Feb 20, 2007
2,447
1,739
America's Third World
...
The audio manufacturers have an opportunity to participate in the engineering of the standard. They have an opportunity to create their own standard interface. They have the opportunity to design around the problem.
...

Right. You just learn of this problem today and then spend 60 seconds reading one source of information on a subject that's been tossed around online in great depth for over a year now and you immediately come to the conclusion that the problem is caused by the audio manufacturers.

Can you cite even one credible online source that's reached the same conclusion as you have?
 

Eraserhead

macrumors G4
Nov 3, 2005
10,434
12,250
UK
Can't wait for Windows 7 to crush Macs. :p
I'm kidding guys, don't flame me. ;)

Maybe it will, it`ll be interesting to see anyhow.

The article is missing that the Windows OEM market only grew a very small amount as well due to them having approximately equal sales of laptops and desktops (though laptops are probably slightly more popular).

So although Apples growth has been neutered completely it hasn`t done much worse than the market.
 

xbjllb

macrumors 65816
Jan 4, 2008
1,379
262
This thread is full of the usual rations of baloney from armchair CEOs.

Even if these forecasts turn out to be accurate (which I personally doubt)...

And full of the usual rations of baloney from armchair fanboi PR flacks too, I see.

Reality: These are forecasts, and for only one month.

Reality: Apple has been growing their Mac shipments at ten time the rate of the Windows PC industry for the last couple of years.

Reality: This growth rate occurred on the basis of the current Mac product lineup.

Conclusion: The idea that Apple must completely revamp its approach to selling Macs is not based on reality.

Just how much Apple stock DO you own?

:apple:
 

Henri Gaudier

macrumors 6502a
May 4, 2005
526
0
France
And you'll need all five. One to use and four to cannibalize for parts.

I don't think so. Apple's build quality is widely agreed to be getting worse and even in the good old days I had an iBook that was always kaput... I got it replaced under the iBook board scheme and it's replacement went belly up one week out of it's warranty. That was 3000€/£2000/$4000 for two years of ownership.
 

BenRoethig

macrumors 68030
Jul 17, 2002
2,729
0
Dubuque, Iowa
Could this possibly be because Apple's desktops are unexpandable and use laptop parts for poor performance? Maybe if they had the same expandable towers with high performance parts that Windows users have access to at reasonable prices they wouldn't be losing all that desktop ground.... No no. That can't be it! Steve knows best!

I wouldn't call it poor performance. I'd put it a bit higher at slightly above mediocre. For the lower to middle end consumer (aka "Best Buy") market, The two 20" inchers and the entry level 24" serve their needs pretty well. The problem is Apple's insistence to push them on those with higher needs
 

wolfpackfan

macrumors 68000
Jun 10, 2007
1,547
16
Cary, NC
It is for consumers. :rolleyes:

Exactly. I have been wanting to get a Mac for a long time now, but I just refuse to pay Apple's ridiculous prices. Yesterday, I went out and bought an HP with 3GB memory, 350 GB hard drive, Intel Dual Core processor, 19" wide screen monitor and a HP printer for $599. You can make all the jokes you want about Microsoft and Vista, but the fact is for the average user like me it works just fine. Maybe someday when Apple wakes up and realizes that there are only so many people in this world that can afford their high prices they will drop them and start selling more units.
 

Philter

macrumors member
Jul 6, 2003
40
2
What brand do you buy now?

I build my own. Built 2 computers since the summer, one music production tower and the other an HTPC for the living room. For both systems Apple did not offer an appropriate system at a competitive price, and for the HTPC they really don't offer anything. That MacTV thing is a sad joke compared to what you can do with a standard Vista install.

Each system cost less than half of what a Mac with similar specs would have cost, and the horror stories about other operating systems ended up being overblown and mostly untrue- I did prefer OSX to the alternatives, but in practice I found that the difference in convenience did not come close to justifying the price premium. Vista has turned out to be a wonderful surprise for an HTPC system, completely contrary to everything I expected.

I do give Apple credit for upping the ante and forcing Microsoft to improve their products. But I was a rabid Mac fan from 1994 till 2008, and they have completely dropped the ball as far as I am concerned.
 

Me too

macrumors newbie
Dec 15, 2008
3
0
Switzerland
Flat sales in a tanking economy where sales everywhere else are plummeting? That's excellent news, no?

That is very good news indeed, no layoffs no part time and still good service, even sweet deals. The force producing the macs abroad is not getting cheaper either, they are healthy suppliers of a healthy system.
I think that Apple is going to take the presidential inauguration as a platform to introduce change, a computer system. At least thats what i would do if I were an Apple: i'd plant Apple trees of change in millions and millions of willing brains around the world. Harvesting their business will be a pleasure.
 

mutantteenager

macrumors 6502
Feb 26, 2006
258
0
Earth to Apple?


The Mac mini is particularly outdated with the last update delivered over 16 months ago.

This is proof that Apple operate in a complete vacuum. What kind of b*lls**t computer manufacturer thinks they can sell the SAME product for 16 months at the SAME price?!

I got bored of waiting for a new Mac Pro and made myself one instead - and yes it works perfectly. I didn't shed one tear that it didn't have a shiny metal box with a logo on, because I needed it at the time and Apple were dragging their feet.

Apple deserve to lose business refreshing their products 'whenever' they feel like it. That same arrogance allowed Quark to be trashed by Indesign (price vs performance/features).

I trust the zealots will comeback with some twisted logic to vindicate Apple, however a more productive use of their time might be to join the Church of Scientology.
 

matticus008

macrumors 68040
Jan 16, 2005
3,330
1
Bay Area, CA
Right. You just learn of this problem today
Says who? I haven't cared to research specifics in the past because it hasn't affected me personally or professionally. Tracking down the source of this alleged "bug" isn't difficult, and again, that information paints a picture. Bus resets have nothing to do with audio per se, but simply with data negotiation. This is your first clue.

I do have a lengthy track record of dealing with standards bodies and implementation disputes, and it has been influential in discussions on this forum and others. On the other hand, you have submitted nothing to suggest a contrary interpretation. You have also egregiously misinterpreted industry rating systems and displayed a basic unfamiliarity with internal procedures.
then spend 60 seconds reading one source of information
Again, says who?
on a subject that's been tossed around online in great depth for over a year now and you immediately come to the conclusion that the problem is caused by the audio manufacturers.
That's not the conclusion I drew at all. All I am saying is that there is no evidence that the Agere chipset is faulty, and that audio interfaces have a long history of compatibility problems with various 1394 controllers, because they have always implemented based on a reference design rather than the standard.

Consider what is more likely: a bug in a general controller with an otherwise unblemished track record or a bug in a specialized controller? Now, look at the nature of the bug. Does it affect all devices, all devices using the same connection, or even all units of an affected device? If the problem can't be reproduced in other types of controllers or even in other models of the same type, the defect, if there is a defect at all and not just a benign incompatibility, is probably in the specialized controller.

And for your information, the specialized 1394 controllers in question (along with some of the audio interface hardware) are made by many of the same companies as the computer chipsets--so don't even try to accuse me of selecting a side in this ridiculous little battle of yours.
Can you cite even one credible online source that's reached the same conclusion as you have?
Can you cite one credible source implicating Agere based on theory other than "it worked before, so it must be the computer chipset?" I have not yet encountered a credible source making a conclusion of any sort, nor have any alleged an Agere fault as you have. The lack of a detailed inquiry is telling. Why you are so convinced, absent any evidence at all and despite all contrary indications, that it's not the fault of the audio 1394 controller or audio interface, is a complete mystery.

You can find compatibility problem reports for every Firewire chipset manufacturer, including TI, with audio interfaces. In some cases, there are physical errors, such as voltage mismatches. However, and please read the following carefully, because you have continually ignored it: an audio controller sometimes triggering a bus reset in some products using that controller, but no other controllers causing that problem, does not point to a computer chipset problem unless you have other information.

As I have repeatedly requested, if you have any evidence, any at all, please share it. So far all I've received from you is a failure to read and understand.
 

DaBrain

macrumors 65816
Feb 28, 2007
1,124
1
ERIE, PA
No surprise here! Apple removes hardware options from the current line up. They limit choice to Glossy screens only (fine if you like glossy but for the approximately 50% that don't, not good). They completely ignore the mac-mini.

Apple needs better competitive pricing on some of their line ups!

Example: Just recently for the first time in a longggggg time I found a mac-mini in the refurb store for $699! That's just insane!

I was going to buy one for a xmass present IF they updated it! But, Nope didn't happen!

To me this is no surprise! Hopefully things change soon!

Just found 2 Mac Mini-s in the refurb section. Here's one of them:

Refurbished Mac mini 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Refurbished Mac mini 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

1GB memory
120GB hard drive
SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Intel GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 memory

$679.00

Save $120.00
15% off


Apple needs to get real here! I love their products, but prices like this for 2 year old technology is Crazy!!!! This should be selling for $500 tops?!
 
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